Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

The bit that infuriates me is not actually Xabi leaving, I'm old enough to know players don't play forever in a club.

The irritating things mate, is that we go anywhere in the world, name it Barry, name it Simao, name it Alves, and lesser clubs than us ask VERY IMPORTANT amounts of money for their players, which we struggle to pay.

On the contrary, a bigger club like Liverpool is letting leave their players in a too reasonable price for my liking. Why is this? 

For whatever reason, we have hardly been inundated with offers for Alonso have we Sabre?  If we had had 3 or four clubs fighting for his signature maybe we could have got what you think he is worth, but we are seemingly desperate for money with one potential buyer.......never going to get top dollar under those circumstances.

The other option is maybe we are getting near enough what he's worth?

[Sabre]

The bit that infuriates me is not actually Xabi leaving, I'm old enough to know players don't play forever in a club.

The irritating things mate, is that we go anywhere in the world, name it Barry, name it Simao, name it Alves, and lesser clubs than us ask VERY IMPORTANT amounts of money for their players, which we struggle to pay.

On the contrary, a bigger club like Liverpool is letting leave their players in a too reasonable price for my liking. Why is this? 

For whatever reason, we have hardly been inundated with offers for Alonso have we Sabre?  If we had had 3 or four clubs fighting for his signature maybe we could have got what you think he is worth, but we are seemingly desperate for money with one potential buyer.......never going to get top dollar under those circumstances.

The other option is maybe we are getting near enough what he's worth?

Too close perhaps. My point is that the market is inflated, Barry isn't worth 15M, nor Alves is worth 30M, but they ask those sums and they stand firmly. We don't.

The only proper offer so far is Juventus. But there are rumours and big clubs in Spain (the most likely to be interested on Alonso) haven't done their shopping.

In the other hand Rafa said only a week ago he'd need an important sum to let Alonso go, so it just doesn't make sense to hurry so much. It indicates we need too badly money. If this gossip is true.

[Number 9]

The bit that infuriates me is not actually Xabi leaving, I'm old enough to know players don't play forever in a club.

The irritating things mate, is that we go anywhere in the world, name it Barry, name it Simao, name it Alves, and lesser clubs than us ask VERY IMPORTANT amounts of money for their players, which we struggle to pay.

On the contrary, a bigger club like Liverpool is letting leave their players in a too reasonable price for my liking. Why is this? 

For whatever reason, we have hardly been inundated with offers for Alonso have we Sabre?  If we had had 3 or four clubs fighting for his signature maybe we could have got what you think he is worth, but we are seemingly desperate for money with one potential buyer.......never going to get top dollar under those circumstances.

The other option is maybe we are getting near enough what he's worth?

True Saint! plus if Rafa bumped the price up Juve would have pulled out and he would have no funds for Barry!
Its called robbing Peter to pay Paul Sabre!

Clubs know Rafa needs to sell before he buys as well so it gives them more to negotiate with.Some people say football is simple,is it Fu'ck,even transfers are like a game of chess unless you are Chelsea!

[account deleted by request]

The bit that infuriates me is not actually Xabi leaving, I'm old enough to know players don't play forever in a club.

The irritating things mate, is that we go anywhere in the world, name it Barry, name it Simao, name it Alves, and lesser clubs than us ask VERY IMPORTANT amounts of money for their players, which we struggle to pay.

On the contrary, a bigger club like Liverpool is letting leave their players in a too reasonable price for my liking. Why is this? 

For whatever reason, we have hardly been inundated with offers for Alonso have we Sabre?  If we had had 3 or four clubs fighting for his signature maybe we could have got what you think he is worth, but we are seemingly desperate for money with one potential buyer.......never going to get top dollar under those circumstances.

The other option is maybe we are getting near enough what he's worth?

Too close perhaps. My point is that the market is inflated, Barry isn't worth 15M, nor Alves is worth 30M, but they ask those sums and they stand firmly. We don't.

The only proper offer so far is Juventus. But there are rumours and big clubs in Spain (the most likely to be interested on Alonso) haven't done their shopping.

In the other hand Rafa said only a week ago he'd need an important sum to let Alonso go, so it just doesn't make sense to hurry so much. It indicates we need too badly money. If this gossip is true.

