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Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Kenny Kan » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:02 am

Reg » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:54 pm wrote:Kenny, I don't remember you answering my question (the one you highlight in your Sig)? After 5 loses in 6 games its pertinent to ask again, are Kenny's 2012 football management skills better than Woy's? Right now I'd say no. There are a hundred reason's why Kenny's a better man than Woy, but his football management skills appear to be lacking. I don't mind questioning or coming out with the words but I assume those who have either walked away from the forum recently or really dropped their posting share similar concerns.

Edit, just to get the record straight on one thing, when I started going on the Kop it was 1 quid to get in so stick the internet fan reference up your Khyber.  :ghostface:



Your question isn't "pertinent" and therefore the Wummery which underlies it doesn't warrant a response. The fickleness of your posts aren't mutually exclusive to the sky.internet generation fan.

You bemoaned lakes' thread "should Kenny be sacked" by questioning it's very existence implying such talk was even a non-starter, yet here in my sig you question whether Kenny is any better than "Woy". The fact you paid a quid to stand on the Kop doesn't mean you aren't fickle old chap - have a word with yourself.  :ghostface:
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Postby Reg » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:46 am

Kenny, I've never said I wanted the real Kenny sacked hence I told Lakes his thread was a load of laundrette tittle tattle but Lakes is used to that.

I would say that Kenny's current results do draw a parallel with Woy's and therefore a comparison is not unwarranted.

What would YOU say is the main difference between KK's recent results and Woy's, what differentiates these mighty managers and what makes Kenny's loses better value?
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Postby Kenny Kan » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:10 am

What would YOU say is the main difference between KK's recent results and Woy's, what differentiates these mighty managers and what makes Kenny's loses better value?


Performances Reg, performances.

While the 'games lost' stat doesn't discriminate between KD and Roy's stats - or any other manager for that matter, the performances do. Apart from the absolute shambolic display against Wigan on Sat'day, Tottenham earlier in in the season and possibly a couple of others, if that! Our performances have improved 10 fold.

For instance, our back four now don't sit on the six yard line with the midfield on the eighteen yard line while our striker is looking for long aimless balls pumped up to the center circle for him. We DON'T play total negative football with a manager who quips before a game, "I hope we don't get beat 6-0 by Citeh". We DON'T use tactics for games that set us up to fail, we don't play aimless route one stuff as we baton down the hatches against likes of Stoke and invite pressure on from 'smaller teams'.

Under Kenny, we play to win, we do take the game to our opponents, with attacking and expansive, one-two-touch football (most of the time), we just lack cutting edge and have really missed Agger of late. I can see, we're heading in the right direction and will afford much more time and patience to Kenny  - in contrast to the abyss we ended up under Roy, who btw I actually afforded time and patience with. Until (after the Blackburn result or some other sorry loss around that time), Andy Grey and hairy Keys interviewed him from the studio and Grey said - 'So the league title is now out of the question Roy' which prompted the old codger to laugh with Key's and Grey at the situation LFC found themselves in. All three had a chuckle about the sarcastic question Grey posed - Hodgson being a Liverpool manager shouldn't have even entertained the question, let alone finding it funny about the team's plight.
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Postby stmichael » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:00 pm

modern day football is a sad state of affairs imo. i love this club but i absolutely despise the modern game, from the ridiculous money players get paid to the fickleness of the modern day fan. it started when rafa was here and we had muppets booing after we had just gone top of the league. i said when kenny came back that although i was delighted, as soon as we had a bad run of results, the same people who turned on houllier and rafa would turn on him, and hence here we are. less than a year into his reign as full time manager we have some fans questioning his future. fans always know better than the manager. you only have to listen to the whoppers who phone up 606 or talksport to know that, even though most of them have probably never been to a game in their life. people expect everything to be put right overnight these days and it's not that simple. this club nearly went into administration 18 months ago ffs.
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Postby heimdall » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:28 pm

Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:31 pm wrote:I do hope Kenny turns things around, but the utter contempt shown for the man particularly on the club's official forum is nothing short of abhorrent. Some of our fellow supporters simply do not understand what the term "supporter" means. Fingers crossed that Kenny gets things right in the summer and turns things around next season, because I am not sure I can bear another season like the last three we've had.


So we have to rely on luck that he gets it right rather than trust his managerial savy, that kind of says it all. He is fumbling around in the dark without a proper plan. I'm all for giving managers a chance but after 1 and a half years you'd expect a manager to have a bit more of a clue than Kenny has and that we'd be moving in the right direction, IN TERMS OF THE LEAGUE. We have lost an insane number of games this season and Kenny persists in his outdated 1-dimensional tactics with no concept of a plan B and pairing that up with the wrong players, like Carra and Henderson when the whole world can see that they are beyond *****.

