Liverpool FC Forum

by **Redrider** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:57 pm

stmichael wrote:We are not in a bad financial position, we are pretty much in the same position as we have been for the last 5 or 6 years, it's simply because the stadium and a comprehseive rebuild of the squad have have both come to a head in the same season.

Any sensible CE, would recognise this and 'park' the plan's for a new stadium until we have a team fit to grace a new arena.
In any case, I suspect the way we are carrying on, we will be awash with money in the summer when SG finally moves on - as long as Parry does not foul-up another sale !!
I wouldn't trust him to look after that 'lost rabbit'

by **Judge** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:14 pm

jim_morrison_supported_liverpool wrote:
The Return of the Judge wrote:so it would appear that whatever your talking about means everything, and that other folk can't have a say in things??

it is not up to you to determine what is relevant or not. who died and made you god??

if you read more carefully, i said lfc should have taken the money for the good of lfc. the money could then be put to good use, by someone who may have a clue with what to do with it.

i feel that parry n co dont want this from anyone, which is a shame for the club and fans.

i assume you can remember the glory days, wouldnt it be nice to see that again? or are you the one who has tunnel vision

you talk about planets or real world, but i think you must join the human race first, your comments are unwarranted and a little unfair

all i was saying was stick to the point.

we were in disagreement about someting, and you decide to be patronising saying that i amuse you. then you start waffling about something which we were not debating, which had no relevance. there's nothing stopping anyone talking about anything, but its quite confusing when you're debating soething with someone, then they suddenly say that you're chatting sh*t (in a roundabout way) then start talking about something else. i suspect the reason you did this was cos you had no answers for what i was saying.

by the way, i still disagree with what you're saying about the takeover. you are still saying that we should take the investment. and your only reason for saying this is.......cos we need money. you are still ignoring the fact that its not just about money, and you are still ignoring my point that its not cos Parry cudnt give a sh*t about the club (and Moores) cos they've already ploughed loads into this club. do i have to spell it out any more.

can please try and answer without saying AGAIN "i think we should take the money cos we need money to bolster the squad"

what about everything else?

gone to far, i'll leave it at that

cheers fella

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:28 pm

i suppose its hard to get angry with you when you're being so nice.

well done

(you were still chatting sh*t though :laugh:

)

by **JohnBull** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:10 pm

For well over a decade now, we've had a board full of people who enjoy the limelight, who love the cudos of being mates with the players, of sitting in nightclubs and basking in the glow of a succession of dimwitted underachieving players. We've had managers who wanted to be mates with the players and who've wasted the family jewels on a succession of over-rated, over paid no-marks.

The removal of Houllier was a result of player power from the genuine players who ARE there who realised the inherrent weakness in the man who's arrogance could have destroyed the club. At that time there was serious player support for Curbishley and some for MO'N but the job went to Rafa to keep both sides happy as he was not thought to be the type to go screaming at the board, unlike the other two.

I've been VERY impressed with the Rafa revolution and the last thing we need at the moment is another influx of "Superstars". We do need a board committed to the cause and not to their own cushy positions.
The Moores/Morgan fiasco typifies the self seeking nature of the powers in place - just how much has multi millionaire Moores invested in the club ? How much has he received by way of freebees and royal treatment ? Parry has seen millions go out of this club on players who no one could have possibly interviewed before signing because no one in their right mind could spend more than a couple of minutes with these signings without realising they were mercenary chancers who did not deserve a place at this club.

We now have a proper BOSS in Rafa. A man who doesn't seem to want to be mates with his players and I really believe in him I just feel sad that the gang of losers above him haven't got the decency to fall on their swords.

by **JBG** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:23 pm

stmichael wrote:I think the 'normal' supporter doesn't realise what financial position we are actually in. With Sky and the tabloids shouting out about £21m loses and millions upon millions of debt it's not diffcult to see why.

As for my own opinion. I think we have spent our 'standard' transfer kitty for CL years, and everything else will be extra. People forgot how much we actually spent in the summer and buy into talk of "£30m needed, and we have no money for transfer" and other such b******s.

We are not in a bad financial position, we are pretty much in the same position as we have been for the last 5 or 6 years, it's simply because the stadium and a comprehseive rebuild of the squad have have both come to a head in the same season.

