Liverpool FC Forum

by **wee_boi888** » Mon May 23, 2005 10:25 am

Taken from www.soccernet.com

Carragher: Treble team better than us

Jamie Carragher claims the current Liverpool side are not as good as the team who won the UEFA Cup in the treble season of 2000-01.
Liverpool's dynamic centre-back, now rightly being hailed as one of the best defenders in Europe, refuses to be caught up in all the hype surrounding Rafael Benitez's shock Champions League finalists.

Carragher will step out in the Ataturk Stadium in Istanbul on Wednesday against AC Milan believing Liverpool still have a long way to go to be compared with Gerard Houllier's best Anfield side.

But he also maintains that the success of this term has been the biggest step forward the club have had since they were last in the European final 20 years ago.

Carragher said: 'No disrespect to the squad we have got now, but it is obvious we are not as strong as we were when we won the UEFA Cup in 2001.

'Back then we had a settled team and that season when we went into games against Barcelona and Roma, we always felt we were as good as them.'

Liverpool that season won the UEFA Cup in Dortmund against Alaves and also showed their strength in depth by picking up the FA Cup and League Cup.

But Carragher now claims: 'I think reaching the European final this season is the most significant step we have taken since the club last won the competition.

'Obviously we are not as good as those great sides in the past, but under the circumstances this run to the final has been as big an achievement as it was all those years ago.'

Carragher still rates the current achievement as something special.

He said: 'We achieved our last good run in Europe three years into the previous manager's reign.

'If the new manager had been here three years and built his own side, maybe what we have done this season would be comparable. But to get to the final so soon into his reign in unbelievable.

'We have got to bear in mind the circumstances this time. We have been up against it with injuries and no-one has given us much chance throughout the competition.'

Carragher's own contribution this term has been hailed from all quarters, but particularly from his own colleagues.

Goalkeeper Jerzy Dudek plays behind the Bootle-born 27-year-old and said: 'Carragher is magnificent for us, he has been the best man on the pitch in every game he has played.

'He already had a lot of confidence. But he has been more dominant this year and is a leader in the defensive line. Being in the national team helped him as well. It was something special and a lift and you can use that in a positive way for your game.'

--

This is the first time I actually thought about it. In depth and consistance I must admit the treble season team was probably better than our current one.

But If both teams played at the best of their ability, I'm adament that our current squad would be better.

Any thoughts?

by **Roger Red Hat** » Mon May 23, 2005 11:23 am

I'm thinking we've definatly strengthened in one area of the team.........

..............The Manager!

The team isn't as strong as the team of '78 but we're still in a European Cup Final! :nod

by **adamnbarrett** » Mon May 23, 2005 12:01 pm

I think the team we have now is better just alone on the manager and the football we play. Looking back we did just hoof the ball an awful lot. Also I can't help thinking that we were lucky because

1. Won the worthington cup on penalties against Birmingham
2. 2 Late goals vs Arsenal when they really battered us (hmm but they showed great character

)
3. An own goal that handed us the uefa cup in extra time after we threw the lead away numerous times.

But it was still a great season!

by **Big Niall** » Mon May 23, 2005 12:03 pm

Neither team/squad is really that good, both did poor in league.

by **Sean** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:11 pm

I thought we looked alot stronger in 2001 / 2002. Only for a dip in form during November and December we could have pipped Arsenal for the title.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:37 pm

The season we had Anelka we were at our best and the end of the treble season. Since then its been poor to be honest. Things should improve next season.

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Mon May 23, 2005 10:56 pm

adamnbarrett wrote:I think the team we have now is better just alone on the manager and the football we play. Looking back we did just hoof the ball an awful lot. Also I can't help thinking that we were lucky because

1. Won the worthington cup on penalties against Birmingham
2. 2 Late goals vs Arsenal when they really battered us (hmm but they showed great character )
3. An own goal that handed us the uefa cup in extra time after we threw the lead away numerous times.

But it was still a great season!

i agree with you mate, i thought we were very lucky at times during the treble year.
everyone remembers the way we rode our luck in the cup final against arsenal but the worthington cup against birmingham was even worse.
we started well and fowler scored a cracker but from then on it was all downhill. they were a lower league club at the time but they certainly didnt look it and in extra time they were all over us - we were the team hanging on for penaltys.houllier was making crackpot substitutions and we had no shape at all. talking of pen`s they had a stonewall pen turned down with about two minutes left on the clock during extra time, but the ref just sh1t out from making the decision.i`m as red as they come but that was a truly awful cop out by the ref.

by **Dalglish** » Mon May 23, 2005 11:39 pm

adamnbarrett wrote:I think the team we have now is better just alone on the manager and the football we play. Looking back we did just hoof the ball an awful lot. Also I can't help thinking that we were lucky because

1. Won the worthington cup on penalties against Birmingham
2. 2 Late goals vs Arsenal when they really battered us (hmm but they showed great character )
3. An own goal that handed us the uefa cup in extra time after we threw the lead away numerous times.