As for support, I support the club not the manager or any individual player, in other words I'm a fan of LFC not a fan of Kenny.
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Postby heimdall » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:33 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:22 pm wrote:
Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:16 pm wrote:Dalglish is ultimately the manager and so the responsibility rests on his shoulders, if he didn't want the likes of Adam, Carroll, Downing and Henderson brought into the club then I am sure he would have void his disapproval. Why should the owners get the blame? They have done what they said they would do and offer large scale investment into players and they've kept their word. Comolli role as Director of Football is something I know virtually nothing about, but what I do know is that Comolli doesn't pick the team selection, doesn't organise formations and tactics, that's Kenny & Clark's job to do that. Passing the buck won't help matters, it's a bit like how some supporters used to blame Hicks and Gillett for Rafa's transfer dealings, his team selections and such, it just doesn't wash.

There are some supporters who go way over the top with their criticism of the manager and then there are those who never criticise the manager at all, they're just as bad in my eyes. Dalglish is responsible for much of what has happened this season in terms of performances and results. He knows Henderson is virtually rendered useless on the right wing and yet is persistant in playing him there. He knows Adam has been abysmal this season and yet is still adamant on playing him, the same with Downing and all the while he has Bellamy, Kuyt and Maxi waiting in the wings who are far better players. This is the man who had Aquilani and Meireles and got rid of them both. So let's not pretend that Kenny isn't largely responsible for what has been a largely dire season.


kenny has made mistakes this season but there`s no way on earth the signings were all 100% his, thats what i object to, when fans say he`s wasted 100m he`s got to go. he was in the job about 2 weeks when carroll and suarez signed ffs. that was nearly 60m of this 100m he`s supposed to have wasted.
a part time manager given 60m to spend on whoever he wants? no chance, not many people thought kenny was going to get the job permanently back then, no way do they give him 60m to spend.


How do you know he had no part in those signings? In any case lets take them out of the equation, what are your excuses for Kenny in regards to Henderson, Adam and Downing?
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:55 pm

heimdall » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:33 pm wrote:
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:22 pm wrote:
Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:16 pm wrote:Dalglish is ultimately the manager and so the responsibility rests on his shoulders, if he didn't want the likes of Adam, Carroll, Downing and Henderson brought into the club then I am sure he would have void his disapproval. Why should the owners get the blame? They have done what they said they would do and offer large scale investment into players and they've kept their word. Comolli role as Director of Football is something I know virtually nothing about, but what I do know is that Comolli doesn't pick the team selection, doesn't organise formations and tactics, that's Kenny & Clark's job to do that. Passing the buck won't help matters, it's a bit like how some supporters used to blame Hicks and Gillett for Rafa's transfer dealings, his team selections and such, it just doesn't wash.

There are some supporters who go way over the top with their criticism of the manager and then there are those who never criticise the manager at all, they're just as bad in my eyes. Dalglish is responsible for much of what has happened this season in terms of performances and results. He knows Henderson is virtually rendered useless on the right wing and yet is persistant in playing him there. He knows Adam has been abysmal this season and yet is still adamant on playing him, the same with Downing and all the while he has Bellamy, Kuyt and Maxi waiting in the wings who are far better players. This is the man who had Aquilani and Meireles and got rid of them both. So let's not pretend that Kenny isn't largely responsible for what has been a largely dire season.



kenny has made mistakes this season but there`s no way on earth the signings were all 100% his, thats what i object to, when fans say he`s wasted 100m he`s got to go. he was in the job about 2 weeks when carroll and suarez signed ffs. that was nearly 60m of this 100m he`s supposed to have wasted.
a part time manager given 60m to spend on whoever he wants? no chance, not many people thought kenny was going to get the job permanently back then, no way do they give him 60m to spend.


How do you know he had no part in those signings? In any case lets take them out of the equation, what are your excuses for Kenny in regards to Henderson, Adam and Downing?


i never said he had no part in those signings, i said that he wasnt 100% to blame for them.
does this sound like it was 100% kenny`s call - http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-apply-methods-of-baseball-scout-Billy-Beane-of-Moneyball-fame-to-choose-new-players-article811072.html
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Postby stmichael » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:01 pm

heimdall » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:28 pm wrote:
Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:31 pm wrote:I do hope Kenny turns things around, but the utter contempt shown for the man particularly on the club's official forum is nothing short of abhorrent. Some of our fellow supporters simply do not understand what the term "supporter" means. Fingers crossed that Kenny gets things right in the summer and turns things around next season, because I am not sure I can bear another season like the last three we've had.