From what I have heard and I have an Adobe copy of the club's 2004 annual report on my hard drive, we made an operating loss of £21million last year.

Our overall debt before Xmas was somewhere between £15 and 18million, which isn't huge, and Rick Parry said the club aren't worried about this at all as it is extremely managable and re-payments are maintained: i.e. there are no creditors on our back.

I have a feeling there could be an increase in our debt by a few million but no more this time next year as obviously last year's poor financial performance will have a medium term impact and also we'll see a lot of transfer activity between August 2004 and August 2005. However, our debt shouldn't increase that much as we have lost a big earner in Michael Owen and other players will also leave, like Henchoz and probably Biscan and Smicer. Moreover, the CL money will make a huge difference.

The 2004 annual report illustrated the massive difference CL money makes. Even though we finished 5th in 2002/03 and 4th in 2003/04, we made significantly more in the former season due to our involvement in the CL group stage. People will remember that season we were eliminated by Basle and then played Vitesse, Auxerre and Celtic in the UEFA Cup. We also won the League cup that season. However, the vast bulk of cup money in 2002/03 came from the CL 1st group stages.

We should see a far healthier balance sheet next year as we will have surpassed 2003's CL revenues (perhaps significantly) and the League Cup revenues (probably nothing drastic as some of the profits will go on player bonuses).

The most obvious long term difficulty in the cost of the new stadium, after that the problem of matching the big guns in the transfer market and thirdly, the inevitable problem of a few players like Diouff , Cheyrou and Diao rotting in our reserves or having to be paid off.

by **taff** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:24 pm

Im not too sure I agree with that Mr Bull to be honest, whilst I think we have fallen behind as far as the board goes we are still a rare club that gives total support to the manager and Im sure thats an attraction for Rafa

Chelsea have taken the game to another stratosphere with the money available so its wrong to compare against although you havent in your post but it is in the back of most peoples minds

We have spent money on the managers judgement and during the "treble" season all looked good although we didnt spring forward like most of us thought we would and Houlliers last season - well the lest said the better but we still retained our dignity over the whole affair unlike say Ranieris exit

I wouldnt like the chairman to get too involved as it was Houlliers shout who the players should be and he signed some good ones as well its just the money in the latter part of his spell here undermined all his previous work

If at the end of Jan we havent signed then I will change my opinion but until then Ill keep my support to the board

However I would like to see us become more ruthless with the brand etc than we have been

by **reddippydick** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:22 pm

SouthernScouser

Moores gives money to club and in return he wants a share it the profits (if there are any) but probably more important he wants a say in how its run. I think this is why Parry has not accepted the bid as it means relinquishing some of his power.

Now some have said that Parry has the good of the club at heart but what makes peoples judgment clouded is power, the need to sustain it at all costs.

by **reddippydick** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:24 pm

stmichael

I don't agree with your view that we are in good financial health. I accept yer comments re running in the red is no bad thing but when we may need £40-50m to keep in the top end then we are.

by **reddippydick** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:30 pm

A few of the guys have touched on whether we want success at any cost, well for me yes.

I wouldn't mind being backed with a load of dosh so we can win trophies and if others think not then what is a load of dosh and what is acceptable.

Mancs used to rule the money stakes but now its Chelsea.

What would LFC fans feel if Everton got some rich sponsor and looked set for the top, would we be happy with that, I think not. So while we debate whether to accept who and which bid someone might be setting up another club to rival Chelsea and Mancs so do we miss out cos Parry doesnt want to share his toys?

yer see I don't see Parry as the moral owner of the club, only the custodian. The fans own the club but they have the least say but pay for it all ultimately. So for me Parry and his mates flooked up and need some fresh ideas and if he was such a good guy why isn't he asking the fans what they want or letting them know why he turned down the bid.

Parry isn't here forever and he should remember that and its about time he consulted the fans as to what they want. Do they want to take a deal and be top drawer or do we want to try and do it on the cheap and forget the silverware?

by **mistyred** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:46 pm

Well atleast this is a lively Debate,Firstly Rafa is buying experience that is desperately needed and YES we do need it, Secondly just because a player is 24yrs of age doesn't stop him from having two left pegs.

I find that the manager should be applauded for trying to do the business rather than running a country mile at the moment and believe me there are ALOT of teams that would take our manager without a second glance.

