Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Thu May 05, 2005 1:46 pm

I've just read Taff's post on another thread and it got me thinking. He's made such a good point that I thought it oughta go out it's own so it could be debated.
Forget the Champions League final (yeah right) no seriously, and think of next season. Just think if Gerrard stays and gets back to where he was a couple of seasons ago. Just think if Kewell returns to his best form and does it on a consistent basis down the left. It looks like we're buying a good goalkeeper, Carra, Finnan, Riise, Alonso, Garcia are top quality by any standards. You only need to buy a couple of players and have Morientes/Cisse start to produce, Traore/Warnock continue to improve and Hyypia/Biscan to continue to do a solid job and hey presto, you've got yourself a football team.
Now I know Leon will say "If my granny had balls" etc etc and I'll take that, it's a fair one. But you get Taff's drift, maybe we are not as far away as we think we are. Maybe it will be a Red Dawn after-all. Lets face it, if our manager can win the CL with this lot God knows what he'd do with a really really top team of players.

by **Sean** » Thu May 05, 2005 1:53 pm

Good point. We still need a top class centre half. Hyypia is doing the business in the champions league but thats probabaly because hes getting rested from the premiership so hat he can focus on europe. Next season we'll need a pacey centre half capable of playing 60 games alongside Jamie.

A right sided midfielder is also a priority.

I agree about Kewell. A rejuvenated Harry would make a huge difference.

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu May 05, 2005 2:08 pm

Whilst I agree with the sentiments, I fear some have fallen into the trap of reaching the CL final.

It is a great acheivement, and I am proud beyond proud of the boys (and the fans) for their displays, but as we are Liverpool FC the "bread and butter" is the league.

I would give up the CL final place for the Championship, and our players are currently 33 points from that feat.

We have the core of an excellent squad, and are closer than some people think, but equally we are four top top top quality players from the finished article.

In truth the reason for this is Rafa. He is a genius, and he proved at Valencia that with a few gems and the rest of the team made up of average/good players he can make the team perform to the best of its ability, and he can overcome "money bags" teams capable of buying any player they like. (see Chelsea and Man Utd).

Viva la Rafalution.

by **Santa** » Thu May 05, 2005 2:18 pm

I think the injuries to the key players and new players having to assimilate to English style of football means we are too inconsistent to mount any attack on the top 3 this season.
Next year we will have a stabilised squad, new players will be introduced slowly to get them up to speed. Rafa will be all wiser to English football and the knock-off from winning the CL will give us the spring board to break into the top 3. Winning it? I hoped so but we need a quality squad, not just a few star players.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu May 05, 2005 3:09 pm

Its all been said already, but I really do think that Rafa is the only man that can get us where we want to be. He has addressed every problem in the team (signing a GK?) in the right way, and has the ability to lure virtually any player worth having. What we need (and I don't need to tell you, or him - but I will anyway!) is a big, fast CB who is as good as SH in the air, a top drawer right winger who can take the best LB's in the world on, a good 3rd choice striker who won't whinge if he doesn't play and probably a creative midfielder, as it only takes 1 Lampard tackle to lose a player for 3 months!!! I believe the basic team for next season will include;

Reina (if reports are true)
JC
Finnan
Riise
Gerrard
Alonso
Garcia
Mori
Cisse

If Harry does start playing properly again then he has to be included, and it's either Troare or Warnock unless we buy another LB. Personally I'd go for Warnock as he's a natural LB, whereas Djimi is a CB.(DT has done brilliantly this season, though!)
Never the less, we DO need a winger, but how could we drop Luis Garcia!?! It's a quandry, and I'm glad Rafa is in charge, as whatever he decides will be correct. Up the 'pool!

by **joependo** » Thu May 05, 2005 5:55 pm

Lando_Griffin how can you not put traore in your basic team he has been part of the defence liverpool have had for 8 years so why don't you put warnock and traore in.

by **115-1073096938** » Fri May 06, 2005 2:09 am

Right a while ago, i done a points system, awarded to teams depending on level of players.

6. World class
5. Top class
4. Quality
3. Good player
2. Squad player
1. average player

I'll put three teams down.

United treble winning side.

