Liverpool FC Forum

Call me crazy here, but suggesting we bring in another striker does not immediately say to get rid of Carroll.  Hell, he is the only player in the senior team at the moment that can lead the line effectively.  Suarez is at his best when he has the freedom to drop off and also find open space out on the flanks.  I like Carroll alot and I think he has a big season coming up for us.

I also think we need another striker (probably two) if we have any hopes of improving from last season.  Having Carroll and Suarez by themselves with a full season of Europa League, Prem, and Cup matches is suicide.

Roger Red Hat » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:34 pm wrote:Look at Liverpool... 

Kevin Keegan, Kenny Dalglish, Ian Rush, John Aldridge, Robbie Fowler, Micheal Owen...   all quick and slight of build.

kevin keegan played up front with john toshack mate, the best team kenny dalglish played in was the late 70`s team where he was partnered up front by a target man centre forward in davey jonno, john aldridge was a target man that could run about as quick as me but that didnt matter because he knew where the net was and robbie fowler and michael owen never won the league.

maguskwt » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:15 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:03 pm wrote:

Roger Red Hat » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:44 am wrote:But Brendan now has funds available and the prestige of managing Liverpool FC to lure a better quality of striker. not make do.

just because he had limited funds at swansea didnt mean he had to go out and buy a target man striker like danny graham. plenty of small, quick strikers around in the lower league`s too he could have signed. there is a generation of fans who just equate target men to ale house footy when infact some of the best footballing teams this country has ever produced had target men up front.

Which teams and who are the target men? I can only think of drogba and drogba in his prime is in another class than Carroll... As much as I hate his diving and crying antics...

football didnt begin in 1992 you know lad, the best sides in our history had target men centre forwards leading the line.

Of course it did - Sky generation and all that... 

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:28 pm wrote:
football didnt begin in 1992 you know lad, the best sides in our history had target men centre forwards leading the line.

Oh right yeah I forgot... And like alot of us has been saying Football has moved on from that. It has EVOLVED just in case you just crawled from under a rock. Man United didn't have a target man for decades and they are the most successful team in recent history. Arsenal didn't have a target man when they won the league. Nowadays, big tall players need to have the skill and finese as well. Modern football has moved away from target man tactics. Drogba is the only player that resembles a target man in a title winning side and his game is much more than winning headers or flicking it on for other players. In other words target men has also evolved. Carroll's game is therefore outdated...

I think Carroll will be sold NEXT summer unless he has a fantastic season for us, he does not fit into Brendan's footballing strategy, but maybe he can adapt, who knows. In any case at the moment we'd make a huge loss on him if we sold him so might as well keep hold of him for a while longer. He does give us some options and if he carries on improving could be usefull as an impact sub at least.

maguskwt » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:00 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:28 pm wrote:
football didnt begin in 1992 you know lad, the best sides in our history had target men centre forwards leading the line.

Oh right yeah I forgot... And like alot of us has been saying Football has moved on from that. It has EVOLVED just in case you just crawled from under a rock. Man United didn't have a target man for decades and they are the most successful team in recent history. Arsenal didn't have a target man when they won the league. Nowadays, big tall players need to have the skill and finese as well. Modern football has moved away from target man tactics. Drogba is the only player that resembles a target man in a title winning side and his game is much more than winning headers or flicking it on for other players. In other words target men has also evolved. Carroll's game is therefore outdated...

in recent times sheringham, drogba and crouch all played in CL finals for top clubs not to mention the likes of that gomez for bayern.
i`m not sure why you are trying to portray carroll as some sort of lightweight that defences can easily handle, andy carroll has proven many times in his career already that at his best he can give any team problems, he f**king wiped the floor with soto and skrtel up at st. james and did the same to john terry twice in the space of 3 days at the end of last season, he caused the european champions more trouble than both barcelona and bayern did.
against man united in the f.a cup game at anfield he was MoM and he was MoM when he scored at the emirates when newcastle beat arsenal for the first time in donkeys years.
and he`s not long turned 23!
it`s not all about tiki-taka football, it`s not about being the best passing side in the league, we held that title when evans was in charge but just like arsenal in recent years we lacked backbone, in our glory years there were other fantastic footballing teams around like spurs who had the likes of glenn hoddle and 2 world cup winning argentinians in midfield but at our best we mixed fantastic football with strength, power and aggression.
no defenders like playing against andy carroll, he may not always score but defenders cant get their pipe and slippers out and cruise through a game.
carroll up front stops us becoming 1 dimensional and running out of idea`s like barcelona did against chelsea, we can play great football and create great goals but with a target man we have the ability to ask teams different questions. thats why that late 80`s team was so good and why the late 70`s team was even better.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:37 pm wrote:

maguskwt » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:00 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:28 pm wrote:
football didnt begin in 1992 you know lad, the best sides in our history had target men centre forwards leading the line.