But it was still a great season!

A bit too simplistic to say we play better now and we was lucky in 2001. if my memory serves me well LFC scored 121 Goals that season ....... :Oo:

I happen to disagree partly with Carra on this one, we are a better team in terms of players. Macalister was sublime in 2001 but no match for Xabi Alonso, Stevie G actually played on the right side of midfield in the UEFA Cup final and although a sublime talent hadn't matured to the level he is at today.

Where we were stronger was up front with Fowler, Owen and Heskey all weighing in with their share of goals.

Defensively you would have to go some to beat the back 4 of Hyppia, Carra, Babbel and Henchoz which leaves you the wings currently occupied by Garcia and Riise/Kewell as opposed to Murphy and Biscan !

Its a close call but I don't believe that the LFC team of 2001 would have made the final the way this current side has had to but to be fair to Carra he makes mention of a settled side in 2001 over the injury ravaged side this season....

by **laza** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:55 am

Little premature to be making those type of comparsions before final has even been played.
As for luck , good teams make their own luck , regardless of how lucky the treble team was the trophies are in our cabinent. Just like it wont make a scrape of difference now whether Garcia goal crossed the line or not against Chelsea when we win in Istanbul

by **stapo1000** » Tue May 24, 2005 2:06 am

we averaged 2 goals a game in the treble season and we've scored very prolifically this season. altho we only have baros and cisse this season who've had long stints in the physio room whereas in 00/01 we had owen, heskey, fowler who scored around 60 goals between them

by **A.B.** » Tue May 24, 2005 2:14 am

Dalglish wrote:
adamnbarrett wrote:I think the team we have now is better just alone on the manager and the football we play. Looking back we did just hoof the ball an awful lot. Also I can't help thinking that we were lucky because

1. Won the worthington cup on penalties against Birmingham
2. 2 Late goals vs Arsenal when they really battered us (hmm but they showed great character )
3. An own goal that handed us the uefa cup in extra time after we threw the lead away numerous times.

But it was still a great season!

A bit too simplistic to say we play better now and we was lucky in 2001. if my memory serves me well LFC scored 121 Goals that season .......

I happen to disagree partly with Carra on this one, we are a better team in terms of players. Macalister was sublime in 2001 but no match for Xabi Alonso, Stevie G actually played on the right side of midfield in the UEFA Cup final and although a sublime talent hadn't matured to the level he is at today.

Where we were stronger was up front with Fowler, Owen and Heskey all weighing in with their share of goals.

Defensively you would have to go some to beat the back 4 of Hyppia, Carra, Babbel and Henchoz which leaves you the wings currently occupied by Garcia and Riise/Kewell as opposed to Murphy and Biscan !

Its a close call but I don't believe that the LFC team of 2001 would have made the final the way this current side has had to but to be fair to Carra he makes mention of a settled side in 2001 over the injury ravaged side this season....

I would have to agree with Ian on this one.

The central midfield as already pointed out is far superior than the one we had back then, Alonso and Gerrard absolute world class midfielders and with more time they will create a sensational partnership in center of the park. (They've only played 20 games alongside one another due to injuries/suspensions).

Our back four was rock solid though now that I look how Finnan has improved he might had made our defence even stronger if he had played then.

But yes as Dalglish here said, I don't think the squad of 2001 would had knocked out the likes of Chelsea and Juventus of today.

by **Hamza** » Tue May 24, 2005 9:15 am

just thinkin lets see the treble team and comapre

Dudek/Westerveld- Sander was a great keeper made some great saves when we needed them and set up attacks with a hammer of a kick, but was prone to occansial mistake and was a big communicating keeper. Jerzy can be class gets down low well but as we all know he can also make mistakes i would say Sander just edges him

LB Carra or Zeiga/Troare or Warnock-Carra was an average lb but did give it all when zeiga played there he got some good crosses in and was solid Troare is a natural centre back but can tackle better the Zeiga but his postioning is a problem Warnock is paces and determined but does not always make the tackles he had to i think Zeiga is the best left back out of the four.