Code: Select all: Cole Yorke 4 5 Giggs Scholes Keane Beckham 6 5 6 6 Irwin Stam Johnsen Neville 3 6 4 3 Schmiechal 6

Overall: 54/66

Chelsea side of today:

Code: Select all: Robben Drogba Duff 6 4 5 Lampard Makalele Smertin 4 5 3 Bridge Terry Gallas Ferriera 4 5 5 5 Cech 5

Overall: 51/66

Liverpool:

Code: Select all: Morientes Cisse 5 3 Riise Gerrard Alonso Luis Garcia 4 5 5 4 Warnock Hyypia Carragher Finnan 3 4 4 4 Dudek 2

Carragher only gets a 4 instead of a three because he's a Liverpool lad. Warnock is a potential 4. Gerrard and Alonso are potential 6's Cisse a potential 5. Maybe... Maybe i'm being generous. Maybe i'm not.

Overall: 43/66

In my opinion you need to be a 50 at least to be good enough to be regular challengers in the compititions. Obviously your manager would get you extra points etc but that isn't part of the arguement.

We are roughly 3-4 players away. A class striker, goalkeeper and two wide midfielders being the preference. In that order. Heres a minimum for example, (using unrealistic targets maybe.....)

Vicente = 5 (to replace Warnock, Riise going to left back)
Joaquin = 5 (to replace Cisse, Luis Garcia moving behind the front man)
Canizares = 5 (to replace Dudek).

7 more points would take us to that 50 mark.

We aren't THAT far away, however, we are. Depends how you look at it.

by **bedlovedays** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:04 am

Replace Cisse ? Are you mad?

by **bedlovedays** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:05 am

Jc Gerrard and Alonso are world class

by **66-1112520797** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:16 am

stu_the_red wrote:Right a while ago, i done a points system, awarded to teams depending on level of players.

6. World class
5. Top class
4. Quality
3. Good player
2. Squad player
1. average player

I'll put three teams down.

United treble winning side.
Code: Select all
   Cole Yorke    4 5 Giggs Scholes Keane Beckham   6 5 6 6 Irwin Stam Johnsen Neville   3 6 4 3    Schmiechal    6

Overall: 54/66

Chelsea side of today:
Code: Select all
   Robben Drogba Duff    6 4 5    Lampard Makalele Smertin    4 5 3    Bridge Terry Gallas Ferriera    4 5 5 5    Cech    5

Overall: 51/66

Liverpool:
Code: Select all
   Morientes Cisse    5 3 Riise Gerrard Alonso Luis Garcia   4 5 5 4 Warnock Hyypia Carragher Finnan    3 4 4 4    Dudek    2

Carragher only gets a 4 instead of a three because he's a Liverpool lad. Warnock is a potential 4. Gerrard and Alonso are potential 6's Cisse a potential 5. Maybe... Maybe i'm being generous. Maybe i'm not.

Overall: 43/66

In my opinion you need to be a 50 at least to be good enough to be regular challengers in the compititions. Obviously your manager would get you extra points etc but that isn't part of the arguement.

We are roughly 3-4 players away. A class striker, goalkeeper and two wide midfielders being the preference. In that order. Heres a minimum for example, (using unrealistic targets maybe.....)

Vicente = 5 (to replace Warnock, Riise going to left back)
Joaquin = 5 (to replace Cisse, Luis Garcia moving behind the front man)
Canizares = 5 (to replace Dudek).

7 more points would take us to that 50 mark.

We aren't THAT far away, however, we are. Depends how you look at it.

Dont read or take any of that in because that is pure pony

by **LFC #1** » Fri May 06, 2005 6:33 am

Bamaga man wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:Right a while ago, i done a points system, awarded to teams depending on level of players.

6. World class
5. Top class
4. Quality
3. Good player
2. Squad player
1. average player

I'll put three teams down.

United treble winning side.
Code: Select all
   Cole Yorke    4 5 Giggs Scholes Keane Beckham   6 5 6 6 Irwin Stam Johnsen Neville   3 6 4 3    Schmiechal    6

Overall: 54/66

Chelsea side of today:
Code: Select all
   Robben Drogba Duff    6 4 5    Lampard Makalele Smertin    4 5 3    Bridge Terry Gallas Ferriera    4 5 5 5    Cech    5

Overall: 51/66

Liverpool:
Code: Select all
   Morientes Cisse    5 3 Riise Gerrard Alonso Luis Garcia   4 5 5 4 Warnock Hyypia Carragher Finnan    3 4 4 4    Dudek    2

Carragher only gets a 4 instead of a three because he's a Liverpool lad. Warnock is a potential 4. Gerrard and Alonso are potential 6's Cisse a potential 5. Maybe... Maybe i'm being generous. Maybe i'm not.