Oh right yeah I forgot... And like alot of us has been saying Football has moved on from that. It has EVOLVED just in case you just crawled from under a rock. Man United didn't have a target man for decades and they are the most successful team in recent history. Arsenal didn't have a target man when they won the league. Nowadays, big tall players need to have the skill and finese as well. Modern football has moved away from target man tactics. Drogba is the only player that resembles a target man in a title winning side and his game is much more than winning headers or flicking it on for other players. In other words target men has also evolved. Carroll's game is therefore outdated...

in recent times sheringham, drogba and crouch all played in CL finals for top clubs not to mention the likes of that gomez for bayern.
i`m not sure why you are trying to portray carroll as some sort of lightweight that defences can easily handle, andy carroll has proven many times in his career already that at his best he can give any team problems, he f**king wiped the floor with soto and skrtel up at st. james and did the same to john terry twice in the space of 3 days at the end of last season, he caused the european champions more trouble than both barcelona and bayern did.
against man united in the f.a cup game at anfield he was MoM and he was MoM when he scored at the emirates when newcastle beat arsenal for the first time in donkeys years.
and he`s not long turned 23!
it`s not all about tiki-taka football, it`s not about being the best passing side in the league, we held that title when evans was in charge but just like arsenal in recent years we lacked backbone, in our glory years there were other fantastic footballing teams around like spurs who had the likes of glenn hoddle and 2 world cup winning argentinians in midfield but at our best we mixed fantastic football with strength, power and aggression.
no defenders like playing against andy carroll, he may not always score but defenders cant get their pipe and slippers out and cruise through a game.
carroll up front stops us becoming 1 dimensional and running out of idea`s like barcelona did against chelsea, we can play great football and create great goals but with a target man we have the ability to ask teams different questions. thats why that late 80`s team was so good and why the late 70`s team was even better.

You would like to compare Sheringham's football IQ to Carroll's'? 

Sheringham studies the game and knows the right place and the right time to be there to score crucial goals. Carroll will only know after he watches himself on the tape after the game... "Oh i should've been there..."

And Sheringham wasn't your typical targetman... he scores alot with his head not because he's big and tall but because of his anticipation and vision and football IQ. He's more like Klose in that sense... pls give me a player like Sheringham/ Klose anyday over Carroll...

Sheringham was also not the manc's main striker... it was Cole and Yorke...

What about Alan Shearer ?.....Target man of the sky generation and just as effective as Drogba !

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:28 pm wrote:football didnt begin in 1992 you know lad, the best sides in our history had target men centre forwards leading the line.

Different era now though.. game is much faster and mobility upfront is even more key than previous. In comparison to today the game pre 1990s was at walking pace, much less ground was covered. Andy Carroll in the 1970s would have ran riot.

Target men nowadays have to be mobile (ie. Drogba), or, have game intelligence (ie. Ibramhimovic). Its been well documented that the old English style 'target man' died out years ago when the PL foreign influx occured and the game developed. Harking back to an era that wouldnt get success today doesnt apply.

Andy may of course have more in his locker that he hasnt shown yet, and its quite possible that Rodgers will get more out of him. The quotes about "lifting the burden" off the players is an early indicator of superb manmanagement.

Benny im aware of the quotes that Rodgers stated about Carroll prior to playing them, and its clear he rates him, but its a whole different story commenting on an opposition player than your own. From what we have seen to date, he is not a Brendan Rodgers player, however he may be moulded into one. Thats what we are all hoping anyway. He looked incredible in the two games against Chelsea, so it would be great if he could convert that type of performance into Rodgers system.

Sean » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:14 pm wrote:What about Alan Shearer ?.....Target man of the sky generation and just as effective as Drogba !

Your talking about a clinical finisher.

The old 'English style' target man, a category Carroll fits into, died out years ago.

D___C » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:24 pm wrote:

Sean » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:14 pm wrote:What about Alan Shearer ?.....Target man of the sky generation and just as effective as Drogba !

Your talking about a clinical finisher.

The old 'English style' target man, a category Carroll fits into, died out years ago.

Gomez lead the line for Bayern to a CL final , he will also lead Germany in the Euros

Drogba led the line for Chelsea to win the CL

Not sure exactly how a big target man died out years ago when you look at those two .

D___C » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:22 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:28 pm wrote:football didnt begin in 1992 you know lad, the best sides in our history had target men centre forwards leading the line.

Different era now though.. game is much faster and mobility upfront is even more key than previous. In comparison to today the game pre 1990s was at walking pace, much less ground was covered. Andy Carroll in the 1970s would have ran riot.

Target men nowadays have to be mobile (ie. Drogba), or, have game intelligence (ie. Ibramhimovic). Its been well documented that the old English style 'target man' died out years ago when the PL foreign influx occured and the game developed. Harking back to an era that wouldnt get success today doesnt apply.

Andy may of course have more in his locker that he hasnt shown yet, and its quite possible that Rodgers will get more out of him. The quotes about "lifting the burden" off the players is an early indicator of superb manmanagement.

Benny im aware of the quotes that Rodgers stated about Carroll prior to playing them, and its clear he rates him, but its a whole different story commenting on an opposition player than your own. From what we have seen to date, he is not a Brendan Rodgers player, however he may be moulded into one. Thats what we are all hoping anyway. He looked incredible in the two games against Chelsea, so it would be great if he could convert that type of performance into Rodgers system.

This is what he has said since taking over the managers job


From Rodgers

“He’s came here for an awful lot of money and he’s still very young,” Rodgers said. “I don’t think anyone would have argued when they saw his period at Newcastle where he did terrifically well. When you come to a club like this one the shirt weighs much heavier than any other shirt. The expectation and the weight of expectation is phenomenal.


“My job next year is to try and lift some of that weight off the shirt. I’ll take the pressure. The players can just go and concentrate on performing and if you do that you’ll get the result eight or nine times out of 10 because of your talent. That will be the same for Andy and any other player. Then, like I say, we’ll take time to review where we’re at and then look forward.

My issue with Carroll is simple? Can he become a 20+ goals season striker?

Boxscarf » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:55 pm wrote:My issue with Carroll is simple? Can he become a 20+ goals season striker?

owen has never scored 20 league goals in a season .

Its all about the sum of all the partss - if you get 15 to 20 goals a seasopn plus 10 odd assists then thats a good return BUT you need two people to do that - a partnership with two or even three strikers scoring goals.