Liverpool FC Forum

[Owzat]

Im pretty sure most people at the beginning of the season said we wanted to progress and be in a title challenge around xmas and not miles away from it all and have a fighting chance and they would be pleased with that - now people saying if we dont win it Rafa should go ?!

If we fade badly then he'll have been in charge five seasons and not mounted a serious challenge. This isn't a serious challenge yet, we need to be there at the death not halfway through. Rafa is still showing tactical failings, seemingly squandering money on signings that aren't even used and is still failing to produce results against sides we should be beating/not losing to.

The only "progress" is being top, now the mancs are threatening even that. And I've compared last season's results with this and it may just be the order has fallen nicely, Chelsea's level has dropped as has Arsenal's and the mancs are playing catch-up in fixtures. We lost four games last season, we still have to play West Ham and the mancs away which was two of the four we lost last season. We've drawn 1/3 of our games, same as last season. Did we challenge for the title last season?

Also, how different is the Rafa situation to that of Houllier and his "five year plan" ? Rafa landed the European Cup first season which helped him in the sense fans will use that fact in any defence of him. But in the league we had one good season (05/06) and still fell more than half a dozen points shy of a title challenge. So maybe it is time to say this is it, do or go. If we don't even get close this season, who's to say we will next season, the season after or the season after that? When he's passed seven years and still not "done a fergie", will that end that little dream some have? Or will they suggest he is simply setting an even longer term record/fergie miracle of 8,9,10,11........ etc years before winning the title?

Or put simply - how long is long enough? Houllier ponced about long enough that Chelsea came along and made winning the title harder, now Citeh have enough money they may make it harder again. Could be last chance saloon for Rafa, maybe never get a better chance

DISCLAIMER : I'm not saying that I necessarily want Rafa out, but making the case to say he's had a lot of time and we need to see some kind of progression towards the aim - the league title

[milou]

Well we did increase the gap with the draw against Stoke (as indeed I suppose we did when we drew with them at Home as well) but time will tell if by not increasing it more than we did, we shot ourselves in the foot. I know many people ran around the forum damping down the fires of dissent with a sledgehammer after each missed opportunity (particularly at Home), but it is beginning to look like the draws may come to haunt us in the end.

The biggest shame of all is that we have gone from concieveably going to Old Trafford and playing for a draw, knowing even a defeat wouldn't be terminal, to looking like we are going to likely need to win there. IMHO the pace is about to hot up considerably, the jockeying for position is over and the bell has rung. We are in the early stages of the sprint for the finish (or at least the Mancs are anyway) and the challenge for us over the next 6-8 games is to stay in contention. It won't be easy as they will win most of theirs. If we don't do the same it may not go down to the wire, or even to the half furlong pole.

But as you said previously Mick, you'd be happy if we were still in the hunt at Christmas.

Job done.

Well I don't recall using those words particularly Lando, but I do think it was crucial that we launched a full and genuine title challenge this season, which whatever happens from here on in we have.

To me that represents significant progress, and I'm not sure the fact (assuming it is a fact) that we have the same number of points as we did at the same stage last season necessarily means we haven't progressed. Given the fact that we've reached the same number of points as last season without having Torres available for the most part, is really something I think.

I'm obviously very happy that we established the platform by playing pretty much an unchanged team for the first ten games or so. I'm hopeful that our inconsistent recent form which has coincided with a bit more styling might convince the manager to leave the light on a bit longer next term.

I say "next term" for two reasons. Firstly, as I've said a couple of times now, I think we might just come up short this time around. A combination of being a little too reluctant to risk getting beaten in drawn games, and a little too much styling will see us fall just short I think. I've been saying it would be between two and four points, but my current hunch is that the Mancs might just get up a bit easier than that. Hopefully not, but we'll see.

Also I use "next term" because after the progress this season, I'm hopeful that the manager stays and continues to build. Obviously I hope he might find better full-backs than Dossena for 7 million quid, and indeed better strikers than Keane for 20 million quid, but that's another question entirely.

All in all, you're right. I'm pretty happy.

Judging by their fine form, I fully expected man utd to win against wigan but the fact that they actually just edged it SURPRISED me TBH. IMHO, I think it once again showed that there are no easy games this season.

Many on here commented that Rafa likes to think too much and over-analyses... I am afraid I must agree. Leaving "R" asides, I dun think he is so childish or stubborn (as some accused him) to purposely put Kuyt upfront just to show who is the boss.