The thing is Villa might be a smaller club than us, but they arn't short of cash (Randy Learner) so they would rather keep Barry than sell him. We presumably are short of money and can't afford to keep big value players who arn't definately going to be automatic first choice next season. Hence the sale of Sissoko and now Alonso for less than we (the fans) would expect/hope for.

I honestly believe we don't play the transfer "game" very well,(Crouch/Carson) and even when it comes to buying players we tend to go in with offers that are so low that there is no way the offer will be accepted and then just keep going back and back untill we finish up paying top dollar. (Benayoun first offer £1million, Pennant first offer £4million, Crouch first offer £5million) Maybe if we went in with a reasonable offer and told them it was final we might get better value for money?

[Stev1eran]

Selling Xabi and buying Barry doesn't make sense but again its something that the heirachy at the club hasn't had since they sold out to Mork and Mindy.
Who is it at the club that does the negotiating for buying and selling of players ?
Is it Rick Parry ?  Whoever it is must be wearing a big yellow jacket with 'Easy' on it coz the other clubs can obviously see him coming for miles.
I think its about time someone taught them about profit and loss !!

[Ciggy]

If I had the chance to marry one Liverpool player I would marry Alonso he would make the perfect hubby, what ya reckon Nan

[bigmick]

I don't like the onwers anymore than the next man, but those who are huge fans of Xabi and the manager would do well to remember that we haven't got to sell him, owners or not. Alonso wants to stay and he is our player. Clearly, Rafa thinks that Barry is a better player (whether or not we agree with him is by the by) and is prepared to take a financial hit to do the swap. Absolutely nothing to do with the owners on this occasion, Rafa seems to have made his mind up all by himself.

Just as an aside in terms of valuations and getting value. I did say a month or so ago that Alonso was worth low teens and got derided from the rooftops. It's a matter of opinion of course and it always is, but midfielders who lie as deep as Xabi does these days and play with his lack of mobility are limited in terms of where they can play. It's significant for instance that none of the bigger teams in the Premiership have shown any interest, despite his obvious qualities. They've no doubt looked at the way in which he currently plays and the way his passing is nullified with relative simplicity, making him just another holding midfielder. Unfortunately, when you become just another holding midfielder (ie one that never scores a goal, never provides an assist, never gets up to support the attack etc etc) there are plenty of others around who do the same job. Doubly unfortunately for Xabi, there are others who do it with more verve and energy and are therefore better at it, we have one at our own club for instance who as purely an out and out holding midfielder is much the better option.

That said, I'm surprised that at the price somebody hasn't taken the gamble on buying him and trying to rekindle the spark of ability and vision that was there for him two or three seasons ago. Perhaps Ranieri is looking to revitalise his career in the same way as he did with Sissoko.

As for Saints point about the way you approach a club looking to buy their player, I'm fairly sure there is something in it. Equally, we seem to have developed a knack og going for players who are barely a year into a new deal. Saint mentioned Benayoun and I think I'm right in saying he had just signed a new contract before we made our interest known. Barry too has plenty of time left. Compare and contrast this with the Crouch fiasco, a year left and the clock is ticking. Without any concrete bids we make it known that we are looking for 15 million quid for a player for whom we've made it abundantly obvious that he doesn't figure in our plans.

No doubt I'll be accused of being "Wengers bum chum" or something similar by the thought police, but reading about the way Arsenal wooed the young kid Ramsay brought back memories of how we used to do things. Dalglish did a similar thing with Jamie Redknapp when he was a kid, got him up fopr a meal, spent time with him, makde him feel wanted. Whichever way you look at it, our approach at the moment doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

[Number 9]

Spot on post Mick!
Apart from the first paragraph!
In my opinion its everything to do with the "owners" that Rafa has to sell Alonso.He needs money to buy a player he wants.The "owners" either have not got that available or have it but are not prepared to put it our way!
Looking over our squad there is no one really there that we would get good money for that is surplus to requirement.Central midfield is a position we are rich in and can afford to loose a bit of quality,someone had to go to raise funds and unfortuanately its looking like Alonso.

If there was money available rafa could and likely would have kept Alonso and shipped out a few players of lesser value.Riise,Pennant,Finnan and Crouch for example but we need more than just one player.Alonso is being sacrificed for Barry and hopefully the 4 above will be sold for another quality striker!