So we have to rely on luck that he gets it right rather than trust his managerial savy, that kind of says it all. He is fumbling around in the dark without a proper plan. I'm all for giving managers a chance but after 1 and a half years you'd expect a manager to have a bit more of a clue than Kenny has and that we'd be moving in the right direction, IN TERMS OF THE LEAGUE. We have lost an insane number of games this season and Kenny persists in his outdated 1-dimensional tactics with no concept of a plan B and pairing that up with the wrong players, like Carra and Henderson when the whole world can see that they are beyond *****.

As for support, I support the club not the manager or any individual player, in other words I'm a fan of LFC not a fan of Kenny.


i'd be more worried if the team were playing dross week in week out. wigan at home was easily the worst home display this season. stoke at home was poor. every other game at home we're largely battered teams and but for poor finishing or keepers having worldies we'd have far more points. that's nothing to do with the manager. away from home, man city, man united and bolton we were poor and the last 15 minutes at QPR were a joke but we've had decent results aswell. battered the likes of stoke and somehow failed to get anything, won away at arsenal, chelsea and everton. beat man city away in the cup. it's not as if we've been playing awful.

the thing is, everything nowadays in analysed to the nth degree. football phone ins, sky sports news, journalists thinking that fans should give a monkeys about their opinions. the problem is a lot of fans take what these guys say as gospel. it was beyond a joke when rafa was here "rotation, zonal marking, doesn't show emotion blah blah blah". now it's "kenny's out of touch with modern day football" and his handling of the media is poor because he doesn't suck up to them like redknapp for example .
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:19 pm

stmichael » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:01 pm wrote:
heimdall » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:28 pm wrote:
Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:31 pm wrote:I do hope Kenny turns things around, but the utter contempt shown for the man particularly on the club's official forum is nothing short of abhorrent. Some of our fellow supporters simply do not understand what the term "supporter" means. Fingers crossed that Kenny gets things right in the summer and turns things around next season, because I am not sure I can bear another season like the last three we've had.


So we have to rely on luck that he gets it right rather than trust his managerial savy, that kind of says it all. He is fumbling around in the dark without a proper plan. I'm all for giving managers a chance but after 1 and a half years you'd expect a manager to have a bit more of a clue than Kenny has and that we'd be moving in the right direction, IN TERMS OF THE LEAGUE. We have lost an insane number of games this season and Kenny persists in his outdated 1-dimensional tactics with no concept of a plan B and pairing that up with the wrong players, like Carra and Henderson when the whole world can see that they are beyond *****.

As for support, I support the club not the manager or any individual player, in other words I'm a fan of LFC not a fan of Kenny.


i'd be more worried if the team were playing dross week in week out. wigan at home was easily the worst home display this season. stoke at home was poor. every other game at home we're largely battered teams and but for poor finishing or keepers having worldies we'd have far more points. that's nothing to do with the manager. away from home, man city, man united and bolton we were poor and the last 15 minutes at QPR were a joke but we've had decent results aswell. battered the likes of stoke and somehow failed to get anything, won away at arsenal, chelsea and everton. beat man city away in the cup. it's not as if we've been playing awful.

the thing is, everything nowadays in analysed to the nth degree. football phone ins, sky sports news, journalists thinking that fans should give a monkeys about their opinions. the problem is a lot of fans take what these guys say as gospel. it was beyond a joke when rafa was here "rotation, zonal marking, doesn't show emotion blah blah blah". now it's "kenny's out of touch with modern day football" and his handling of the media is poor because he doesn't suck up to them like redknapp for example .


well said mate, houllier made the mistake of trying become friends with a few of the journo`s over here but once the wins started to dry up they were on him like a pack of hyena`s, apparently he was hurt by their comments because he thought they were his mates.
dalglish knows they are all a bunch of two faced *****.
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Postby Thommo's perm » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:23 pm

You forgot hypocritical
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Postby redtrader74 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:24 pm

heimdall » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:28 pm wrote:
Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:31 pm wrote:I do hope Kenny turns things around, but the utter contempt shown for the man particularly on the club's official forum is nothing short of abhorrent. Some of our fellow supporters simply do not understand what the term "supporter" means. Fingers crossed that Kenny gets things right in the summer and turns things around next season, because I am not sure I can bear another season like the last three we've had.


So we have to rely on luck that he gets it right rather than trust his managerial savy, that kind of says it all. He is fumbling around in the dark without a proper plan. I'm all for giving managers a chance but after 1 and a half years you'd expect a manager to have a bit more of a clue than Kenny has and that we'd be moving in the right direction, IN TERMS OF THE LEAGUE. We have lost an insane number of games this season and Kenny persists in his outdated 1-dimensional tactics with no concept of a plan B and pairing that up with the wrong players, like Carra and Henderson when the whole world can see that they are beyond *****.

As for support, I support the club not the manager or any individual player, in other words I'm a fan of LFC not a fan of
Kenny.