I would speculate that he saw something in Stoke that hypothetically required Kuyt's "tireless running about" to help draw defenders out and allow Gerrard to explore the gaps from behind. So he can either choose to trust his analysis or he could use the VERY OBVIOUS (if it is already so blatantly obvious to all of us laymen, just imagine how much more obvious it is to a world-class manager like Rafa!) choice of Torres up-front. Well he looked at the big picture, chose the former and the rest is history.

By the wayt, I gave him the due credit for the mauling of Newcastle, incidentally with a very similar lineup. It didn't work this time, so I think it would be right to also criticize him. 

I argued in another thread that Rafa is a "defence first" manager, which is ok IF he compliments his great defensive work (it is hard to argue otherwise) with effective attacking tactics.. dare I say, like Mourhino (with Chelsea) and Fergie (this bloody season). Do not concede and nick a freaking goal.

Does anyone think the same or is it just me that Rafa (& players alike) often delivered the goods (sometimes even miracles), when we are pushed against the wall? How many times have we hauled ourselves back from the death?

There is POSSIBLY a sliver-lining here with Man Utd closing the gap and even over-taking us (I fully expect this come sat).. and I said this with the tongue in cheek.

Will Rafa now truly feel the pressure seeing Man Utd right in front of us and draw is no longer a viable option? Will Rafa & our players now treat each game like how they treated all the league games as "must win", just like in UCL & FA? Can we successful "duplicate" our winning mentality in Europe to the league?

I hope so and I keep the faith.

[Lando_Griffin]

Rafa will not last another season if he blows our best opportunity in years to win the league.

I still don't feel Rafa can win the league with his style of play, it's too negative.  I hope I'm wrong.

So rather than progress, we HAVE to win the league?

Shut up and grow up.

I'm entitled to my opinion as are you but I have the decency not to tell people to `shut up and grow up` even if I disagree with their opinion.  Who do you think you are? Just because you've been posting longer than me doesn't mean your opinions are any more valid. 

I don't care what you think but I have an opinion and I'll share it.  If you don't like it, don't read it.

The pearl of wisdom coined by so many:

"If you don't like it (your opinion), don't read it."

How the F*CK can I know whether I like it or not without reading it, you dumb punk?

"I have an opinion and I'll share it."

Likewise, you have to accept that I will share mine too. And my opinion is that you should shut up and grow up.

Get it?

You feel that Rafa can't win the league.

Valencia might disagree with you there...

[Madmax]

Rafa will not last another season if he blows our best opportunity in years to win the league.

I still don't feel Rafa can win the league with his style of play, it's too negative.  I hope I'm wrong.

So rather than progress, we HAVE to win the league?

Shut up and grow up.

I'm entitled to my opinion as are you but I have the decency not to tell people to `shut up and grow up` even if I disagree with their opinion.  Who do you think you are? Just because you've been posting longer than me doesn't mean your opinions are any more valid. 

I don't care what you think but I have an opinion and I'll share it.  If you don't like it, don't read it.

The pearl of wisdom coined by so many:

"If you don't like it (your opinion), don't read it."

How the F*CK can I know whether I like it or not without reading it, you dumb punk?

"I have an opinion and I'll share it."

Likewise, you have to accept that I will share mine too. And my opinion is that you should shut up and grow up.

Get it?

You feel that Rafa can't win the league.

Valencia might disagree with you there...

well he did say "i hope im wrong" does count for something mate 

[Lando_Griffin]

To me that represents significant progress, and I'm not sure the fact (assuming it is a fact) that we have the same number of points as we did at the same stage last season necessarily means we haven't progressed. Given the fact that we've reached the same number of points as last season without having Torres available for the most part, is really something I think.

Let's put this fairytale that we're on the same points as at this point last season firmly behind us, shall we? (I realise it wasn't you, Mick, who invented this pathetically desperate propaganda.)

After 21 games last season, we had 39 points.

After 21 games this season, we have 46. (Without Torres.)

So the prat who dreamed that one up should get back to licking his wounds after no-doubt being rendered homeless in the current economic crisis.

(That said, I don't suppose it affects the rich...  )

[account deleted by request]

To me that represents significant progress, and I'm not sure the fact (assuming it is a fact) that we have the same number of points as we did at the same stage last season necessarily means we haven't progressed. Given the fact that we've reached the same number of points as last season without having Torres available for the most part, is really something I think.

Let's put this fairytale that we're on the same points as at this point last season firmly behind us, shall we? (I realise it wasn't you, Mick, who invented this pathetically desperate propaganda.)

After 21 games last season, we had 39 points.

After 21 games this season, we have 46. (Without Torres.)

So the prat who dreamed that one up should get back to licking his wounds after no-doubt being rendered homeless in the current economic crisis.