CB. Henchoz Hyypia/Carra-Hyypia. This is a tough 1 teble year Henchoz and Hyypia were magnificent the understood each other really well and commanded the backline but carra has been beyond words this season at centre half and hyypia who learnt how to volly and been sound defesivly maybe not as many clean sheet as the treble year but definatly better defending this year we have let in many goals this year due to lack of organisation or swithching off but Carra at centre half is absoulty amazing goes up there as one of the greas of this club even hansen said that so iu wud go 4 carra and hyypia

RB- Babbel/Finnan-bith great Right backs babbel was great and got more goals then finnan does and is more of prsance in the air and is phyically very strong. Finnan has had a great year aloungside carra mister consitant but i think babbel edges it

RM-Murphy/Garcia- Murphy was great from dead balls and had a good shot but never had the pace and trickery and creativity of luis garcia. garica is better

CM- Gerrard-Hamman/Gerrard-Alonso- Hamman and stevie were brilliant stevie was devolping he was hungry he was fast shoot from evrywere and hamman did get few goals himself but- this year Gerrard has just got better and better and devolped into one of the worlds best players and Hamman howver good he is did nothave the amazing passing and infuliance the game like alnso does- gerrard and alnso the better pair.

LM- Smicer, barmby, Berger/ Riise- THis is hard during the treble yer they kept changing but it seems to me that Smicer was the player who played there most Smicer was good occasianly fast but not really a wide man but was fast but too incosistant, abrmby and Berger were class but both did not get the runin the team they deserved.

Strikers Robbie or Heskey-Owen/ Cisseor Baros- Morintes- this is tough in the treble year Heskey was very good got goals and led the line very well Robbie we alllove him and he got the goals when he played toand OWen was just amazing that year. This year baros has shown glimpses of class but recently does not seem to be able to finsh and score enough goals but has shown his pace well, Cisse it is hard to judge but we all know he is a class player who is fast and if he stays fit can be as good as owen, Morintes again is not really fit beaucuse he played no footie most of the seaosn but if he gets fit can be an amazing striker. The treble strikers just edge it beacusse they were more consistant but the new crop could become better wit fitness and match sharpness.

by **azriahmad** » Tue May 24, 2005 11:04 am

Defensively, the 2000-01 treble winning team were much better, because at that time Hyppia and Henchoz with Carra at full back (I can't remember who was the other regular left back) were at their peak, especially the centrebacks despite having the howler prone Sander "butterfingers" Westerveld (he let in so many soft goals like the ones in the UEFA Cup final, that it is amazing that he remained first chioce for so long) and also Hamann and Gary Mac were having an outstanding season.

Also, we did not face the opponents of the highest quality in the UEFA Cup like Juve, Chelski (now) etc. We faced Roma and Barca, but both were not at their best.

The treble winning team would have not struggled so much against Olympiakos or Monaco away from home as the defence was very strong, but the attack (apart from Owen) was not that great either. I would say that we are much more varied in attack now but the defence is not as strong. Also, the midfielders were on better form overall in 2000/01.

by **115-1073096938** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:46 pm

The treble strikers just edge it beacusse they were more consistant but the new crop could become better wit fitness and match sharpness.

Are you having a laugh?

Fowler 17 goals
Heskey 22 goals
Owen 24 goals

This season:

Cisse 5 goals
Baros 13 goals
Morientes 3 goals
Luis Garcia 13 goals
Pongolle 3 goals
Mellor 5 goals

Nuff said.

Defensively, the 2000-01 treble winning team were much better, because at that time Hyppia and Henchoz with Carra at full back (I can't remember who was the other regular left back)

From left to right Carragher, Hyypia, Henchoz, Babbel.

Marcus Babbel is a far far better player than Steve Finnan.

As for Roma not being at there best, they were going for the bloody league title and still to this day looked one of the best sides i've ever seen with the likes of Batistuta, Montella, Samuel, Cafu, Candela, Assuncao, Totti, Delvechio and Emerson. To say at the time they weren't one of the best sides in Europe is complete rubbish.

The treble winning team would have not struggled so much against Olympiakos or Monaco away from home as the defence was very strong, but the attack (apart from Owen) was not that great either. I would say that we are much more varied in attack now but the defence is not as strong. Also, the midfielders were on better form overall in 2000/01.

Unbelievable. We had Heskey and Owen who scored over 20 goals that season, Fowler got 17, Murphys and Gerrard both scored 10. Don't talk such rubbish please.

by **taff** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:54 pm

The treble team knew their system and operated it well, it might not have been everybodys cup of tea but it worked. Arsenal battered us but scored on goal we broke and scored two, our tactic was to break.

I think this season we see the team playing superb to Rafas tactice but sometimes getting caught between the old and the new. Against Juventus and Chelsea we were more like a Houllier team but with the first half like a Benitez team.

I would have to go for the treble team at this moment in time but I assume and hope that this time next year this debate will not happen

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