Liverpool FC Forum

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 8:30 pm

sorry for bein aggressive like but all the pessimistic overeacting bullsh#t pisses me off.

by **jonnymac1979** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 9:28 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Just want to ask why everyone is so pessimistic and negative on this board.

I joined here the other day as i was "regretfully" banned from LFC online for going ott with one of my arguments, but all i've seen so far is negative posts.

While i can't stand blind faith and optimism, i also by the same token can't stand blind bashing and doom merchants... both lack football knowledge. and at the end of it all it just makes people look silly.

So can someone please explain the horrible negative atmosphere (not to other members as it seems pleasant enough so far) towards my one and only Love (LFC incase your wondering)?

What did you say in your OTT argument? Sounds like a laugh!!!

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:21 am

Have you seen the aggressive defensive mannor of my posts? its nothing personaly with the lads an females on here.

Well on LFConline they kinda questioned my loyalty and footballing knowledge because i was simply realistic about football in general. So my aggression kind of did get personal with one or two people

i sort of regret it as it was a good place to post but when i have an austrailian armchair fan who's never seen a live match telling me ( read this bit again without the brackets... it should make sense lol. a season ticket holder who's been away and to europian away games aswell over the last 4 years... and a qualified football coach) i don't know what i'm talking about because i said that Rio Ferdinand is a class footballer and Good football is effective football thats not always pretty and then called me a peadophile because i made these comments (i know thats what i was thinking) i kind of took offense and flipped.

But still... after the anger management i'm all good now... sort of :angry:

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:22 am

Johnny have you seen the aggressive defensive mannor of my posts? its nothing personaly with the lads an females on here.

Well on LFConline they kinda questioned my loyalty and footballing knowledge because i was simply realistic about football in general. So my aggression kind of did get personal with one or two people

i sort of regret it as it was a good place to post but when i have an austrailian armchair fan who's never seen a live match telling me ( read this bit again without the brackets... it should make sense lol. a season ticket holder who's been away and to europian away games aswell over the last 4 years... and a qualified football coach) i don't know what i'm talking about because i said that Rio Ferdinand is a class footballer and Good football is effective football thats not always pretty and then called me a peadophile because i made these comments (i know thats what i was thinking) i kind of took offense and flipped.

But still... after the anger management i'm all good now... sort of :angry:

by **Dalglish** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:32 am

I agree largely with what your saying Stu, I also understand other fans frustration with Houllier. Your right when you say we haven't been able to field anything like our strongest team ALL season and I wonder WHY the Gods of Football never decree that Van Knee Stil Sore or Henry never seem to pick up injuries , not that i'd wish them any harm (well not life threatening anyway :laugh:

)

I think when you remove say Henry, Vierra and Campbell or Keane , Nistleroy and Scholes from the respective teams then they would struggle.

I rather wish that other fans could explain as eoloquently as you have here their frustrations instead of simply typing "GH OUT" or "buy Big"

?

??

by **leothelion** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 am

YES EVERYONE IS FRUSTRATED AND EVERYONE IS EXPRESSING THERE VIEWS WHILE FRUSTRATED.
BUT PLEASE REALISE OUR REASONS FOR SAYING GH OUT ITS NOT BECAUSE WE THINK HES TOTAL cr#p I FOR ONE WOULD ADMIT HE HAS STARTED POINTING THE TEAM IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION MAYBE EVEN MADE SOME GOOD SIGNINGS BUT THE FACT IS THAT INJURIES IS NOT A GOOD ENOUGH EXCUSE AFTER 5 YEARS
I DONT DISLIKE HOULLIER SO DONT GET ME WRONG
BUT SIMPLY HE IS NOT GETTING ENOUGH OUT OF THE QUALITY PLAYERS THAT WE HAVE
YES THERE IS A LOT OF QUALITY PLAYERS 'SIT DOWN PUT A TEAM TOGETHER ON PAPER GUARANTEE IT WILL LOOK GOOD BUT THEY ARE CONSTANTLY NOT PERFORMING
OK WE CAN BLAME THE PLAYERS BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHO'S PUTTING UP WITH THERE LACK OF PERFORMING .
ALSO WE MIGHT HAVE A BIG SQUAD BUT WITH THE INJURIES WE HAVE WHY DO WE HAVE NO ONE THAT CAN COVER ITS GOOD TO HAVE A BIG SQUAD BUT YOU CANT RELY ON A MIDFIELDER TO COVER A DEFENDER FOR INJURIES OR VICE VERSA WHICH IS WHAT HOULLIER IS CONSTANTLY DOING PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS PLAYING OUT OF POSITION
IM JUST WAITING FOR BISCUIT TO PLAY AS CENTRE FORWARD .
SORRY LADS THIS MIGHT NOT BE THE ANSWER YE WANT BUT CAN YE EXPLAIN WHY A PREMIERSHIP MANAGER ONLY RECENTLY GOT A NATURAL WINGER IF HES INJURED WHO COVERS
WHEN OWEN IS INJURED HESKEY CAN COVER

?