(That said, I don't suppose it affects the rich...  )

Spot on Lando ...... I just checked , now my eyes are like this

[akumaface]

I think we can't expect other teams to drop more points. Aside from any injuries, we need to put our best 11 from now on. If we do that and we didn't win at the end, so be it and at least we tried hard. For me, I would just accept that as a man. But if we are going to play a fecking defensive lineup against a very defensive team and lost points again, then I think it might be a good idea to look for a new manager if we don't win the league at the end of the season.

[peterc1992]

are n e new quality players comin in to replace the ie pennant, lucas

i dnt fink so bt am hopn dat da mgr gz n byz sum qty plyrz innit.

The worrying thing is I understood that

so did i yes i'm still young 

can I just ask what was the point in typing "n" "space" "e" when you can type "any" in the same number of hits? - its no shorter is it?

cos itz hip innit

[peterc1992]

United have a lot of injuries at the moment,we shud capitalise on this... a Win on monday night is a neccesity....anything else would be a confidence drpper and a potential turning moment in the title race....We are in the deep end now and in my opinion Chelsea will fall away from us and United ...therefore its up to us to stop the mancs from getin to 18 league titles... this is where boys become men... we need to do it and i believe we can

[Rockthekop]

Rafa will not last another season if he blows our best opportunity in years to win the league.

I still don't feel Rafa can win the league with his style of play, it's too negative.  I hope I'm wrong.

So rather than progress, we HAVE to win the league?

Shut up and grow up.

I'm entitled to my opinion as are you but I have the decency not to tell people to `shut up and grow up` even if I disagree with their opinion.  Who do you think you are? Just because you've been posting longer than me doesn't mean your opinions are any more valid. 

I don't care what you think but I have an opinion and I'll share it.  If you don't like it, don't read it.

The pearl of wisdom coined by so many:

"If you don't like it (your opinion), don't read it."

How the F*CK can I know whether I like it or not without reading it, you dumb punk?

"I have an opinion and I'll share it."

Likewise, you have to accept that I will share mine too. And my opinion is that you should shut up and grow up.

Get it?

You feel that Rafa can't win the league.

Valencia might disagree with you there...

As I've said I don't give a toss what you think, I'm stating my opinion without resorting to insults.

What has Valencia got to do with the Premiership title?

So because Rafa won La Liga he will win the Premiership?

We'll see who's eating humble pie at the end of the season.

[peterc1992]

Rafa will not last another season if he blows our best opportunity in years to win the league.

I still don't feel Rafa can win the league with his style of play, it's too negative.  I hope I'm wrong.

So rather than progress, we HAVE to win the league?

Shut up and grow up.

I'm entitled to my opinion as are you but I have the decency not to tell people to `shut up and grow up` even if I disagree with their opinion.  Who do you think you are? Just because you've been posting longer than me doesn't mean your opinions are any more valid. 

I don't care what you think but I have an opinion and I'll share it.  If you don't like it, don't read it.

The pearl of wisdom coined by so many:

"If you don't like it (your opinion), don't read it."

How the F*CK can I know whether I like it or not without reading it, you dumb punk?

"I have an opinion and I'll share it."

Likewise, you have to accept that I will share mine too. And my opinion is that you should shut up and grow up.

Get it?

You feel that Rafa can't win the league.

Valencia might disagree with you there...

As I've said I don't give a toss what you think, I'm stating my opinion without resorting to insults.

What has Valencia got to do with the Premiership title?

So because Rafa won La Liga he will win the Premiership?

We'll see who's eating humble pie at the end of the season.

Your talking mate...'Rafa will not last another season if he blows our best opportunity in years to win the league.'

Do you realise that Our best chance in years has actually been made happen by benitez...he got us in the place we are the moment,the man has done wonders taking over from houllier...We are now  a recognised European force. We are top of the league ,because of rafa..we have the best chance to win the league in 15 years,because of rafa and your saying that he will blow OUR best chance of winning it...Its his to win and if he doesnt win it this year he will win it the next or the year after that...

No appreciation whatsoever of what Mr Benitez has done at the club.

[bigmick]

Indeed Lynds, and they haven't got the luxury of being able to stick Dirky Boy up top to replace their best striker. Suppose they'll have to make do with playing the bloke they bought in the Summer to cover for such an eventuality instead (Berbatov). I know it's a bit 1970's (particularly as he's scored a few goals recently) but that's what I reckon they'll have to resort to the poor b@stards. .

So Kuyt gets ripped again.

Way to go.

I must work on my sarcasm. Not only isn't it funny, but people don't get it.

It wasn't a dig at Kuyt at all Leon, because as I've repeatedly said I think he's our best option (obviously discounting Gerrard) on the right and I think given that it might be an idea to leave him there.

