How far have we come? - Against the chelsea rent boys

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Bad Bob » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:43 am

Many of you are doubtless still out on the tear, celebrating a fantastic victory over those shower of b.astards!!!   :D

Once you've got yourselves sorted, give some thought to our progress against the Rent Boys over the last two years.

The Graceless One has started--and will no doubt continue--to dredge up all manner of statistics to illustrate why we're not fit to lace up their boots but his bitterness suggests we've got him scared.  Perhaps statistics don't tell the whole story (or at least not the ones he's trotting out)?

So, where are we at folks?  Still some ways behind the soon-to-be league champs (based on head to head results etc) or right there with them?

Sober or bladdered, make your views known!  :laugh:
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Postby madred » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:51 am

I do believe Bob that we have shown that on our day we can match Chelsea and we have to take this into the prem next season. This team needs a little fine tuning which will happen over the next 6 months and we seriously can challenge them all the way next season. Every one will say they have had poor results over the season but Liverpool dropped vital points against the likes of Charlton etc and im sure we will be wiping the floor next season against the lesser teams. Win the cup or not the progresss has been excellent and im delighted with Rafa and the coaching staff.
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Postby ivor_the_injun » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:22 am

I don't think today was an accurate gauge at all. The Chelsea starting 11 was far from their strongest 11, and in many ways their tactics played to our strengths.

That said, on a man v man basis we definitely showed that we've dramatically closed the gap. I just wish we hadn't retreated for the last 30 mins, as when their wingers came on, I thought then would've been the time to go toe to toe and really make a point. By then we were 2 up though, and with one of the best defensive records around, it was always going to happen.

League-wise this season, at times we've still lacked the killer instinct that Prem champions need. The Birmingham game when we were up against 10 men for 70 mins only to draw, and the Charlton games when we dominated 180 mins of football only to come out 2-0 aggregate losers, and with only a point for our troubles were key fixtures for me. With the 7 additional points we should've had from those games, we'd currently be second, just 8 points behind Chelsea.

There are more - the point we should've had (at the very least) at Man U back in January. Let's not forget we dropped 2 points away at Birmingham back in September as well, not to mention the loss away at Fulham - both teams in the bottom five. 2 points from 6 against Brum, a team that are favourites to be relegated, is a poor return for team with title aspirations. Add those dropped points up, and suddenly we're talking about a points total better than Chelsea's.

Our current form is not far from Prem-winning form. The challenge comes in sustaining it over a season, and this year we're miles closer to that than we've been in the last 2 years. The early season goal drought, and our new year blip have cost us however.

Looking at the team as a whole:
The defence is solid, and the recruits, both actual and potential all look and sound promising.
The midfield is 3/4 phenomenal, with a missing link still needed on the right.
Up front too is still lacking. Fowler's capture was an inspired bit of business, but now Rafa has to move on the strugglers (Cisse, Morientes) and seriously court a major, prolific talent, so that the squad will always have goals at the top.

Both tactically, and in terms of personnel, we're leagues ahead of last year. For me, we're just two signings away from being very, very serious title contenders.
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:46 am

I'd go with that, Ivor.

I disagree slightly regarding the bit where you say Moris' tactics played to our strengths.
As far as I am concerned, Sh*tski came with the intention of stifling the game, knackering our players out, then lumping Mole Dobben and Muff on to run us ragged.

Once again, though, we pull through against the odds, and Rafa made Moris his bitch for the afternoon.

In terms of the gap overall, I would say we will always struggle oover a season as they can swap their entire starting 11 for another team capable of winning the Premiership. Strength in depth.

However - get the right 3/4 signings, and we could shock the feckers.
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Postby ivor_the_injun » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:02 am

It's not like we need a huge squad though. Most of the problem areas have already been addressed.

We've got Agger, Kromkamp and Warnock already as backup for our first choice defensive 4. With Palletta and Aurelio touted as almost definites to come in, that's a very strong pool of players for 4 positions. With Carragher's versatility to play in any of those positions, there's options there.

Gonzalez and Zenden are already on board to add to our current pool of talent for midfield, plus there's potentially Anderson to come through the ranks. If we get Aurelio, he's yet another option for the left. There's plenty of talent for the centre of the park, which can free up Gerrard for the right if needed, and with just one good signing for the right wing, we will have arguably the strongest pool of midfielders in the country.

Up front is more of a problem. I reckon only 2 from 4 will probably stay, so money will definitely be spent here. Maybe Pongolle will come back, although I'd bet against it. Add two quality strikers to Crouch and Fowler though, leaving Rafa able to chop and change partnerships without the goals drying up, and there again we're laughing.

Based on who we have now, and who we expect to come, how about this for a second string 11...

                      Carson

Kromkamp   Agger     Palletta    Warnock

Anderson   Hamann   Zenden    Gonzalez

                Fowler    Pongolle

Not up there with an alternate Chelsea 11 I admit, but they'd give a lot of Prem clubs a game, that's for sure.
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Postby Scottbot » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:47 am

Bad Bob wrote:So, where are we at folks?  Still some ways behind the soon-to-be league champs (based on head to head results etc) or right there with them?

