Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:17 pm

The loss of Lucas for me has been a huge blow for me as it's completely changed the dynamic of the side. We don't have an adequate replacement for him who can do his job. When he was in the side we could get away with playing 4-4-2 in some games because Lucas' positioning and anticipation was second to none and covered up Adam's deficiencies. Now without Lucas we get overrun in there. As others have said Gerrard is never a central midfielder in a 4-4-2. Yesterday was one of the worst games I've ever seen him have in a red shirt. He was virtually playing as a third centre half at times and his shooting and passing was way off.

Also agree about the lack of pressing. We don't do it anymore and it's frustrating as hell as it's what made us so successful under Rafa, especially in Europe. We sit off teams and surrender possession too much and it's a dangerous game.

Finally, I still don't think we have a defined style of play. If you asked me what kind of team we are I honestly couldn't tell you. Last season we played some excellent pass and move stuff towards the end of the season and yet that has completely gone now. We're too one dimensional. The guys who can play pass and move don't play regularly enough. Don't get why Bellamy didn't start yesterday. Suarez is playing too deep and wide most of the time. Maxi has disappeared off the face of the earth.

by **lakes10** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:47 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:The match thread is a complete joke and highlights the flimsy support of Internet fans.

by **Kukilon** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:51 pm

I just want Kenny to do good and that is why it pains me to see him keep on pushing players into the team that ain't delivering. Stop insisting on buying "brittish" players for wast amounts of money that could be had from other countries for 1/3 of the price.

What are players like Adam, Hendersson and Downing "had a good game yesterday" doing to deserve a spot when a player like Kuyt gets to sit on the bench? Andy have at least showed these last games that he has some ability but should never had gotten the go ahead instead of Kuyt or Bellamy. From what I have seen of Spearing he is a much more valuable player than Adam, Hendersson or Downing.

Why did we lend out a player like Aquilani? With hindsight it was a great decision but still a stupid move back then. Milan is just going to get him on the cheap later on because of our "softness".

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:27 pm

Kuyt has had a shocking season so far , so unsure why people think he deserved the chance over anyone else.

No idea why people keep harpin on about Aquilani FFS he hasn't been a Liverpool player for over 18 months now because he wasnt suited for the prem and wanted to be back in Italy.

Bellamy had spent all week trying to get fit but in the end just wasnt ready and had to have injections to be able to sit on the bench.

Henderson is a long lad still maturing and developing as a player who is suited to the middle of the park but is being asked to fill gaps at the moment , Downing had a great game yesterday but needs to show that more often and Adam is good backup.

British players were bought because you need British players in the team as per the rules - 7 months down the line those British lads have helped win us our first trophy in 6 years , first quarter final of FA Cup in 6 years and still with a chance of gettig 4th place.

Time for some to take a little step back and let the team grow and build instead of looking for instant results from both manager and players.

by **lakes10** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:45 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Kuyt has had a shocking season so far , so unsure why people think he deserved the chance over anyone else.

No idea why people keep harpin on about Aquilani FFS he hasn't been a Liverpool player for over 18 months now because he wasnt suited for the prem and wanted to be back in Italy.

Bellamy had spent all week trying to get fit but in the end just wasnt ready and had to have injections to be able to sit on the bench.

Henderson is a long lad still maturing and developing as a player who is suited to the middle of the park but is being asked to fill gaps at the moment , Downing had a great game yesterday but needs to show that more often and Adam is good backup.

British players were bought because you need British players in the team as per the rules - 7 months down the line those British lads have helped win us our first trophy in 6 years , first quarter final of FA Cup in 6 years and still with a chance of gettig 4th place.

Time for some to take a little step back and let the team grow and build instead of looking for instant results from both manager and players.

great post.
our club is changing and is still growing.
Its going to take some time and I feel the owners know this.
we have won something for the first time in years.
In truth the prem is a mess this year, small clubs beating the top teams and stuff like that. We are in a new time of football in the prem.
yes in a few years another team will go close to not getting beat all year and yes that could be us.

As for Kenny, he is still working out what he needs and how to play the smaller clubs, he knows there are no easy game unlike say Rafa and a few of our other manager we have had since we was last NO1.
gettinf 0-0 or 1-1 at home is not nice but still getter than getting beat by a smaller club.
our day will come.

but......we did play very deep lol

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:19 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:British players were bought because you need British players in the team as per the rules - 7 months down the line those British lads have helped win us our first trophy in 6 years , first quarter final of FA Cup in 6 years and still with a chance of gettig 4th place.

Time for some to take a little step back and let the team grow and build instead of looking for instant results from both manager and players.

If only everybody could see the progress! A minority were calling for kenny's head yesterday just shortly before we won our first trophy in 5 odd years and secured European qualification.

For me, this season has been a success regardless of what happens between now and May.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:24 pm

jacdaniel wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:British players were bought because you need British players in the team as per the rules - 7 months down the line those British lads have helped win us our first trophy in 6 years , first quarter final of FA Cup in 6 years and still with a chance of gettig 4th place.