Overall: 43/66

In my opinion you need to be a 50 at least to be good enough to be regular challengers in the compititions. Obviously your manager would get you extra points etc but that isn't part of the arguement.

We are roughly 3-4 players away. A class striker, goalkeeper and two wide midfielders being the preference. In that order. Heres a minimum for example, (using unrealistic targets maybe.....)

Vicente = 5 (to replace Warnock, Riise going to left back)
Joaquin = 5 (to replace Cisse, Luis Garcia moving behind the front man)
Canizares = 5 (to replace Dudek).

7 more points would take us to that 50 mark.

We aren't THAT far away, however, we are. Depends how you look at it.

Dont read or take any of that in because that is pure pony

how is it pure pony mate?? - give a reason.

it's a pretty reasonable summary if you ask me. You can debate whether this player is a 4 or 5 till the cows come home,but it definitiley shows the side we have at the moment isn't quite League Champins quality yet, but a few players can get us there, which is 100% true.

by **Alonso_Rulz** » Fri May 06, 2005 6:56 am

got to agree with stu this time... some points lacking to be consider a premiership contender... wat if , kewell can find back his best... will he be top class?

by **66-1112520797** » Fri May 06, 2005 9:11 am

LFC #1 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:Right a while ago, i done a points system, awarded to teams depending on level of players.

6. World class
5. Top class
4. Quality
3. Good player
2. Squad player
1. average player

I'll put three teams down.

United treble winning side.
Code: Select all
   Cole Yorke    4 5 Giggs Scholes Keane Beckham   6 5 6 6 Irwin Stam Johnsen Neville   3 6 4 3    Schmiechal    6

Overall: 54/66

Chelsea side of today:
Code: Select all
   Robben Drogba Duff    6 4 5    Lampard Makalele Smertin    4 5 3    Bridge Terry Gallas Ferriera    4 5 5 5    Cech    5

Overall: 51/66

Liverpool:
Code: Select all
   Morientes Cisse    5 3 Riise Gerrard Alonso Luis Garcia   4 5 5 4 Warnock Hyypia Carragher Finnan    3 4 4 4    Dudek    2

Carragher only gets a 4 instead of a three because he's a Liverpool lad. Warnock is a potential 4. Gerrard and Alonso are potential 6's Cisse a potential 5. Maybe... Maybe i'm being generous. Maybe i'm not.

Overall: 43/66

In my opinion you need to be a 50 at least to be good enough to be regular challengers in the compititions. Obviously your manager would get you extra points etc but that isn't part of the arguement.

We are roughly 3-4 players away. A class striker, goalkeeper and two wide midfielders being the preference. In that order. Heres a minimum for example, (using unrealistic targets maybe.....)

Vicente = 5 (to replace Warnock, Riise going to left back)
Joaquin = 5 (to replace Cisse, Luis Garcia moving behind the front man)
Canizares = 5 (to replace Dudek).

7 more points would take us to that 50 mark.

We aren't THAT far away, however, we are. Depends how you look at it.

Dont read or take any of that in because that is pure pony

how is it pure pony mate?? - give a reason.

it's a pretty reasonable summary if you ask me. You can debate whether this player is a 4 or 5 till the cows come home,but it definitiley shows the side we have at the moment isn't quite League Champins quality yet, but a few players can get us there, which is 100% true.

Im pretty sure Rafa doesnt match his team up against others with a tally of points.If it was that easy we would all be mangers.

Also you can take a team of individuals all marked (6 world class)
but that doesnt guarantee you are gonna win the league or the CL as Liverpool have proved that in the CL.

There is one other point i would like to make until the cows come home.

Steven Gerrard is world class.

by **kazza** » Fri May 06, 2005 9:47 am

We just earned 28 million squid for reaching the final. If we can make the CL next year that is another 12 mill. That is 40 million extra (if we can make next seasons CL) that Raffa has to spend. For that you can bring in great players. Now add the money Raffa was promised for the summer, and just like that we can outspend Chelsea, which we won't because Raffa is there for the longhaul, unlike (shhhh) moureen.

I cannot wait to see what gems we will get. I feel at least one world class player (and I do not use this term "world-class" loosely).

by **Leonmc0708** » Fri May 06, 2005 9:57 am

Stu man, how the hell can you advocate playing JAR at left back, he has excelled at left midfield this season, and for that you want top play him left back ? Are you Houllier is disguise ?

Kazza, that 4th place is not as far fetched as some might think.

Liverpool FC Forum

Just think.....

Who is online