Argentina vs brazil world cup qualifier

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Postby maguskwt » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:11 am

Argentina 1 - Brazil 3 right now

Even with so much talent in the side, Argentina are playing really cluelessly... Madonna is doing quite a bad job coaching the team. They are just trying to penetrate a packed Brazilian defence from the middle in vain. Also there's a lack of height in the team that is also probably why they're not using the wings and put crosses in...
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Postby LFC2007 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:29 am

It was on f'ing late here but well worth staying up for.

Classic example of how a team can remain in control of a game while being less dominant in possession - that's Brazil I'm talking about. Tactically they hit the nail on the head - kept it tight, blocked off the central areas and hit on the counter to devastating effect.

The two holding midfielders, disciplined and obviously well up for it, combined with a well organised, aerially dominant back four that presented a block that Argenitina failed miserably to break down. This set the platform for the win.

Up until the Luisao opener, you'd have to say Argentina were the better side without ever really threatening a great deal in and about the area; a half chance or two at best. When it came, Luisao's header was excellent, but the marking was appalling. It was literally non-existent - the guy was about 5 yards clear of everyone and totally unchallenged. For the second goal too, the Argentine defence were embarrassingly slow in sensing the threat from Kaka and Fabiano.

I was expecting a serious reaction from Argentina in the second half, but it didn't materialise for a few reasons. As noted, Brazil were outstanding as a defensive unit - seldom did the two holders depart and leave gaps for Messi, Tevez, and later Aguero to exploit, and so irrespective of the personnel involved, to breach such a well-drilled defensive unit was never going to be easy. As it panned out, Argentina's pattern of play was very condensed. In the main they sought to play through the middle, where Messi, Aguero and Tevez occupied were looking to penetrate, but even these players found that very tough. Only Messi really created anything of note and even then, it took some marvelous skill to elicit a half-chance. The problem was, Maxi had done nothing in the first half and was rightly brought off for Aguero. Ok, I thought, but he then moved central and there was no outlet wide right. I can only remember Zanetti - the RB -venturing forward once in the entire game - probably well aware that they would leave a dodgy centre-half pairing exposed to Kaka and co. A bit like Johnson having to keep tabs on Ashley Young against Villa. At timea Veron was near the edge of the box with acres of space to his right, but nobody there. Aguero should've looked to drift into this space, while Zanetti should have got forward more often. Wide left was marginally more open, yet Heinze was never going to offer much since he hasn't the legs any more, and isn't a predominantly attacking full back in any case, while the left mid - Dolatero (or whatever his name is) often came inside. This had the effect of limiting their options drastically. At times it reminded me of some of our play against Villa.

The goal came eventually, but it was simply a 35yrd wonder-strike that Brazil could do virtually nothing about. To which came an instant reply, anyway, with a genuinely world-class move that I'd urge people to see. The turn, the through-ball by Kaka and the dinked finish over the keeper by Fabiano equalled a stunning move.

Overall it was an Argentina side that lacked far too much. Defensively they were all over the place, the midfield was often laboured and lacked ideas - the lack of effective movement didn't help - and it all relied on the creative and world-class abilities of Messi. The best TEAMS will always prevail, regardless of whether you put Messi, Tevez and Aguero up front. It has to have balance, and it didn't. Whether you put them under instruction to pull wide more often, or you change it up and play with natural wide players - I don't know, but it was glaringly obvious that they lacked width and that's seomthing Maradona didn't respond too - instead he brought on a big man up front to little effect. Without width, Messi, Tevez and Aguero were never going to find sufficient space to pose a consistent threat to Brazil. That's how tight they kept it. Then - as is always the case in these tactical scenarios - when in desperation, balls were pumped into the box, there wasn't the aerial power to even remotely test Luisao, Lucio and co.

Re Mascherano, he didn't really do much, when he was involved he was pretty ordinary AT BEST. He fouled quite often with some poorly timed challenges and might have had a yellow early than actually turned out, while in a forward sense he contributed next to nothing. Veron took on more of the possession duties, but he didn't have the legs needed against such an energetic Brazil side. Slow and abit dull from midfield.
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Postby maguskwt » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:51 pm

LFC2007 wrote:It was on f'ing late here but well worth staying up for.

Classic example of how a team can remain in control of a game while being less dominant in possession - that's Brazil I'm talking about. Tactically they hit the nail on the head - kept it tight, blocked off the central areas and hit on the counter to devastating effect.

The two holding midfielders, disciplined and obviously well up for it, combined with a well organised, aerially dominant back four that presented a block that Argenitina failed miserably to break down. This set the platform for the win.

Up until the Luisao opener, you'd have to say Argentina were the better side without ever really threatening a great deal in and about the area; a half chance or two at best. When it came, Luisao's header was excellent, but the marking was appalling. It was literally non-existent - the guy was about 5 yards clear of everyone and totally unchallenged. For the second goal too, the Argentine defence were embarrassingly slow in sensing the threat from Kaka and Fabiano.

I was expecting a serious reaction from Argentina in the second half, but it didn't materialise for a few reasons. As noted, Brazil were outstanding as a defensive unit - seldom did the two holders depart and leave gaps for Messi, Tevez, and later Aguero to exploit, and so irrespective of the personnel involved, to breach such a well-drilled defensive unit was never going to be easy. As it panned out, Argentina's pattern of play was very condensed. In the main they sought to play through the middle, where Messi, Aguero and Tevez occupied were looking to penetrate, but even these players found that very tough. Only Messi really created anything of note and even then, it took some marvelous skill to elicit a half-chance. The problem was, Maxi had done nothing in the first half and was rightly brought off for Aguero. Ok, I thought, but he then moved central and there was no outlet wide right. I can only remember Zanetti - the RB -venturing forward once in the entire game - probably well aware that they would leave a dodgy centre-half pairing exposed to Kaka and co. A bit like Johnson having to keep tabs on Ashley Young against Villa. At timea Veron was near the edge of the box with acres of space to his right, but nobody there. Aguero should've looked to drift into this space, while Zanetti should have got forward more often. Wide left was marginally more open, yet Heinze was never going to offer much since he hasn't the legs any more, and isn't a predominantly attacking full back in any case, while the left mid - Dolatero (or whatever his name is) often came inside. This had the effect of limiting their options drastically. At times it reminded me of some of our play against Villa.

