Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:19 am

I'm talking about the Spain - England match.

I enjoyed the game, except for two things

a) Some tackles and Rooney's behaviour

b) The racist boo's of some of the attendance.

I must say about b) That we feel shame of that chants, and not only black people were insulted in those chants but the whole english team. Those attitudes are intolerable.

But I think I must make a point that is not being stated in your main papers: we Spanish as a whole are not that racist. The ones chanting Uh Uh Uh, are well known, they are the Real Madrid extreme right wing supporters. Indeed, the right wing is not on the political map of Spain, but they concentrate the efforts of being noticed trying to set their youth in the stadiums. Thus, many inner Spain teams have their own ultra group and they are traditionaly violent, right winged, racist ******. Sorry for that, I feel shame of those guys as a Spaniard, but it's unfair to state that the whole Spain is racist as some tabloids state.

On topic bit: I'd like to have seen Carraguer in the starting eleven. How can they possibly think some english that Lampard is ANY better than Gerrard? Alonso was well positioned, but didn't do much during the 45 mins that lasted the match (yep I think the substitutions ruined the game, and thus it was a 45 min friendly match, if friendly can be applied to two teams that have to maintain a reputation).

Bye! and I hope you understand my viewpoint.

Back to lurking.

Sabre

by **wiped** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:07 am

Cool , no worries man - you shouldn't feel the need to come on here and apologise for the acts of morons.

As for the game itself , I enjoyed watching it - Xavi was lively, Del Horno has probably the funniest name in football (I couldn't stop thinking of Beavis and Butthead

) , Beckham was his usual overhyped ****** self (the sooner people realise "celebrity does not equal talent" the better) , Nicky Butt was particularly ****** and all 'n' all I think England were left asking a lot of questions of themselves.

Friendlies with a bit of edge - great stuff.

by **andy_g** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:13 am

from what i heard - (of course, its only news i'm repeating) - is that the chants were coming from all round the ground. from kids aswell. maybe the ultras poison is working...

anyway, sabre, wiped is right. you don't need to apologise for the bahaviour of the cretins just becasue they're the same nationality. otherwise we'd never have to stop apologising for so many english knobheads.

i live in spain myself and love the spanish people and the country. and even though its a long way from anfield i see loads of liverpool games on tv. with all the spanish players and manager the spanish tv channels love us!

by **Redrider** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:33 am

Some apologies are due in return for the behaviour of Rooney on the pitch and some of the 'follow through' tackles by Cole, Lampard and Neville went well beyond the term 'Friendly'

by **Bruno Zidane!** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:53 am

Personally i think that complete boll0cks that only extreme right wing real madrid supporters were chanting, take a look at any of the pics from the game for the evidence, there was thousands chanting everytime SWP, cole etc etc got the ball inc. women and children, if that would have been englands supporters we could have waved bye bye to competing in the next world cup, but Spain will probably get away with a "now dont you do that again" as it would in italy......Fuc*in Disgrace

by **Sabre** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:08 am

Personally i think that complete boll0cks that only extreme right wing real madrid supporters were chanting,

It is true that it was about 1000-2000 people but not the whole stadium, and I can tell you that I owe no favour to Real Madrid supporters, the same bas_tards that boos the black players are the ones who call Real Sociedad 'terrorists' when they play at Madrid. They're absolute ******, one of our supporters was killed by knife, and they not only didn't respect a minute of silence but they cheered the killing. What can you expect from these people?

Another fair point might be why this people is allowed in some stadiums, reason for this is that some presidents such as Real Madrid's like to have this groups controlled instead of banning them. Normal people at stadiums just boo and whistle when they hear their ******, but do not "fight them" due to their violent intimidation (that is, if you say stop that, they'll hit you)

Why are those groups succesful? because they are the ones that actually chant

and some young idiots like to be part of it. They collect 16-21 year old ****** with simple minds. Normally those idiots end their ultra career at 25 when they find a girlfriend.

Thank you for saying no apologizes were necessary but I didn't want to Liverpool supporters think all Spain is the same way. Northern, southern, eastern, and western Spain are all different, both in culture and customs, and racism is installed more on some parts than others.

Sabre

by **Sabre** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:17 am

Also, I think you should not expect Spain being like England. I'm 28, that means I've lived in democracy all my life. But before this we hadn't a democracy but a 75 year ruling dictator. This dictator controlled schools, Tv and radio, and seeded Spanish people with lots of ******, including hate to France, England, Russia or anything it's not Spanish.