?? NOT
AGREED SOME YOUNG PLAYERS HE HAS MIGHT BE ABLE TO COVER BUT NOT NOW WHICH IS WHAT WE WANT AFTER ALL HE DID SAY 5 YEAR PLAN NOT 10 YEAR [B][I]

by **RedSi** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:14 am

Nice to read your impassioned views on the talkboards Stu_the_Red, I share your frustrations as most of us do. Unfortunately however after a considerable time spent bearing with GH with faith and optimism, I did reach the turning point a couple of months ago and feel it is imperative that we bring a new manager onboard and the sooner the better.

Your previous quote regarding the 80 point season could just as easily say "The manager was missing for 50% of that season. Imagine what we could have done without him being there at all." I'm just playing devil's advocate my friend....!!!

We do need to buy a WORLD CLASS centre back, a WORLD CLASS playmaker and a WORLD CLASS striker. I'm not talking frenchmen with potential either, I want established European quality. I don't think that we can afford for Cisse to be another £10m+ acquisition who doesn't live up to expectations. Whilst I'm open to suggestions on the centre-half front, Ballack and Schevchenko would be my ideal choices for the other two positions however I fear that our days of being able to attract such names are in the past.

I'm desperately trying to find positives Stu_the_Red but it's becoming an ever increasingly difficult task.......

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:15 pm

We do need to buy a WORLD CLASS centre back, a WORLD CLASS playmaker and a WORLD CLASS striker. I'm not talking frenchmen with potential either, I want established European quality. I don't think that we can afford for Cisse to be another £10m+ acquisition who doesn't live up to expectations. Whilst I'm open to suggestions on the centre-half front, Ballack and Schevchenko would be my ideal choices for the other two positions however I fear that our days of being able to attract such names are in the past.

I'm desperately trying to find positives Stu_the_Red but it's becoming an ever increasingly difficult task.......

Our chances of ever signing these players have and always will be none existant. You have to be realistic iin what you want. Ballacks well overated, big headed, arrogant an lazy n e way. i'd rather see Malbranque. Shevchenko simply will never happen as Liverpool HAVE NEVER and will NEVER sign "big". We produce big players, we will never sign big and thats the way it should be.

The thing thats getting to me is you all can't see the timing for change is simply wrong. Its very spurs like and this is the way the club will go if this happens i am telling you.

They done it with George Graham. He's on the verge of taking them to where they needed to be (europe) and they sack him because the results weren't quite there over short term. He had a settled system 4-4-2 that was well organised, he had players like Keane, Etherington, Davies, Carr, King, Perry, Thatcher all being moulded into good players that would suit his system and i thought if they'd have given him 2 more years they'd have been a very strong side.

Gerard CLEARLY made mistakes last summer and breifly lost the plot buying three players who weren't going to improve the side, we lost anelka which weakend the team and hit some serious inconsistency down to farting around.

This season his signings were damn right superb and i believe if he makes the same quality of signings this summer next season we'll be right back on track... infact i'd put my house on it.

Don't do it the Tottenham way... do it the Liverpool way.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:21 pm

His signings have been varied, for every good signing there has been one at the other end of the scale. On paper the 1st choice XI looks strong but it doesn't always perform to that measure and we can't expect to field a 1st choice XI every game.

Disagree with that

the only BAD signings have been:

Diouf
Diao
Cheyrou
Biscan't
Maybe Ziege but not through lack of ability.

theres been one of two indifferent aswell like:

Barmby
Heskey
Smicer

but the list of good signings by far outwieghs these minor blips.

Also your point on the first 11 not performing is invalid because we simply haven't had chance to see it i'm affraid. I'm sure it would perform in fact i know it would. The best sides always do the best. simple as.

by **coops** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:07 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Disagree with that

the only BAD signings have been:

Diouf
Diao
Cheyrou
Biscan't
Maybe Ziege but not through lack of ability.

theres been one of two indifferent aswell like:

Barmby
Heskey
Smicer

but the list of good signings by far outwieghs these minor blips.

By my reckoning that's over £50 million worth of BAD signings. Minor blips you say?

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:21 pm

Heskey, Barmby, Smicer and Zeige helped us bring home three major cups and two other trophies for the record books. Heskey and Barmby were an integral part of the trebble side.

not that that matters tho i supose because the uefa cup, league cup, fa cup, super cup and charity shield are all mickey mouse and no one cares about them. *rolls eyes*

if i had one of those medals i'd be f##kin made up. but u would because you're better than that

you would only be satisfied with a league medal or champions league medal.