Anyway what im trying to say is that if the "owners" had the capital LFC requires Rafa would have the luxury of keeping Xabi if he wanted!
Because of the circumstances and lack of investment he has had no choice!
ITS 100% THE FAULT OF G&H THAT RAFA IS IN THIS SITUATION!
IF LFC WAS AN ANIMAL.....THEY HAVE BOUGHT A DOG THEY CANT AFFORD TO FEED!
If ya know what i mean!

[66-1112520797]

thought police,

  Like it.

BTW Mick that post was spot on, you hit the nail on the head with Xabi and his footballing abilities. I know the people that meet him in a pub and "talk to his dad", or even fancy him in the ladies case is just utter folly when it comes down to football itself.

[laza]

Before all the ladies and guys who think he is a great bloke start crying. Also before the matyrs of Holy Order "If only gaffer read the game like I did we would won that league by now" start rejoicing as they are crucified or stoned by great unwashed .

Before all that is this actually bona fide soon to be announed on the offal transer or just media BS.

Can anyone explain if this does go through what will we do with our 15mil pound transfer Barry . Have him playing second fiddle to Mash/Gerrard combo like Alonso basically was ?

How despressing we need to sell Alonso to buy but by selling Alonso we need to buy to keep our centre mid strong.

Most important thing out of  this for me. Does this mean another season without any class out on the wings?

[Bad Bob]

It's significant for instance that none of the bigger teams in the Premiership have shown any interest, despite his obvious qualities. They've no doubt looked at the way in which he currently plays and the way his passing is nullified with relative simplicity, making him just another holding midfielder. Unfortunately, when you become just another holding midfielder (ie one that never scores a goal, never provides an assist, never gets up to support the attack etc etc) there are plenty of others around who do the same job. Doubly unfortunately for Xabi, there are others who do it with more verve and energy and are therefore better at it, we have one at our own club for instance who as purely an out and out holding midfielder is much the better option.

Leaving aside the question of how we know that none of the big Premiership teams have made any discrete inquiries and assuming there's something to the notion that they haven't, I would think a couple of factors are at play.  First--and I'll just get this out of the way directly, so I'm not accused of having Alonso-coloured specs--there's the sense that Xabi is not the force he once was when he came to England.  That might account for some of the lack of interest amongst the top sides.  More significantly, I would argue, is that there would be no room for Alonso at either Chelsea or Man U, such are their riches at CM.  Arsenal, I think, would do quite well to have a sniff but, then again, they don't prefer to spend big money if they can find a young lad to groom into the role.  Add to that the strong possibility that Liverpool and the player himself would reject any move to a rival out of hand and, to me, it's not quite so surprising that the big English clubs aren't sniffing around (if indeed they're not).

That said, I'm surprised that at the price somebody hasn't taken the gamble on buying him and trying to rekindle the spark of ability and vision that was there for him two or three seasons ago. Perhaps Ranieri is looking to revitalise his career in the same way as he did with Sissoko.

But, weren't Barca after him just last summer?  You make it sound like we've had Xabi in the shop window for ages and can't manage to get anyone to take a punt.  It seems to me that this is the first summer since he's signed that we're even listening to offers rather than working hard to rebuff them.  Juventus have come in with a strong offer and it's being considered.  There may be others sniffing about as well who haven't been quite as public in their pursuit or who are waiting to see how other deals unfold.  Even if there isn't, I don't think that means there aren't teams out there that would love to sign him.  Rather, they will have other targets, other squad holes to fill, etc.

No doubt I'll be accused of being "Wengers bum chum" or something similar by the thought police...

Can we get a roll call of who the constables are in the Newkit thought police squad?  I'd love to know who this nefarious group of nay-sayers actually are.  Are they just people who disagree with you in the course of a vigorous--and occasionally heated--debate or do they have to do something a little more objectionable to earn their badges?   You've been banging this drum for some time now, mate, and I'm still no clearer about who's got your nose out of joint.

[Number 9]

Bottom line is lads Xabi Alonso needs space to play his game!
English managers are wise to this,close him down quickly and you stop him! Great player but a one trick pony in spraying defence splitting balls from deep in his own half.
The best in the business at it but if he is nulified he is no threat.He cannot really beat a man nor does he have the skill to run with the ball and take it upfield!

He will go a lot further at Juve where they are happy for players to have the ball in their own half and be patient.The Italians will learn that to give Xabi space and time is suicide then eventually they will get his number as well!
Get tight to him,hassle him,give him no room,he has nothing to offer after that.Great servant to the club but after a while way to predictable and easily marked out of a game!