Time for some to take a little step back and let the team grow and build instead of looking for instant results from both manager and players.

If only everybody could see the progress! A minority were calling for kenny's head yesterday just shortly before we won our first trophy in 5 odd years and secured European qualification.

For me, this season has been a success regardless of what happens between now and May.

Some will never see mate because there eyes are too busy looking at their liver because their head is so far up their own :censored:

.

I will guarentee you that people will be asking for Kenny to move upstairs or leave if we don't get 4th and you will get the "Internet and Football Manager fans" demanding a load of foriegn players are signed along with Carlos Kickabout.

by **Homebooby** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:42 pm

The thing that frustrates me constantly is the lack of fast ball and also the fact that we all seem so desperate to pass the ball and move as soon as we get it. The first 20 mins were testament to that. I was screaming at the screen at how City were backing off us and inviting us in and yet noone ran with the ball. Downing eventually got a clue and started to make progress there. When we did that, City looked like a pub team at best.

There's 2 factors here, first of all I think it is a symptom of today's game at the highest level. I think this is why the team coming from the championship are doing so well, it doesn't exist in the same way, at least not so chronically and they actually run with the ball.

Primarily it is a confidence thing and this is what I hope the win starts to do for us. We blow hot and cold exactly for those reasons in my opinion. The only people who don't lack belief are trying too hard. It used to be just Stevie, but now Suarez has caught the virus too. We need the rest of the team to step up and show the way too....allow those 2 to breathe every now and then and we'll be a lot better. Eff me, if Skrtel and Agger can manage it, surely the rest of the midfield can too.

Minor issues in my opinion and all to do with the state of their minds. Belief will only come with success and we made a good start this season. We shouldn't confuse success and a winning mentality with flair. We are missing flair in abundance and hopefully the fact that we are winning things again will start to make our club a viable option for that flair.

by **parchpea** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:44 pm

I think as Liverpool fans we should never accept second best and I personally will not settle until we are top dogs again even though I accept my expectations may well be too high these days.

Souness won a cup, Houllier and Benitez wons cups and we enjoyed those moments immensley, however all Liverpool managers are unltimately judged on league position and it will be no different for Dalglish.

In those terms, and looking at this group, we have one hell of a long way to go in my opinion.

by **stmichael** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:04 pm

jacdaniel wrote:A minority were calling for kenny's head yesterday just shortly before we won our first trophy in 5 odd years and secured European qualification.

There were some utter whoppers yesterday at the game sat near me. We live in a day and age where every fan is an expert who knows better than the manager on every issue involving the team. Ok I didn't necessarily agree with the team selection but I still supported the team for 120 minutes. Some idiot sat near me spent most of the game slagging Henderson and Carroll off and spent the entire half time period slagging Kenny saying he's "out of touch with modern football" and going on about how he failed at Newcastle and Celtic blah blah blah. It was embarrassing.

It's the world we live in unfortunately. I've just looked through the match thread now that somebody mentioned it and some of the comments in there are beyond a joke.

by **Zidane** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:05 pm

We have a good foundation here, we're just missing 2-3 vital players and we will be able to consistently get into that 4th spot imo. I see us moving on at least 3 squad players in the summer and replacing them with better players. At least that would be the idea, whether we can get those players in is another story. On top of that adding 2-3 more players would help a long way. We have a good solid squad the only problem is the quality of some is starting to dwindle and need replacing. Replacing Kuyt and Maxi seem to be almost nailed on for this summer's plans, possibly replacing Carra as our 3rd CB and getting in another striker. On top of that we need either Shelvey to develop or bring in someone to be groomed to replace Stevie. Stevie could hold that idea off for 1-2 more years though. I think he can still do a lot for us just not sitting so deep we need him a lot farther up to get 2 more years out of him.

by **killerp** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:29 am

If you look back at every cup we have won with Benitez it was a pretty much a shambolic chaotic final win each time. In the modern era I don't think we have ever dominated a cup final, we always concede shock early goal/s then we fight back. Luck is what won the cup for us.

It was not an enjoyable experience to actually watch the final! Looked like so many home draws this season.

by **Dalglish** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:54 am

Greavesie wrote:Now that the dust has settled over the win yesterday there's a few issues that I want to discuss, I feel yesterday highlighted our shortcomings in the middle of the park. There was such a lack of pressing and tracking back it was painful to watch at times, it got me thinking what our best midfield set up is, so here we go:

Gerrard - never in a million is he a centre midfielder, he doesn't track a runner and when he's coupled with Adam it becomes extremely noticible. He certainly belongs higher up the pitch, yesterday he was so deep he could have had another daughter on the way

Henderson - this guy frustrates the hell out me, the ability is there is drips and drabs but his tendancy to freeze in games and become invisible needs to be addressed. I'm convinced he'll come good but we need it to be sooner rather than later. Playing on the right isn't going to help the lad either. I'd have rather swapped Gerrard and Hendo yesterday.

Spearing - he's the only one we have atm who can protect the back 4 to anything near an effective degree. Only trouble is week in week out he simply isn't going to make it.