And lets face it if heskey hadn't turned into a little sh##house instead of what he was he wouldn't have been a waste of money. when it goes on for three years a player like heskey continuing to serve up the dross he does do u blame it all on the manager? Owen and Gerrard have gone the opposite dirrection, Baros is improving, Murphy has improved so why hasn't Heskey?

Can't be anything the management has done if all the others have become better players can it?

and for your little arument of £50m badly spent... lets say it was all horribley spent and the players done nothing for it.

Hyypia £3m (current value £12m)
Owen PRODUCED (current value £40m)
Baros £3m (current value £7,5m)
Kewell £5m (current value £20m
Gerrard PRODUCED (current value 25m)

so theres £104.5m worth of players aquired for £11m. that more than covers it. bye now

by **coops** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:22 pm

stu_the_red wrote:The thing thats getting to me is you all can't see the timing for change is simply wrong. Its very spurs like and this is the way the club will go if this happens i am telling you.

They done it with George Graham. He's on the verge of taking them to where they needed to be (europe) and they sack him because the results weren't quite there over short term. He had a settled system 4-4-2 that was well organised, he had players like Keane, Etherington, Davies, Carr, King, Perry, Thatcher all being moulded into good players that would suit his system and i thought if they'd have given him 2 more years they'd have been a very strong side.

This season his signings were damn right superb and i believe if he makes the same quality of signings this summer next season we'll be right back on track... infact i'd put my house on it.

Don't do it the Tottenham way... do it the Liverpool way.

GH said 5 years. That times up in 6 months. I'm sure he will get his full 5 years. If the timings wrong, it's the fault of GH, not Liverpool. We've honoured our part of the deal, it's certain he will not honour is and bring the Championship home this season.

Comparing George Graham and Tottenham to the situation at Liverpool is totally ridiculous. 1. you are not an expert on Tottenham 2. you have no idea whether or not that group of players would have been successful if George had stayed there, nobody does, that's football 3. he won the League Cup and then they stagnated. That together with an 'itchy finger' Tottenham board led to his demise.

Letting him go at the end of the season IS the Liverpool way. As per my first point, we've honoured our part of the deal.

by **coops** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:26 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Hyypia £3m (current value £12m)
Owen PRODUCED (current value £40m)
Baros £3m (current value £7,5m)
Kewell £5m (current value £20m
Gerrard PRODUCED (current value 25m)

so theres £104.5m worth of players aquired for £11m. that more than covers it. bye now

GH didn't produce Owen and Gerrard, Liverpool did. They were banging on the 1st Team door before GH ever showed his face at Anfield.

Your valuation of the other players is a complete joke, especially Hyypia. The transfer market is depressed.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:31 pm

GH said 5 years. That times up in 6 months. I'm sure he will get his full 5 years. If the timings wrong, it's the fault of GH, not Liverpool. We've honoured our part of the deal, it's certain he will not honour is and bring the Championship home this season.

Comparing George Graham and Tottenham to the situation at Liverpool is totally ridiculous. 1. you are not an expert on Tottenham 2. you have no idea whether or not that group of players would have been successful if George had stayed there, nobody does, that's football 3. he won the League Cup and then they stagnated. That together with an 'itchy finger' Tottenham board led to his demise.

Letting him go at the end of the season IS the Liverpool way. As per my first point, we've honoured our part of the deal.

your first point is absoloute boll##ks.

Firstly Houlliers direct quote "i aim to make Liverpool regular championship contenders and qualifiers for the champions league within the next 5 years."

He could never have forseen his illness... or whathappened with Chelsea getting that sort of ludicrous bying power. Get some frigging perspective.

Like i've said TWICE this season we've had Kewell, Gerrard, Hamann on the pitch... they are our three best midfielders... they haven't played at the same time as Owen or even Baros. yet you're making your pathetic judgement on how bad our team is already?

theres been times this season were we have looked really good even missing one or two key players. like i've said in other arguments the injuries we've had this season would goose any side up let alone the one with the weakest squad in the top 4. get some f##kin perspective lad.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:36 pm

GH didn't produce Owen and Gerrard, Liverpool did. They were banging on the 1st Team door before GH ever showed his face at Anfield.

Your valuation of the other players is a complete joke, especially Hyypia. The transfer market is depressed.

Owen and Gerrard where kids. Houllier gave Gerrard his first start. They were just good prospects. They are now world class. they got there under his guidence, he produced two WORLD CLASS players from two kids... end of. My valuation of the other players isn't a joke at all... when you don't want to sell you can name your price and there are planty of teams who's kill for those players.

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