The goal came eventually, but it was simply a 35yrd wonder-strike that Brazil could do virtually nothing about. To which came an instant reply, anyway, with a genuinely world-class move that I'd urge people to see. The turn, the through-ball by Kaka and the dinked finish over the keeper by Fabiano equalled a stunning move.

Overall it was an Argentina side that lacked far too much. Defensively they were all over the place, the midfield was often laboured and lacked ideas - the lack of effective movement didn't help - and it all relied on the creative and world-class abilities of Messi. The best TEAMS will always prevail, regardless of whether you put Messi, Tevez and Aguero up front. It has to have balance, and it didn't. Whether you put them under instruction to pull wide more often, or you change it up and play with natural wide players - I don't know, but it was glaringly obvious that they lacked width and that's seomthing Maradona didn't respond too - instead he brought on a big man up front to little effect. Without width, Messi, Tevez and Aguero were never going to find sufficient space to pose a consistent threat to Brazil. That's how tight they kept it. Then - as is always the case in these tactical scenarios - when in desperation, balls were pumped into the box, there wasn't the aerial power to even remotely test Luisao, Lucio and co.

Re Mascherano, he didn't really do much, when he was involved he was pretty ordinary AT BEST. He fouled quite often with some poorly timed challenges and might have had a yellow early than actually turned out, while in a forward sense he contributed next to nothing. Veron took on more of the possession duties, but he didn't have the legs needed against such an energetic Brazil side. Slow and abit dull from midfield.

Very good assessment LFC and I agree with every single point.

With regards to the 3rd goal I agree it was a world class play. Kaka in my books is probably the best player in the world right now and not Ronaldo or Messi. I can tell you that Ronaldo won't be just as successful or influential in Real than he was in Man United but Kaka will be as successful or influential as he was in Milan. Btw that Fabiano lad looks like a pretty good striker. Wouldn't mind if we bought him.
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Postby tubby » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:23 pm

Here is that goal if anyone wants to download it.

http://www.multiupload.com/FOX9F5E7G5
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Postby Greavesie » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:00 pm

I'm just hoping Portugal don't qualify, p!ss of nancy boy. Imagine him and Messi not at the WC
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Postby Owzat » Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:06 pm

Greavesie wrote:I'm just hoping Portugal don't qualify, p!ss of nancy boy. Imagine him and Messi not at the WC

Looking like a three horse race between Hungary (13 pts), Sweden (12 pts) and Portugal (10 pts) for second and the play-off that goes with it. All have played seven games, Portugal play Malta and Hungary at home, Hungary away so the Hungary double header may decide the place or could leave the door open for Sweden

Should wins

Albania vs Denmark
Sweden vs Albania
Malta vs Sweden
Portugal vs Malta

Decisive?

Portugal vs Hungary
Hungary vs Portugal
Denmark vs Hungary
Denmark vs Sweden

Scope for Denmark to be caught, but their two testing games are both at home
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Postby Big Niall » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:24 pm

maguskwt wrote:... Madonna is doing quite a bad job coaching the team.

I don't know how she got the job, average singer. Maradonna would have been a much better choice. :p
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Postby NANNY RED » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:51 pm

Cant wait now for the game later its on at 12 , they need a win , ill feel dead sorry for Javier though if he doesnt get to go SA,

Maradona managing them is like me managing us , loves them with all his heart , but just doesnt cut it as a coach of that level,

hes better off sticking to the lines im afraid :;):
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Postby LFC2007 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:41 pm

I'm on it too Nan. What a massive game for them. Paraguay have been very consistent in their qualifying campaign and the pressure on the Argies is huge. I can see Paraguay scoring so they'll have to get a couple at least, IMO.
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Postby NANNY RED » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:44 pm

LFC2007 wrote:I'm on it too Nan. What a massive game for them. Paraguay have been very consistent in their qualifying campaign and the pressure on the Argies is huge. I can see Paraguay scoring so they'll have to get a couple at least, IMO.

Im just hoping Javier comes out of it alrite , you know what hes like , me heart will be in me mouth incase he goes off his head on them tackles an does damage to himself, really worried for this game.
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Postby LFC2007 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:52 pm

Scotch?
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Postby NANNY RED » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:55 pm

Brandy :laugh: Hennesy please
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Postby NANNY RED » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:07 am

Calm down Javier lad fknhell :(
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Postby NANNY RED » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:32 am

What a goal from that Valdez . great build up play, i really like this player ,
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Postby LFC2007 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:13 am

1-0 FT

A very solid performance from Paraguay. Great team goal they scored. Excellent interplay between cabanas and the other two, and what a finish by the long-haired bloke. They hit the bar twice before that too. This was a comfortable 1-0 for them, very rarely threatened at the back and dangerous on the counter.

Argentina were appalling again, worse than they were in the Brazil game even. They created next to f'uck all and were generally very, very, very poor. They lacked direction, shape, fluidity, belief etc...the whole performance was just bad news. By the sounds of things Maradona is about to get the sack and that doesn't surprise me at all. With the talent he has at his disposal they shouldn't be turning out performances like that. It was woeful by their standards. They were :censored: in the extreme, basically.
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