Then you can expect a 70 year old man saying the things he said

Also bear in mind that it is normal you hace more anti racist thoughts, we haven't had multiraces society here for LOTS of years, people didn't emigrate to Spain, just the opposite. Now Spain is beginning to be a country receiving foreign people, and that's something Uk is used to far before than us.

Add the "language" differences and you have the great shock you are experiencing. What I mean with "language" differences?, in Spanish black man is not peyorative, and neither is "Shitty", I mean we add "shitty" just like you add "bloody" to some words, thus we say "shitty defence" "shitty attack" and shitty blacks

This is not a justification, I hate racism with all my soul, I just wanted to make the point that context must be understood, and Spain is a young democracy that still has to clean some bad habits.

Sabre

by **XSD** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:20 pm

The chants were all over the ground start to finish. It wasn't just at one game it was the U21s the night before too.
It doesn't really matter about apologies, I understand this is not representative of all Spanish people, but too many are clearly uneducated and uncivilized.
Spanish football has lost respect all over the world from this, and the harsher the penalty the better. I would fully support an entire season long ban for Spanish clubs and the national side from any kind of European/international matches.

If that means all the Spanish teams out of the Champions League and no WC qualification for Spain then so be it.
Unfortunately this is unlikely to happen, but I really want to see something done about it, not just letting it slide away.

by **anfieldroad** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:00 pm

perhaps we should invade them with a military coalition?

by **ralmach** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:00 pm

XSD wrote:I would fully support an entire season long ban for Spanish clubs and the national side from any kind of European/international matches.

Ok, so let's ban english clubs and national too, every time hooligans detroy pubs wherever they go or everytime english papers say that spanish girls has moustache and smells badly as "the sun" wrote in euro 96.

And of course let's ban italians club's becouse of the chants in Rome (Lazio), in Perugia, even with death threats to their own players. we can ban the netherlands clubs too, becouse of the racist chants in a game 2 weeks ago, Even the macth had to be suspended by the jew refree. And i could continue with all europeans leagues...

After all, will play the CL the Vaticano teams, and everybody happy.

:glare:

by **greenred** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:13 pm

You cant ban Spanish teams because of the actions of the few.England fans have been running riot across europe for twenty years without being punished once.Its a bit rich asking FIFA to throw the book at the Spanish over this one incident.

by **Ciggy** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:15 pm

True

The behaviour and antics of england fans over the years makes you embarrssed that your from here

by **Pig Catcher** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:17 pm

I think it would have been a nice gesture if the spanish team walked off the pitch in protest of the abuse.

by **tonkatsu** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:07 pm

As Spanish I am also embarrassed by that happened and I apologize for it. I would like to add an extract of an interview published in the daily "AS" to Esteban Ibarra. President of the Movement against the Intolerance:

Q:Who is the responsible for the Santiago's events Bernabéu?

A:Without place to the doubt, the main ones responsible were those that played them, in this case a group ultra denominated National Pride that is the fork of the rest of ultra of other teams when it plays the Selection. They already acted in Portugal. But it is lamentable the forecast lack that there was, since the movement was organized through Internet and the screams were perfectly synchronized. Until in the party of the Sub-21 in Alcalá it had altercated.

Q:Did the FEF know about the existence of this group?

A:The leaders of the FEF are fully aware of the existence of this group that accompanies to the Selection and they have not made anything against these ultra ones. But there are multiple responsibilities. The main one, that of the Ministry of Interior that so much with the previous Government as with the current one he/she has not made anything to avoid this. And it is not a problem of modification of the law, but simply of will of applying it. But neither it is necessary to forget the presidents of the clubs who, I save in the case of that of the Barcelona, they are not adopting measures to eradicate the violence. It is incomprehensible that we meet with this permissiveness.

Q:In what measure have Aragonese Luis' declarations contributed to that happened?

A:Man, Luis is a sage in soccer, but not in the social aspect. Their declarations, in the two moments in that have taken place, have had an important transcendency and they have been used by the ultra ones. If the ultra ones already wanted to make noise and the trainer also says what said, when he could have settled the polemic otherwise...

I hope all this is useful so that in Spain they change the things and these groups are eradicated. :down:

by **the great one** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:13 am

is this the group rafael benitez was talking about at the press confrence pre boro game ? are they well known in spain what could be done to stop them.Do they have a power over the real madrid board so they can't be kicked out

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