[bigmick]

Can we get a roll call of who the constables are in the Newkit thought police squad?  I'd love to know who this nefarious group of nay-sayers actually are.  Are they just people who disagree with you in the course of a vigorous--and occasionally heated--debate or do they have to do something a little more objectionable to earn their badges?   You've been banging this drum for some time now, mate, and I'm still no clearer about who's got your nose out of joint.

There are various people Bob who assume part-time membership on an off and on basis. Anybody who deems it necessary to think outside of the adopted norm, is jumped upon and accused of not being a real fan, a disgrace, an OOTer a cocktail barman or whatever else. It happens on both sides mate and I know you've had your fair share yourself which I've consistently said I disagree with.

I personally think the forum is an edgy place at the moment and none the better for it. People are less inclined to debate the topic at hand than they are to snipe away at the poster.

I think a decent example of thought policing was when I had the temerity to voice the opinion that Champions League success for English Clubs was becoming much easier than it had been in the past. Practically nobody was prepared to debate it at the time, but then you get innumerable "some idiots have even been saying doing well in the Champions League is easy" littered through posts.

Your response to my "English clubs aren't interested in Alonso" post is a good example of how to disagree with a post. Just say so and say why, it really isn't that hard.

It just seems to me at the minute that if you are of the opinion that perhaps we have underachieved in the League a bit and dare to say so, there are some that are upon you like a pack of wolves. The treatment Saint got in his "Rafa's last chance" thread was bang out of order.

If you dare (as I did earlier) to say that we "probably" spent more than anybody last season you run the risk.




Ultimately though Bob it's all good, no bother from me   

[SundanceKid]

Bottom line is lads Xabi Alonso needs space to play his game!
English managers are wise to this,close him down quickly and you stop him! Great player but a one trick pony in spraying defence splitting balls from deep in his own half.
The best in the business at it but if he is nulified he is no threat.He cannot really beat a man nor does he have the skill to run with the ball and take it upfield!

He will go a lot further at Juve where they are happy for players to have the ball in their own half and be patient.The Italians will learn that to give Xabi space and time is suicide then eventually they will get his number as well!
Get tight to him,hassle him,give him no room,he has nothing to offer after that.Great servant to the club but after a while way to predictable and easily marked out of a game!

Exactly where I was trying to get at with my post. I didn't want to expand from fear of being bit haha

[66-1112520797]

Leaving aside the question of how we know that none of the big Premiership teams have made any discrete inquiries and assuming there's something to the notion that they haven't, I would think a couple of factors are at play.  First--and I'll just get this out of the way directly, so I'm not accused of having Alonso-coloured specs--there's the sense that Xabi is not the force he once was when he came to England.  That might account for some of the lack of interest amongst the top sides.  More significantly, I would argue, is that there would be no room for Alonso at either Chelsea or Man U, such are their riches at CM.  Arsenal, I think, would do quite well to have a sniff but, then again, they don't prefer to spend big money if they can find a young lad to groom into the role.  Add to that the strong possibility that Liverpool and the player himself would reject any move to a rival out of hand and, to me, it's not quite so surprising that the big English clubs aren't sniffing around (if indeed they're not).

I dont think Manchester United would try and sign a Liverpool player, but if they did I highly doubt it would be Xabi. I know Fergie said some years ago he would of liked Gerrard in his team, but Gerrard and Xabi IMo are on almost two different planets when compairing football. Still I dont think Fergie would see Xabi as an improvement to his sides DM's. On Newkitt we knock the likes of Carrick who was a lot of money and Hargreaves to. But personally Xabi in his current state isnt much better IMO. Hargreaves has the engine and legs on him, Carricks a similar stock of player. Obviously if Xabi was that good as some make him out to be around here, he'd walk into any team, this doesnt seem the case. IMO there are many better holding midfielders out there who do the holding position plus more, like support an attack from time to time etc etc.

Chelsea on the other hand would have the audacity to put in a bid, and go public with it, but again and IMO what they probably have there already is sufficient enough, not to bother with an Alonso bid. Maybe they have placed in a bid both them and Man U but I'd be suprised if they did honestly. Arsenal are a team who would probably benefit from having Xabi as Flamini has just gone.


All in all though like has been said before, I'd sell Xabi to the highest bidder even Arsenal or Chelsea. Touching wood, I dont think he'd be the kind of player to come back and haunt us.