Answer me this one question withought all of Chelsea's money do you think Jose could have made the same Impact and would have taken the job atall?.

by **Redrider** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:49 pm

JohnBull wrote:For well over a decade now, we've had a board full of people who enjoy the limelight, who love the cudos of being mates with the players, of sitting in nightclubs and basking in the glow of a succession of dimwitted underachieving players. We've had managers who wanted to be mates with the players and who've wasted the family jewels on a succession of over-rated, over paid no-marks.

The removal of Houllier was a result of player power from the genuine players who ARE there who realised the inherrent weakness in the man who's arrogance could have destroyed the club. At that time there was serious player support for Curbishley and some for MO'N but the job went to Rafa to keep both sides happy as he was not thought to be the type to go screaming at the board, unlike the other two.

I've been VERY impressed with the Rafa revolution and the last thing we need at the moment is another influx of "Superstars". We do need a board committed to the cause and not to their own cushy positions.
The Moores/Morgan fiasco typifies the self seeking nature of the powers in place - just how much has multi millionaire Moores invested in the club ? How much has he received by way of freebees and royal treatment ? Parry has seen millions go out of this club on players who no one could have possibly interviewed before signing because no one in their right mind could spend more than a couple of minutes with these signings without realising they were mercenary chancers who did not deserve a place at this club.

We now have a proper BOSS in Rafa. A man who doesn't seem to want to be mates with his players and I really believe in him I just feel sad that the gang of losers above him haven't got the decency to fall on their swords.

Good post John Bull,
I feel embarrassed, that we have wasted so much money, the coffers are now empty and we are sending Rafa out to the semi-retired player 'Car Boot Sales' for 33 yr old defenders.
We are sending him scrapping for a 28 yr old reserve forward haggling and arguing over the knock-down price.
Whilst not wishing to denegrate the two players, who will no-doubt be useful additions, this is not the LFC way of buying players. I am sorry for Rafa.
But this is all as a result of Profligacy presided over by Parry, he needs to 'carry the can' and take early retirement, so that we can bring in both new finance and new management.

by **Devestatin Dave (yeah)** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:50 pm

When Alex Ferguson took over the Scum were they a championship winning team?

When Crying ****** took over at Highbury, they had no championship credentials.
and until Roman bought in at the bridge, did they have even the slightest chance of winning the prem?
The answer is of course no to all of these cos only teams who are strugglin need better managers, Rafas in the same position as both wenger and Alex were when they took over and it takes a matter of years to build a successful winning team not a couple of months. We shouldnt be lookin at where we are now under Rafa think of were we will be at the end of next season or the season after and then you can begin to question his ability, hes done an incredible job so far with a squad with some awful players and plenty of average ones, but, and i know this is a big but, a week on monday we could be 4 points off 3rd on the brink of the league cup final, in the 4th round of the FA cup and were In the knock out stage of the champions league.....Not bad eh for someone who has had to put up with an incredible amount of injuries over 23 million pounds worth of flops who are so bad we could only send them out on loan and having his 1st choice center mids avaible to play together for about half a dozen games this season, and in Rafa we have one of the most respected managers in the games and one of the best.
I for one am really lookin forward to this half of the season and i dont think we will be let down at all by what we will have achieved come may.

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:57 pm

parry`s got more of an idea on how to run a club than any of us.
liverpool has laid out big money in the recent past and its only right they start to show some common sense.
leeds united shopped `til the dropped quite literally, and even man u have told ferguson not to expect any big money buys.
dont worry about chelsea, for all the money they`ve spent their not that good, more of an efficient workman like side than world beaters. abramovitch will get bored eventually, and then the chesea fans can gather outside the luxury flats where their ground once stood and remember the old days.

by **reddippydick** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:49 pm

Devestatin Dave (yeah)

No one is having a go at Raf but rather the directors.

by **reddippydick** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:53 pm

yckatbjywtbiastkamb

yer right of course but yer have to make a judgement based on what yer know. Parry has had offers but we need money and we the fans dont know why he hasnt done the deal.

Now Parry also brought yer Houlier and was in charge when he bought some of the duds, for me its time for a change and he should move over and lets some new meat get in there.

i worry that we are sliding into 2nd rate but then we can hope for a buyer who can buy us back up to the top cos it aint gonna happen with Parry and his mates.

If they dont want to p1ss in the pot then get out of the toilet.

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