Sober or bladdered, make your views known!  :laugh:

Not far behind at all lad. We bossed the game for 70 mins tonight an looked in absolutely no danger. this Cheslea team have one of the best defences i have ever seen but they rely heavily on Lampard's delivery from set pieces, route one stuff via Drogba or the odd bit of magic from Cole, Robben or Duff. I get the impression a few more teams uin the EPL are actually begining to realise this. As an attacking force Chelsea are no better than decent. I don't believe they can win the league again next season unless they bring in some REAL quality upfront. unfortunately they have the funds to force just about any transfer and i expect they will sign one of THE big names this summer.

I think we're very close. Particularly when you consider Rafa would probably be happy to part with at least 3 of his strike force for next season (Nando, Cisse, Pongo and maybe even ?Fowler.)

Rafa has a masterplan which is taking shape piece by piece.

Congrats to all the LFC fans at the game to day who made so much noise and did the club proud. I'm jealous of everyone of ya!

Walk on.........
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Postby azriahmad » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:54 am

We have made big strides and needs to bolster the first team and squad with a proper right sided midfielder-winger and a more clinical striker at least. It won't take a big squad rebuilding as the defence is already there and the midfield needs just a slight tinkering.

The biggest area is upfront. Rafa has donw a very good job after a very steep learning curve he endured about English football in his first season. Perhaps the level of passion which effect the playing performance did surprise him a bit because in the British Isles, the lesser teams will pour a lot of passion into commitment and translate this into their play to compensate for their shortcomings and can give anyone a good run for their money if played to the max.

I expect Liverpool FC to be much stronger next season.
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Postby dmf » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:20 am

I think we are closing in on them very quickly.Our consistency this year has been excellent and i believe the if we hadn't experienced a couple of goal droughts we would have gone close to winning it this year. Next year will be one of the closest title races for sometime and it wont just be between us and chelski but im confident we can go all the way.
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Postby Gracias King Rafa » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:21 am

Well according to Maureenio we've got no chance of winning the league next season,come on Rafa get that t*** to eat his words!! :D
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Postby dmf » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:43 am

Rafa will win it next year and he'll do it on a quarter of of maurinhos budget. Just thinking of that arrogant :censored: pisses me :angry:
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Postby bigmick » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:07 am

We're very close IMHO with our first eleven, and Ivor is spot on when he points to our slow start and infuriating goal drought in the new year as the two periods which have really cost us.
The problem of course is that such is the financial clout of Chelski, the likelyhood is that they will significantly improve again next season. The impending purchase of Ballack as a goalscoring replacement for Essien, and the aquisition of a truly Worldbeating centre-forward would improve them considerably. While our recruits will make us stronger, we are probably going to need to be just as strong defensively as this season but much more potent in attack. With this in mind I hope we buy a real quality goalscorer and maybe take a very big punt on that Argentinian kid who everyone on heres been going on about.
The one thing that is in our favour is that Chelski are managed by Mourinho. I've long held the view that though his interviews make great copy and he is the master of the one-liner, as a football coach his elevation into the bracket of tactical genius is totally undeserved. The brand of football which they choose to play is far from being the cunning, advanced masterplan that the lapdogs in the media would have us believe. It is infact a remarkably simple system it seems to me though I am not disputing it's effectiveness, and the managers insistence that the players strictly adhere to it's mantra means many either fall by the wayside or have to adapt and play below their potential in a role which is unfitting of their talents.
I mentioned the couple of players they will sign earlier on, and it is my belief that in Crespo they already posess a striker of lethal cunning and unlimited goalgetting talents. It is the managers insistence though on a Wimbledonesque channel outball two thirds of the time rather than a more structured build up which means that the more muscular Drogba's inclusion is a must. Similarly Essien's box to box powerhouse potential (I actually think he is really good player) is limited by the tactic of Makeleli sitting so deep infront of the excellent Terry. It seems to me absolutely bizarre that you buy somebody with the destructive potential and engine of a Sissoko, the tackling ability of a Gerrard and then say to him "there's no real need to defend mate, you go create something". Yet more square pegs in round holes from the special one, and like Wright Philips before him the young midfielder will soon be questioning the wisdom of his decision to join the West Londoners.
I am at an absolute loss to think of a single player which Mourinho has bought who is now widely believed to be a really good buy. Of course players like Carvallho and Ferriera are good players, but at 20 million and 15 million quid respectively, they are fully entitled to be and hardly represent a steal or a good spot in the same way that say Sissoko does or Jose Reinna. Fortunately for him, Mourinho is able to blunder blindly on, his expensive misses stacking up on the bench one after another.
It is in the tactics of yesterday though that the Chelsea manager reveals his achillies heel. Like the away game at Fulham where when 1-0 down after 25 minutes he replaced both Cole and Wright-Phillips, he changes tactics to appear astute and clever. He plays to the lapdogs at SKY, setting up that "Oh Jose weren't you clever outwitting that poor manager like that?" interview with his seemingly baffling variations on a theme. So clever is he infact that you had the ridiculous spectacle yesterday of the hapless Geremi, a right-sided midfielder being ripped to shreds by the excellent Kewell while Ferriera, one of the best right-backs in the Premiership toiled away uneffectively at right midfield. This type of tactical genius and palpable nonsense is strictly for the championship manager addicts and not for FA Cup semi-finals. Diamond? Well the shape they ended up yesterday didn't represent any diamond shape I've ever seen, unless of course it was one drawn by my one year old little girl that is. Rafa didn't need to be any type of tactcal genius, he just played his best players in their best positions (though I accept many would prefer to see Gerrard centrally, but not me).
The important diffence though is that Rafa doesn't feel the need to prove to us that he is a tactical genius. Not for him the ego has landed type blackboard nonsense. Ultimately, it's all about winning football matches and Rafa knows this is more important than looking clever or astute. Apparantly Abrhamovic doesn't know too much about football which is fortunate for the special one, and probably for everybody else in football aswell. My suspicion is that I won't be alone for too much longer in my views that far from being an asset, Mourinho is becoming a liability for Chelsea Inc. A liability not just in that his unspotsmanlike and ungracious outbursts make Kenyons task of establishing Chelsea as a global brand that much more difficult, but also in that as a football manager he really isn't that special at all.
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Postby tubby » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:16 am