No it was a dig at the manager for the ridiculous selection policy of playing Kuyt up top. This has the dual effect of weakening the right side as Dirky Boy is better than Yossi, and significantly reduces the chances of us scoring a goal. And the transfer value of a bloke we paid 20 million quid for five or six months ago. And the chances of improving his three in three record of recent league games/actually building some momentum.

It's good though to be amongst such arch exponants of the art of sarcasm, it helps us all to hone our skills .

[Rockthekop]

Rafa will not last another season if he blows our best opportunity in years to win the league.

I still don't feel Rafa can win the league with his style of play, it's too negative.  I hope I'm wrong.

So rather than progress, we HAVE to win the league?

Shut up and grow up.

I'm entitled to my opinion as are you but I have the decency not to tell people to `shut up and grow up` even if I disagree with their opinion.  Who do you think you are? Just because you've been posting longer than me doesn't mean your opinions are any more valid. 

I don't care what you think but I have an opinion and I'll share it.  If you don't like it, don't read it.

The pearl of wisdom coined by so many:

"If you don't like it (your opinion), don't read it."

How the F*CK can I know whether I like it or not without reading it, you dumb punk?

"I have an opinion and I'll share it."

Likewise, you have to accept that I will share mine too. And my opinion is that you should shut up and grow up.

Get it?

You feel that Rafa can't win the league.

Valencia might disagree with you there...

As I've said I don't give a toss what you think, I'm stating my opinion without resorting to insults.

What has Valencia got to do with the Premiership title?

So because Rafa won La Liga he will win the Premiership?

We'll see who's eating humble pie at the end of the season.

Your talking mate...'Rafa will not last another season if he blows our best opportunity in years to win the league.'

Do you realise that Our best chance in years has actually been made happen by benitez...he got us in the place we are the moment,the man has done wonders taking over from houllier...We are now  a recognised European force. We are top of the league ,because of rafa..we have the best chance to win the league in 15 years,because of rafa and your saying that he will blow OUR best chance of winning it...Its his to win and if he doesnt win it this year he will win it the next or the year after that...

No appreciation whatsoever of what Mr Benitez has done at the club.

I'm not disputing any of what you've just said but I simply don't think Rafa will win the league UNLESS he adopts a less negative approach and starts playing our best players.  We can't afford not to play Keane or Torres. 

I'm just getting a bit tired of the ultra defensive, negative football that we've been playing all season.  Not to mention the bizarre substitutions and unwillingness to take games by the scruff of the neck.

I feel we should have been at least 6pts clear by now but a run of draws against poor teams at home has cost us any advantage we may otherwise would have had.  Surprisingly we are top, which is great but that doesn't mean a thing unless it's in May. 

The frustrating thing is we can win the title with the squad we have but our best players have to play in every game.  Rafa has the players but can he win the premiership adopting his tactics, time will tell.

[GOAT_2.0]

Rafa will not last another season if he blows our best opportunity in years to win the league.

I still don't feel Rafa can win the league with his style of play, it's too negative.  I hope I'm wrong.

So rather than progress, we HAVE to win the league?

Shut up and grow up.

I'm entitled to my opinion as are you but I have the decency not to tell people to `shut up and grow up` even if I disagree with their opinion.  Who do you think you are? Just because you've been posting longer than me doesn't mean your opinions are any more valid. 

I don't care what you think but I have an opinion and I'll share it.  If you don't like it, don't read it.

The pearl of wisdom coined by so many:

"If you don't like it (your opinion), don't read it."

How the F*CK can I know whether I like it or not without reading it, you dumb punk?

"I have an opinion and I'll share it."

Likewise, you have to accept that I will share mine too. And my opinion is that you should shut up and grow up.

Get it?

You feel that Rafa can't win the league.

Valencia might disagree with you there...

As I've said I don't give a toss what you think, I'm stating my opinion without resorting to insults.

What has Valencia got to do with the Premiership title?

So because Rafa won La Liga he will win the Premiership?

We'll see who's eating humble pie at the end of the season.

Your talking mate...'Rafa will not last another season if he blows our best opportunity in years to win the league.'

Do you realise that Our best chance in years has actually been made happen by benitez...he got us in the place we are the moment,the man has done wonders taking over from houllier...We are now  a recognised European force. We are top of the league ,because of rafa..we have the best chance to win the league in 15 years,because of rafa and your saying that he will blow OUR best chance of winning it...Its his to win and if he doesnt win it this year he will win it the next or the year after that...

No appreciation whatsoever of what Mr Benitez has done at the club.

Well said, some of the ungrateful peasants here p.iss me off

[justyna]

Let's just hope that Bolton do their job!