Liverpool FC Forum

by **metalhead** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:16 am

Kenny Kan wrote:Another rafa thread ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Ditto,

Let's leave Rafa alone, he is gone now and tubby let's move on

by **Benny The Noon** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:59 am

Kharhaz wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Peltier
Potter
Mellor
Pongolle
Warnock
Spearing
Plessis
El Zhar
Kelly
Robinson
Ayala
Eccelstone

Just a few who got first team appearances or debuts under Rafa

The Academy kids Houllier had at the club werent good enough so Rafa got rid and changed over the whole coaching staff in the Academy and the kids were are seeing come through now are the benefits of those changes

But dont let a bit of fact get in the way of things

By all means, dont let facts get in the way.

Were are all those players you mentioned now?

And of the ones no longer here, who sold them?

But that wasnt your original argument was it ?

You said no youth got a chance under Rafa - well they did

The fact they turn out to be not good enough was down to the Academy hence why it was changed by Rafa and the reason why we are seeing players come through now is because of that change

by **Benny The Noon** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:02 am

Octsky wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Peltier
Potter
Mellor
Pongolle
Warnock
Spearing
Plessis
El Zhar
Kelly
Robinson
Ayala
Eccelstone

Just a few who got first team appearances or debuts under Rafa

The Academy kids Houllier had at the club werent good enough so Rafa got rid and changed over the whole coaching staff in the Academy and the kids were are seeing come through now are the benefits of those changes

But dont let a bit of fact get in the way of things

By all means, dont let facts get in the way.

Were are all those players you mentioned now?

And of the ones no longer here, who sold them?

how many are home-grown?
how many started ?
thats the key.
how many started?
this shows the amount of faith u hv in a youth player

how many home-grown youths started under Kenny?
and how long was Kenny here?

Pongolle was brought in and played by Houllier, rafa sold him.
Mellor scored to end gooner's invincible unbeaten run but i dont know what happened afterwards. He got loan/sold.

Can you really not see the reason why Kenny is able to start these young lads - ( he has only given a debut to one lad so far )

Because the Academy was revamped by Rafa .

Mellor scored to end gooner's invincible unbeaten run but i dont know what happened afterwards. He got loan/sold.

No he didnt - Rooney did when they got beat by the mancs - Mellor then went on and had a fair amount of injuries and was transfered to Preston and then onto Sheff Weds .

by **dawson99** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:35 am

Another thread changed to some Rafa arguament. Rafa was class what he did with the youths and all that, but he fecked up his main job. He was too stubborn and took on too much, which was his downfall but...

He is leaving us a decent legacy of some class youths coming through the ranks, for which we should all be thankful

by **tubby** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:01 pm

From what I had seen before I didn't think Spearing was good enough. But under Kenny he seems invigorated and doesn't look out of place.

by **cpc4eva** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:39 pm

http://www.footytube.com/video/arsenal-liverpool-apr17-79465?ref=lchan_vidgrid

watch the video from 10mins 30sec onwards even arsenal tv are singing the praises of our youngsters - i really like they way they analyze that the youngsters are in the right positions and playing with real nouse - good on them who cares if it was Kenny or Rafa they are getting a game now and who cares how old they are if they can play at the highest level and be good at it then all good for us

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:44 pm

tubby wrote:From what I had seen before I didn't think Spearing was good enough. But under Kenny he seems invigorated and doesn't look out of place.

If one thing has been proven it is that the vast majority of a player's talent lies in his mind. We have Kuyt, Maxi, Spearing and even Lucas playing like professional footballers who would get into any team in europe. This shows us what was lacking with Rafa and what KK has in abundance: man management and the ability to inspire people to achieve what was formerly thought of as unachievable.
To turn mediocre and ne'er do well players into potential title challengers is a fantastic feat and KK deserves all the credit for proving that a buch of washed up losers can become winners if they are treated properly and made to feel they are better than they think they are.
YNWA

by **tubby** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:21 pm

Thommo's perm wrote:
tubby wrote:From what I had seen before I didn't think Spearing was good enough. But under Kenny he seems invigorated and doesn't look out of place.

