Liverpool FC Forum

by **Roger Red Hat** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:04 pm

Big Niall - you need to take a long look at the ****** your posting in this thread. Of course silverware = success you muppet. Any trophey is a good acheivement to win. some more than others, i agree, but all in all the more peices of silver in the cabinet the better.

When Rafa's boys lift the carling cup I'll be the proudest bloke on earth, along with thousands of other true fans. Dont you dare come on here and spout off about our domestic cups - your a disgrace.

:angry:

by **bigmick** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:23 pm

Gotta come in on the side of the big fella here. One or two on this board need to just calm down a bit. While I don't agree with the 'mickey-mouse' phraseiology, broadly speaking the man is talking sense. The league cup IS a day out. A worthwhile day-out which when you get to the semi's you want to win, but a day-out all the same. The F.A. cup IS still the most watched domestic knockout in the world but nobody on here would pretend it has the same magic as it had even ten years ago. The numpty's at the F.A. damaged the competition forever when they allowed Manure to pull out, not defend it and walk the league that year thanks to a mid-season break. Disgusting. You still want to win it, it's great when you do but it's not the league. It's not the Champions League (incidently, neither is the Champions League the European Cup but thats for another board) and until we win one of those, we aren't truly 'back'.
Why is it impatience or glory hunting to say this? The title in the next five years? Possible but only if we have the cash to compete which means we must qualify for the CL and do reasonably OK when we get there. I don't think Big Nialls any more a glory hunter than me. I think like me, he'd like Liverpool to win everything but knows it won't be easy to win either of the big trophies anytime soon. Whats wrong with that?

by **Big Niall** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:29 pm

I never said I don't want us to win it, I won't be disappointed if we beat Manu or Chelsea in the final of coca cola cup, just stating priorities.

People should think before they see rage and start throwing the swear words about.

I too remember the 1986 final and it was great as the double hadn't been done in 15 years and there was no European football, times change though. Manu didn't even bother entering it and even Bolton field a weakened team.

In 2001, one of the foreign players (might have been Hamann) said that the FA cup is for the English players and the UEFA cup is more important to the others.

Winning cups is nice but it won't help you build a title winning team EVER. coming 4th and qualifying for CL will help us win the title in the next 5-7 years.

Why would somebody say that is impatient, I think saying that we need to wait 5-7 years before we win the league after a wait of 15 years already defines patient for a football fan. Get a grip and think first.

by **Big Niall** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:31 pm

jesus, Big mick, you were writing my exact thoughts as I was thinking them, F*ck, I was thinking of my bank pin number too.

by **andy_g** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:51 pm

i agree that the FA cup has become devalued, though i disagree with the reasons why that have been stated here. the FA cup has become devalued, as have the league cup and the UEFA cup by the predominant importance of the champions league. the CL now offers SO much money and takes up so much of the season that it becomes the main focus of the football season throughout europe. i don't think i'd be too far wrong guessing that most teams would be happier to win the CL than their own league.

to me the champions league has too much power and too much focus. it's more or less becoming the breakaway european elite league that was mooted a few seasons back, and it wouldn't surprise me if in 10 years time the european league proper has evolved from the CL competition.

the FA cup is still a massively important and famous trophy, but the CL and the lack of wembley finals in recent years has tarnished it a little. don't get me wrong, i love the CL and i love it even more when LFC are there in the mix, but i would like to see it cut down to the league winners and the major domestic cup winners of each country. less like a league of its own and more like a recognition of proper domestic success. that means that its not going to be the same 4 teams every year, evry now and then a surprise team wins the FA cup who would never even get in the top 4 of their league. the riches of the CL spread out more like this could only enrich the domestic league and make the FA cup, and maybe even the league cup if it was included, a vitally important competition again.

i'm personally in the camp that says 'if a cup is there to be won we should go out and win it.'

by **The Canadian Red Army** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:57 pm

bigmick wrote:Gotta come in on the side of the big fella here. One or two on this board need to just calm down a bit. While I don't agree with the 'mickey-mouse' phraseiology, broadly speaking the man is talking sense. The league cup IS a day out. A worthwhile day-out which when you get to the semi's you want to win, but a day-out all the same. The F.A. cup IS still the most watched domestic knockout in the world but nobody on here would pretend it has the same magic as it had even ten years ago. The numpty's at the F.A. damaged the competition forever when they allowed Manure to pull out, not defend it and walk the league that year thanks to a mid-season break. Disgusting. You still want to win it, it's great when you do but it's not the league. It's not the Champions League (incidently, neither is the Champions League the European Cup but thats for another board) and until we win one of those, we aren't truly 'back'.
Why is it impatience or glory hunting to say this? The title in the next five years? Possible but only if we have the cash to compete which means we must qualify for the CL and do reasonably OK when we get there. I don't think Big Nialls any more a glory hunter than me. I think like me, he'd like Liverpool to win everything but knows it won't be easy to win either of the big trophies anytime soon. Whats wrong with that?

