Liverpool FC Forum

[ann field]

Can anyone tell me how many games liverpool have lost since gerard houllier became manager (all competitions)

[Owzat]

Gerard Houllier (12/11/98 to 22/12/03)

P243 W127 D63 L53 (W52% D26% L22%)

Source : www.soccerbase.com

We've lost about 1/4, drawn about 1/4 and won about 1/2 our games. 16 of those 53 defeats have come in the last 42 games (ie 30% of the defeats have come in 17% of the games)

[Wendi Richter]

Houlliers WLD stats are good. Very good, considering he took us over when we were ordinary. Any WIN % above 50% over an extended period is good, make no mistake

Wenger record at a#se

W57% L18%D25%

Ferguson at Manu

W56% L19%D25%

Theyre better but not by a whole lot, although both AW and AF have managed many more matches than GH and more bigger, harder to win games v better opposition. Still, GH has a good record especially considering the 16 losses in last 42 drags down his average. And interestingly even though many (including me) have decried GH negative style over the past few years, it doesnt result in any more drawn games.

However, the 2 points to make are

1) How many cups have we won v Asre and Manu. Thats whats important in the end. (Meaningful ones too)

2) Where are we going. The trend says down from 52%, and so if GH was to stay on would we end up at 40% in 2 years time? How much are injuries to blame for the trend? Is it temporary. Or are our poor purchases condemning us to a continued downward spiral under GH? These are the BIG questions.

Interesting i couldnt find Martin ONeills EPL stats. Like to know them as i am unconvinced he is the right man for us. Strachan, another some have mentioned here for LFC, has a very ordinary record stats wise, around W30%. Also like to know GHs previous WLD before he joined us. That would make interesting reading.

[Owzat]

On face value it would seem Houllier has a good record but you have to consider that we have had two Worthington Cup wins, a competition which our rivals consider unworthy and in the UEFA Cup. Arsenal and Man Utd will have almost certainly got more wins and defeats against better opposition while our stats are improved in two weaker competitions (WC and UEFA Cup). Ferguson generally blows at least two Champions League games by fielding weakened teams. Same goes for the Worthington Cup. The matches in Europe are also much tougher so defeat against Real Madrid barely compares with our defeat at the hands of Celtic.

These are the stats that matter : -

Premiership records (1999/2000-2002/2003)

Man Utd P152 W101 PTS 331 (W66%)

Arsenal P152 W100 PTS 308 (W66%)

Liverpool P152 W81 PTS 280 (W53%)

Chelski P152 W71 PTS 257 (W47%)

Newcastle P152 W70 PTS 243 (W46%)

So Houllier has maintained his wins percentage in all competitions while Arsenal and Man Utd win 2/3 of their games in the Premiership.

[JBG]

Its wins that matter in the Premiership (Arsenal's unbeaten start to the season is meaningless as the have drawn so many games).

[Wendi Richter]

So Houllier has maintained his wins percentage in all competitions while Arsenal and Man Utd win 2/3 of their games in the Premiership.

While AF and AW records in the PL are clearly better, GHs 53% is still good. Not good enough for Liverpool by any means but its good. My point being, in replacing GH we are not replacing abysmal, and therefore almost anyone could do better. We are replacing good but not good enough and the danger there is, while someone out there can do better for us, almost certainly there are many who would do a lot worse than 53%.

So we need to be careful to get someone who is CLEARLY better than Houllier. A panicked, desperate decision may dig us further into the sh##e.

[supersub]

That is why the next manager has to be spot on and a decision won't be made now but at the end of the season.

[cheesecakery]

yes but is it possible to win the league by losing a third of your games ?
i think yes , if everyone else all lose half their games !

[oldredeyes]

We can talk stats all day long - the only one that matters to me is 'How many times have we won the premership since is was formed. It's time we got back to basics and that means English and European Champions. Nothing less will do.

[Wendi Richter]

We can talk stats all day long - the only one that matters to me is 'How many times have we won the premership since is was formed. It's time we got back to basics and that means English and European Champions. Nothing less will do.

Of course. That goes without saying. But you dont just click your fingers to make it happen. It takes some analysis of where you are compared with the ultimate.

Stats and WLD are relevent as there is a lot of hysteria about Houllier amongst the fans and the press. If youd just arrived from Mars youd think he was deadset useless.   The stats show he isnt useless, he is OK, just not good enough. So thats where we are.   

Now in relation to winning the Premiership, thats little comfort, and I am with you there, but in relation to who replaces Houllier, its a factor cos you dont want someone who takes you even further backwards, and at 53% W ratio, thats not that hard to do - especially with our squad which is average and needs rebuilding as opposed to underperforming  and needs remotivating. Interestingly if this season we'd performed to GHs W53% avaerage we'd be clear 4th with a game in hand. Again, not good enough but OK.

How many managers have a better W ratio than 53%? Id bet its a minority. That means a shrewd decision is needed on a replacement. Undoubtedly the baord is under pressure. Its not beyond the realms for them to make a rash decision, and then we could really be in trouble.

Look at it this way, once you pick a manager youre pretty much locked in for 3 years. If he is a bum, thats a lifetime. So its a bloody inportant decision. Id rather be 'OK' at 53% with GH for an extra 12 months if thats what it takes to find the right bloke.

[Owzat]

Its wins that matter in the Premiership (Arsenal's unbeaten start to the season is meaningless as the have drawn so many games).

Absolutely. We got off to an unbeaten start last season and fell away very badly, in fact our wins, draws and goal difference after 12 games last season was identical to Arsenal's this season after they had played 12 games.

Wendi - while you may be impressed by winning half our games, the fact remains only two teams have won the league in those four seasons and they have a 66% win rate. Generally the team winning the league averages roughly 2 points per game, 50% wins can only get you that if you draw the other 50% ie go unbeaten. I see the Houllier situation only one way at the moment - it can't get any worse. Someone spending over £100m and managing six defeats in sixteen games is digraceful. You'd think we'd at least manage a little better than a win every other game