If one thing has been proven it is that the vast majority of a player's talent lies in his mind. We have Kuyt, Maxi, Spearing and even Lucas playing like professional footballers who would get into any team in europe. This shows us what was lacking with Rafa and what KK has in abundance: man management and the ability to inspire people to achieve what was formerly thought of as unachievable.
To turn mediocre and ne'er do well players into potential title challengers is a fantastic feat and KK deserves all the credit for proving that a buch of washed up losers can become winners if they are treated properly and made to feel they are better than they think they are.
YNWA

If anything I think it just shows us that you are still bitter towards Rafa, god knows why.

Rafa was lacking in that was he? He got them to 2 European Cup finals in the space of 3 years and won 1 of them. I think it was more a case of maybe his methods went stale after a while rather than him not having the midas touch in the first place. I put that down to Paco leaving and no fresh injection of quality.

And I don't recall the likes of Biscan, Traore or Finnan ever being world beaters but on the run to Istanbul they all played out of their skin, much in the same way as KK is managing with the present squad.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:24 pm

tubby wrote:
Thommo's perm wrote:
tubby wrote:From what I had seen before I didn't think Spearing was good enough. But under Kenny he seems invigorated and doesn't look out of place.

If one thing has been proven it is that the vast majority of a player's talent lies in his mind. We have Kuyt, Maxi, Spearing and even Lucas playing like professional footballers who would get into any team in europe. This shows us what was lacking with Rafa and what KK has in abundance: man management and the ability to inspire people to achieve what was formerly thought of as unachievable.
To turn mediocre and ne'er do well players into potential title challengers is a fantastic feat and KK deserves all the credit for proving that a buch of washed up losers can become winners if they are treated properly and made to feel they are better than they think they are.
YNWA

If anything I think it just shows us that you are still bitter towards Rafa, god knows why.

Rafa was lacking in that was he? He got them to 2 European Cup finals in the space of 3 years and won 1 of them. I think it was more a case of maybe his methods went stale after a while rather than him not having the midas touch in the first place. I put that down to Paco leaving and no fresh injection of quality.

And I don't recall the likes of Biscan, Traore or Finnan ever being world beaters but on the run to Istanbul they all played out of their skin, much in the same way as KK is managing with the present squad.

I am not bitter at all
I am quite sad, if not gutted that Rafa did not succeed. I so wanted him to do well and would have loved him to stay and win the league. Sadly that was not to be. I have said before he was the architect of his own downfall and you have agreed with the Paco and lack of quality comments. Like all people he had his strengths and weaknesses, and even though you might not want anyone to point out his failings, he had them and ultimately paid the price.

by **Octsky** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:13 am

edited

by **Octsky** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:19 am

Thommo's perm wrote:
tubby wrote:
Thommo's perm wrote:
tubby wrote:From what I had seen before I didn't think Spearing was good enough. But under Kenny he seems invigorated and doesn't look out of place.

If one thing has been proven it is that the vast majority of a player's talent lies in his mind. We have Kuyt, Maxi, Spearing and even Lucas playing like professional footballers who would get into any team in europe. This shows us what was lacking with Rafa and what KK has in abundance: man management and the ability to inspire people to achieve what was formerly thought of as unachievable.
To turn mediocre and ne'er do well players into potential title challengers is a fantastic feat and KK deserves all the credit for proving that a buch of washed up losers can become winners if they are treated properly and made to feel they are better than they think they are.
YNWA

If anything I think it just shows us that you are still bitter towards Rafa, god knows why.

Rafa was lacking in that was he? He got them to 2 European Cup finals in the space of 3 years and won 1 of them. I think it was more a case of maybe his methods went stale after a while rather than him not having the midas touch in the first place. I put that down to Paco leaving and no fresh injection of quality.

And I don't recall the likes of Biscan, Traore or Finnan ever being world beaters but on the run to Istanbul they all played out of their skin, much in the same way as KK is managing with the present squad.