I think we started jumping down his throat, because of the way he said it. He put both the carling cup and the FA cup like we are too good for them. Saying they are "mickey mouse cups" didnt help either.

by **Dalglish** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:13 am

The problem with this thread and the reason why Big Niall has had such a strong reaction to it is NOT because of the "mickey mouse" jibe at the domestic cups, NOT the statement regarding him not thinking we can win the prem in the next 5 years but the almost emotionless and matter of fact way he goes about dismissing some of Liverpool's finest achievements over the last 5 or so years.

If your a fan then in the final analysis it's not actually about winning the title year on year and qualifying for the cash cow that is the CL but the feeling of passion you get when your team takes the field and the history and tradition of this great club.

by **115-1073096938** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:41 am

Dalglish the voice of sense, reason and respectability as ever!!

by **supersub** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:45 am

Winning the league cup was always down the bottom of the "things we have to do" list to be a successful side,until we started winning the comp for fun in the early eighties.At that time our trips to the "Twin Towers" came primarily in the League cup,so it was considered our weekend away before the European Cup Final.

The F.A.Cup was always a coveted Trophy but recently it has been regarded as a Plate competition for those not involved in the scramble for the big prize of 2nd,3rd and 4th in the Premiership(sad isn't it).One theory I have is the irreverence given it by the influx of foreign coaches/players who show the same contempt for their own national cup competitions.
Me....I love going to Cup Finals..have done since 1974 and I would never miss out because it's lost its "sparkle"!!!!

by **Dalglish** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:51 am

I'd put the 2003 Worthington Cup final Win over the Mancs right up there in terms of my experiences of watching LFC.

When I was standing arms outstretched in thre Milennium stadium surveying a sea of flags, banners, scarfs and the incredible noise that 35,000 Liverpool make when they really want to , the LAST thing on my mind was "ohhh isn't this a sub standard trophy "

Fans love finals and the opportunity to celebrate in the intoxicating atmosphere and quite honestly at that moment in time it doesn't matter a feck what the name on the trophy is !!!!!!

by **zarababe** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:52 am

stu_the_red wrote:Dalglish the voice of sense, reason and respectability as ever!!

.. absolutely.. the wise one has spoken sense again

.. oh my goodness I agree with Stu..

by **115-1073096938** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:54 am

Dalglish you're wasting you're time mate. The moron's who don't appriciate that never will because they've never been and are never likely to either. The ones who do understand truely are passionate reds.

I also rate that as one of my best memories of watching Liverpool FC. Battering the Mancs in a cup final...

Classic!!!

by **Dalglish** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:58 am

Hi Stu, thanks for the plaudits mate and the advice.

I try not to get into this "Do you go or don't you " debate but threads like this do lead me to believe many fans are missing the point

Anyway if nothing else it's an oportunity to try and explain the "enigma" that IS watching LFC

Walk on ...........

by **LFCFan4Life** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:03 am

I could care less if it is a Mickey Mouse cup but I would love it for us to win it this year especially after we've been through this season [the injuries,etc...]. It would be a good start for the Rafalution. Whether we play Chelski or Man Utd in the finals, it would be great fo us to win it and just shove it in their faces, especially Chelsea. It would be payback for the game they won which they didn't deserve to win.

by **supersub** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:49 am

Dalglish wrote:I'd put the 2003 Worthington Cup final Win over the Mancs right up there in terms of my experiences of watching LFC.

When I was standing arms outstretched in thre Milennium stadium surveying a sea of flags, banners, scarfs and the incredible noise that 35,000 Liverpool make when they really want to , the LAST thing on my mind was "ohhh isn't this a sub standard trophy "

Fans love finals and the opportunity to celebrate in the intoxicating atmosphere and quite honestly at that moment in time it doesn't matter a feck what the name on the trophy is !!!!!!

quite agree

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