Lucas - We've painfully missed Lucas and would have been a lot better off if he'd have been on the pitch for me, someone to just break up the play and keep the ball

Adam - he's a good passer of the ball don't get me wrong but his immobility is worrying me, he rarely tracks a man and is prone to giving away needless fouls

Shelvey - he's a promising talent as well and seems more reliable than Hendo atm which is a concern. If one of the two warrants a run in the side its him but even then he's still a rough diamond and at this stage in the season it's too much of a risk

Downing - probably the only proper winger we have and I think that shows, it also makes our game a bit lop-sided. Any chances we were going to create yesterday were down that side for me, the right was non-existent in comparison.

Bellamy - wasn't sure whether to include him with regards to the midfield but he's completely different to Downing and has been awesome this season. He's definitely not guilty of failing to press the opposition, only problem is he can't play a good run of games.

Kuyt - probably the hero of yesterday, great servant to the club but good enough week in week out? His first touch is his achilles heel but he'll certainly harry the opposition in the more tight battles

I'm genuinely uncertain about the midfield and how we set up, to get the best out of one striker I feel we have to neglect the other. If Carroll is to be the targetman I'd play Gerrard on the right and Downing on the left, at least we can cross from either side, though that's probably Kenny's logic in putting Henderson there, to no avail.

Now this might seem like a knee jerk based on yesterday's performance but it's something that I feel has been going on for a while, mainly in an attacking sense though the failure to track runners still remains. My main gripe with the midfield is the lack of dynamism and defence splitting ability, it all seemed very laboured yesterday imo, there were many occasions in which Downing was in a good position to cross with only one or two people making the run to the box.

So, what would be your strongest midfield set up given our options and who isn't good enough? I know its a little early to discuss changes but for me it seems unbalanced and the reason behind why we haven't seen too many goals this season. I also feel it gets a bit confused at times when deciding to play to Carroll's strengths or to Suarez' so a change of personell at the front might be warranted as well

Hi Greavesie, good post.

It's not that long ago when we used to sing the song "We've got the best Midfield in the World"and weren't far short of the mark !

Xabi Alonso
Javier Mascerano
Steven Gerrard
Momo Sissoko

Thats how good we had it back then as that little quartet looked to put in Fernando Torres who pound for pound was the best striker on the planet!

How times have changed with the inevitable fall out from the mis management of the club by Hicks and Gillet. It's going to be some time before we can match the Midfield we had at the start of their tenure.

Henderson continues to frustrate and you yearn to see some of the reason why we shelled out £20 Million. You just hope he eventually comes good as Lucas invariably has but with noises from within the club targeting CL football and a genuine assault on the title it had better be sooner rather than later !

Personally I think we are still some way short and Adam, Shelvey and Spearing arent the answer.

Maybe Werner and Henry will have to modify the length of their plan cos I don't see anything com ing over the hill just yet to save the day.

I suspect we may have to blood some of the ypunger lads a little more and they may hold the key to genuine progress in terms of the highest honours the game has to offer......

by **laza** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:51 am

Kukilon wrote:Why did we lend out a player like Aquilani? With hindsight it was a great decision but still a stupid move back then. Milan is just going to get him on the cheap later on because of our "softness".

Mate if your going to go down the What if road then I think Raul Meireles would probably be a better path to travel.

I certainly was disappointed to see him go after it look like he way staying following summer speculation he was surplus to requirements

With injuries and influx of new players and season already bedded in he may have made a difference.

All academic now though and while guys like Hendo have been very disappointing Im always loathe label people failures before their first season is over.

Ive been frustrated by some of performances this year but im far more forgiving when you consider,
we have had big influx of players, some major injuries and off field distractions this season and it comes only just over a year from Hick/Gilette debacle

by **Kukilon** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:07 am

Benny The Noon wrote:Kuyt has had a shocking season so far , so unsure why people think he deserved the chance over anyone else.

No idea why people keep harpin on about Aquilani FFS he hasn't been a Liverpool player for over 18 months now because he wasnt suited for the prem and wanted to be back in Italy.

Bellamy had spent all week trying to get fit but in the end just wasnt ready and had to have injections to be able to sit on the bench.

Henderson is a long lad still maturing and developing as a player who is suited to the middle of the park but is being asked to fill gaps at the moment , Downing had a great game yesterday but needs to show that more often and Adam is good backup.

British players were bought because you need British players in the team as per the rules - 7 months down the line those British lads have helped win us our first trophy in 6 years , first quarter final of FA Cup in 6 years and still with a chance of gettig 4th place.

Time for some to take a little step back and let the team grow and build instead of looking for instant results from both manager and players.

Kuyt have been ten times better than Downing, Adam, Hendersson and Andy.

Aqualani wasn't suited but its a waste of money doing what we did to him. Milan play dirty and we should never fall for it.

I'm not talking about the final. Bellamy have been available earlier this season.

Yes expensive overrated players are going to be more common in the EPL from now on but I agree that it's nothing we can do anything about. I'm sorry but those new brittish lads have done nothing of that sort so far.

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