What a lot of people are failing to note is that we have had the longest season out of any of the top teams this year.
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Postby The_Rock » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:40 am

On a one-on-one match, we can take on anybody in the world (ie...thats why we are pretty good in the cup matches {3 finals in 2 seasons}).

But to win the league, we have to get about 90 points (and even that might not be enuff)...We have to improve the dept of our squad to achieve that.
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Postby The Ace1983 » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:03 am

I'm not sure that we can count this as an astounding victory now that I look at without half a pint of Gin corsing through my blood stream. For a start, it was only a semi and there is a danger of our players thinking "job done" just because we beat the two favourites in a row. Will they be as pumped up for the Hammers or Boro? I know it will be in a final, but I'm still wary of over celebrating.

And although it was great play by Rafa who got the tactics and selection spot on, we have to remember that Moureen got it all wrong, and that doesn't happen very often. When Chelsea brought on their wide men, we looked pressured and if they'd had Cech and a decent right back on the pitch, things might have been very different. I'm not saying that we got lucky, but Chelsea were a bit weird.

Despite this, I'm not all doom and gloom today. The fact is that if Chelsea ever make the same mistakes again, we know how to deal with them. And with our squad getting deeper already this year with Paletta and Gonzales certain to join and players like Aguero, Defoe, Aurellio all being linked to us, the future looks bright and despite Moureen's moaning, we will be a lot stronger next season barring any major shocks or injuries. Next season will be the true test.

Things are looking up, and we are slowly getting better against Chelsea, but I'm not gonna celebrate until we lift up that trophy at Cardiff.
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Postby Flashard » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:16 am

The Ace1983 wrote:I'm not sure that we can count this as an astounding victory now that I look at without half a pint of Gin corsing through my blood stream. For a start, it was only a semi and there is a danger of our players thinking "job done" just because we beat the two favourites in a row. Will they be as pumped up for the Hammers or Boro? I know it will be in a final, but I'm still wary of over celebrating.

And although it was great play by Rafa who got the tactics and selection spot on, we have to remember that Moureen got it all wrong, and that doesn't happen very often. When Chelsea brought on their wide men, we looked pressured and if they'd had Cech and a decent right back on the pitch, things might have been very different. I'm not saying that we got lucky, but Chelsea were a bit weird.

Despite this, I'm not all doom and gloom today. The fact is that if Chelsea ever make the same mistakes again, we know how to deal with them. And with our squad getting deeper already this year with Paletta and Gonzales certain to join and players like Aguero, Defoe, Aurellio all being linked to us, the future looks bright and despite Moureen's moaning, we will be a lot stronger next season barring any major shocks or injuries. Next season will be the true test.

Things are looking up, and we are slowly getting better against Chelsea, but I'm not gonna celebrate until we lift up that trophy at Cardiff.

I agree with the second part of your post but not the first. This was a great victory over a team that are EPL champs and who domestically we have struggled against we bossed them for what i feel was 70 minutes then there was always going to be a period when we were going to have our backs against the wall.
Also The lads have got experience know and also a manager that will prepare them physically and mentally for the cup final game. They know what it is like to be the underdogs and how that can be an advantage for you mentally i.e us against Millan CL Final. But This is a new time for the club and i think long gone are the days when the players think that they have already won a cup.

Well done to the team and look forward to the big day.
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