Liverpool FC Forum

[Sabre]

I have a question for Joe, as he's american.

Joe, I do understand it's in the constitution to have weapons. But correct me if I'm wrong those can be bought too easily? meaning even in simple Hardware shops?

IMHO just as you need a license to drive a car, you should get a license to use weapons, with through examination both of your sight, your mental health, etc. Those lads showing pics of multiple weapons doesn't seem serious. My question is if it's that easy to get a weapon and what kind of constraints they put to buy and use one.

[112-1077774096]

i know you asked joe, but it all depends on which state you are in, they all have different regulations in relation to buying and owning weapons

[JoeTerp]

it depends on the state but a lot of states require criminal background checks and 30-60 day waiting periods. and you need permits for gun and in almost every state it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon in public even if you have a permit for the gun.  Virginia has pretty lax laws on guns because their more rural areas are part of the "American Gun Culture" where almost evreybody owns one or two guns, people shoot for sport, going hunting frequently and use shooting and cleaning guns as a bonding experience between father and son.     There used to be a law that at gun shows no background check was required nor waiting period but I think those laws might have changed after columbine.

[Big Niall]

It may be in the constitution - but can't you change it. What was right for the 18th century isn't necessarily right now.

[112-1077774096]

constitutions can be changed mate, the thai one is being re written now, the problem in the US politicians are scared to speak out as they will lose the next election, thats the sad fact

[metalhead]

How will the killer's family feel right now? especially his sister whose studying in another university (forgot which), I mean she is going to have a really bad time!

[jonnymac1979]

Joe, I do understand it's in the constitution to have weapons. But correct me if I'm wrong those can be bought too easily? meaning even in simple Hardware shops?

Not that I have a clue about any of this (I don't live under a rock or anything it's just that I've not read any newspapers over the last couple of days or read Sky News website or ANYTHING, I'm just busy) when I was in Florida in 2001, same time as the Anthrax incident by the way, you could buy guns at Walmart.

[jeffiroquai]

Just joined this thread today, as I normally live in the Liverpool footie threads.  As a virginian, a gun owner, and someone who attended college in Virginia, I have some thoughts to add.

As far as gun laws in VA, they are not as stringent as they are being outlined by the media and ill informed.  This crazy b@st@rd, because that is what he was, abided by all laws in purchasing his weapons.  He broke no laws in obtaining them.  The only GUN LAW he violated, besides killing 32 people, is possessing one on the college campus.  Making more gun laws or stricter enforcement of the current laws on the books, would not have saved one of those people.  Not one. 

Guns do not kill people!

Read that again.

Guns do not kill people!!  Crazy f@cking people kill people.

I have a conceal carry weapons permit (CCW) that allows me to carry a gun anytime, except in certain areas.  Govt. facilities, anywhere alchohol is served, schools, and state institutions are off limits.  I have several firearms (rifles, pistols, shotgun), and none of them have ever killed or wounded any person (animals not included).  I hunt on occasion, but generally don't even bring a weapon with me unless I know I am going to a place in my area where there could be a risk to my family or I. 

I went to college in a poor, run down city, and had guns in my dorm and appartment.  Think about this, if one or more students who had a CCW permit, like myself, who have taken the proper firearms courses, like I had to, and was carrying  a gun that day, or had one in their possesion (i.e. car or dorm room) do you think that 32 innocent people would have been killed?  certainly some would have, but the difference between going up against unarmed students, or trained students would have helped, not hurt.

I will finish by saying that I do not support anything that happened, I have loads of friends and neighbours who went to that school, and I have been there for football games.  I do not support gun ownership for any and all people, that is just not realistic.  I had a the benefit of growing up in a family that practiced responsible gun ownership and knowledge, I never had a toy gun, never thought they were cool....etc.  they are merely a tool.  a tool for use in required situations.  hammers don't hammer nails, unless people pick up the hammer and hit the nail with it.

[jeffiroquai]

How will the killer's family feel right now? especially his sister whose studying in another university (forgot which), I mean she is going to have a really bad time!

metal head, his sister is a graduate of Princeton.  She is no longer in college.

Suprisingly, she works for the US state dept. doing Iraqi reconstruction work, that not being the suprising part, the fact she is a contractor working for McNeil technologies, the company I started working for when I graduated college.

Really, I couldn't even imagine making that up.

[jeffiroquai]

one thing i do agree on metalhead is george bush, watching him address the university while talking about the innocent victimes just reeked of hypocrisy on a major scale coming from his mouth.

but the problem in the US mate is the constitution which say they all have a right to bear arms

You guys are right on the money with this.  F'in GW is glory hounding when all these kids are dead.  Meanwhile, his Army of conquest is in Iraq and Afghanistan doing the same thing every day.  Just till fill up the pockets of his Crusading gang of dip shiiiiites

[Dundalk]

If you havent got a gun in the first place you cant use it

[jeffiroquai]

If you havent got a gun in the first place you cant use it

Or protect yourself from someone who does......

[Dundalk]

Thats the trouble you all have one.

Its not like that over here, feck all people have a gun

Problem solved

[Sabre]

I think Jeffiroquai defended his position in a spotless way.

I can't argue his point, Guns do not kill people unless someone pulls the trigger.

However, I'd like to know what are the steps or what kind of tests he had to follow to obtain that permit.

My "concern" is based on the fact, that not having a criminal background, should not be enough to obtain a tool of that features. For instance, one person could be mentally healthy, but could overreact under a dangerous situation. If you catch somebody in your terrains suddenly, and you see a strange movement of the hand of the aggressor, IF you haven't got enough composture, you might think in that few seconds that he's going to use a weapon, react, and kill him, even if he had not weapons nor the will to attack you.

I have no doubts about the composture of Jaffiroquai despite I don't know him (he's a liverpool fan, wtf, he must be nice ). But my concern is about if those tools are given too easily or not. We all could fly a plane if somebody teaches us, but only those who pass thorough tests, have no physical problems, etc, are given the responsability of flying that tool of transport, as the lives of many people depend on that.

So that's why I'd be grateful if Jeffiroquai told us a bit more about the steps required to obtain a weapon.

[NiftyNeil]

Guns do not kill people!

Read that again.

Guns do not kill people!!  Crazy f@cking people kill people.

That's the problem in America, any crazy b@stard can buy one.

If a fucked up loner over here wanted to shoot the whole day down, he just couldn't. No gun = no shooting. Simple as.