I am not bitter at all
I am quite sad, if not gutted that Rafa did not succeed. I so wanted him to do well and would have loved him to stay and win the league. Sadly that was not to be. I have said before he was the architect of his own downfall and you have agreed with the Paco and lack of quality comments. Like all people he had his strengths and weaknesses, and even though you might not want anyone to point out his failings, he had them and ultimately paid the price.

if i am not wrong throughout history good generals were being able to inspire troops even if the odd are stack greatly against them.
rafa is more suitable to be a football analyst, just like wenger is more suitable to be a youth scout. Manager's first role is to simply manage. if you cant do that u r not a good manager.

i thought Finnan was one of our most consistent RB since Rob Jones. bit disappointed he got sold.

rafa was supposed to be the chosen one yet he failed us so greatly. yes he won the big ears but he also set us back 3 seasons and counting of champs football.
so much was expected of him and in the end he didnt even had the dignity to quit.

adding to that, KK done great with the team, Spearing look like another Scholes in the making. Robinson is a fitter version of Aurelio and defensive version of Riisle, adventure in going forward.
Kelly will be the future lynchpin in defense and Falagan will be another ..hmmm..cant think of anything, needs more improvement.

by **Octsky** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:39 am

sorry to add further, but i really like the performance of Spearing vs Brimingham.
he has a strong shot, good distribution and work rate, n he plays for the shirt.
Lucas had gotten a few season to be good, Spearing had like 3 matches.

Kelly will be the future.

Robinson also caught my eye, kept walcott quiet on his debut, has a good pace and v comfortable with the ball going forward. He is just 17

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:40 am

My aim when i mentioned Rafa not giving young players a chance enough wasnt to turn this into a total Rafa thread again.

Its simply my opinion.
Like i said Rafa did alot of good in reshaping the Acadamy and for bringing in the top coaches he did.
I still feel though that if he was manager here and now we would have had senior players played out of position rather than Flanagan starting 3 matches in a row and Robinson being thrust on away at the emirates.
He was definitely too cautious for me in that respect as the point i made about Spearing being overlooked when we actually had no other central midfielders.
People will point out that players were given their debuts under Rafa, the likes of Spearing Kelly and even Robinson. But for me they were never really trusted enough while we give chance after chance to underperforming senior squad players.

by **parchpea** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:04 am

Dalglish has made a significant impact but I also feel that losing Torres and recruting Suarez has made a hell of a difference to this side. His enthusiasm and movement has changed the dynamic completely and weve got everyone feeding off his energy all over the park. Ironically we may still have had Torres if we had kept Benitez and whilst keeping both may have seemed of paramount importance at the time the departure of these individuals has led to a better outcome for us overall. Sometimes you have to rip it down and build it up again and we are just seeing the foundations being laid at the moment.

by **jacdaniel** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:08 am

Ben Patrick wrote:My aim when i mentioned Rafa not giving young players a chance enough wasnt to turn this into a total Rafa thread again.

Its simply my opinion.
Like i said Rafa did alot of good in reshaping the Acadamy and for bringing in the top coaches he did.
I still feel though that if he was manager here and now we would have had senior players played out of position rather than Flanagan starting 3 matches in a row and Robinson being thrust on away at the emirates.
He was definitely too cautious for me in that respect as the point i made about Spearing being overlooked when we actually had no other central midfielders.
People will point out that players were given their debuts under Rafa, the likes of Spearing Kelly and even Robinson. But for me they were never really trusted enough while we give chance after chance to underperforming senior squad players.

I agree with that. But you also have to consider that when Rafa was manager, we were expected to be challenging for the title as well as qualifying for the latter stages of the CL, so there was a lot of pressure and maybe it wasnt suited for the young players.

Since January this year, our only priority has being to get some pride back... which has been greatly achieved but we didn't have much to lose.

The main thing to mention though, is that while H+G were raping the club...there were people here like Rafa, kenny, Ian Ayres etc that were working hard to ensure the long term survival of the club. We should be thankful that we're starting to reap the rewards of all their work.

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