Fumbling around in the dark??  seriously you must be on a wind up, at least have a modicum of respect for Kenny, you really cant know what he means to Liverpool supporters. We've had 4 actual bad performances this season, thats really all, you should get to the game once in while, because you'd see how much we dominate the possession and how many chances we create.

We've missed about 8 penalties this season, Kennys fault? Hit the fcking woodwork about 25 times, Kennys fault? Had the most corners, created the second or third most chances in the league.....all managed by a 'clueless fumbling outdated manager' Your contempt for Kenny is the personification of fickleness, question his abilities with constructive reasoned, even logical arguments rather than that drivel.

Logically Carrolls purchase could not have been down to Kenny, he may have said I'd like to have him, but there is no chance that an interim manager of about 2 weeks would have been allowed to sanction the record breaking transfer of Carroll. Adam, Henderson, Downing, Bellamy and Enrique could fairly be attributed to Kenny, as by this time he was the permanent manager, but the purchase price would likely have been a matter for Comolli, seeing as that's his job.

Of these 5 players, IMHO Downing has been the biggest disappointment, HE hasn't performed to the level he has shown in the Premiership over the last 5-7 years, and you could blame Kenny in part for occasionally playing him out on the right, but this guy is seasoned pro, an International who needs to get back to playing how he can, and sort himself out.

Henderson seems devoid of confidence, and I think he will come good eventually in the middle, but unfortunately has played too often due to Lucas' and Gerrards injuries. Adam is what he is, a mediocre player, we took a chance and have found that he is a £6-8m sqaud player at best. I still think that the players can all still gel and get things right, the indications are there with the wins against Manu, city, Arsenal, Chelsea and Everton showing us what is possible with these players and 'clueless' manager.

We need to give Kenny at least another season, he'd leave himself if he felt he couldn't do the job justice.
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Postby Thommo's perm » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:39 pm

Good post
Some of these people are a disgrace to this club. If they think that the unfair and disrespectful criticism of KK is acceptable then they are no fans of LFC.
I for one didnt want KK to come back for various reasons. But once he was brought in he had, and still has my 100% support. We are going through a bad patch at the moment but for much of the season we have been in the top 6, if not the top 4. So now things have got tough, the weak get going with their hysterical, "change the manager" cries. Do us all a favour and follow Torres to the west end you gang of imbeciles.
KK deserves our full and unequivical support, especially at this testing time and if you dont understand that, you are simply not worthy of calling yourself a Liverpool fan
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:18 pm

Imagine for one minute, we find ourselves back in those halcyon days when we backed the managers judgement ,and we trusted him to  deliver 100%.
Well the same could be said about the manager trusting the supporters to back him through the hard times and trust in him being the right choice for
the clubs rise back to prominence . 

However, it seems patience is proving a very rare commodity with today's 'we want it now'  brigade. So to highlight the benefit of patience
lets take one players career specifically .

Just  imagine if the fans had booed Terry McDermott  on his debut ,I mean the lad was signed in 74 never scored his first goal till 75 and because of a
handful of indifferent performances  failed to cement his place in the team till 1977 ,but he became a truly special player, ffs he had goal of the season
wrapped up practically every year .

He helped us secure our first ever European Cup ,and was a huge influence on us retaining it in 78 and involved in our success in 81,now I'm not saying
we would have lost without him , I'm just saying he was part of our illustrious history.

I can remember my Dad after seeing a particularly inept performance proclaiming "He's a grafter that Lad ,Hopeless ,but a bloody grafter "   :laugh:
It was our patience that gave these players the chance to grow ....The Sky generation and their intolerance have taken those traits away from the
game completely .
Its just I always thought Pirlo was Italian.
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Postby Dalglish » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:53 pm

Thommo's perm » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:56 am[/url]"]Theres no doubt that fans have changed over the years and we are victims of our own success.
I can understand impatience, frustration and anger, but I would seriously kick out anyone who boos.
Booing is a sh'ithouse act and opposite to what being a supporter is about. If you dont like it, dont go. Those who stand there like a cu'nt making noises to show their contempt should fu'ck off.
Its as simple as that[/quote]

I agree with this, I support LFC and can criticise the players as well discuss their shortcomings but I'd never slate them as far as some do.

I'm currently getting a lot of sh!t for supporting Liverpool but I will 100% remain dignified. One of the first things I learnt about supporting this club was to be humble in success and gracious in defeat. That's pretty much the one principle I follow anyway[/quote]


I have my own antedote when I feel like I'm going through the Wind and the Rain as a Liverpool Fan............I go MORE games !  :wwww

Let me explain. We share 2 season tickets between 4 of us so I get to go one every other HOME game. 2 of us go to as many AWAY games as time and money will allow (11 aways last season).

Today I pitched up at Anfield and bought Blackburn away tickets and tomorrow we are elligible for Newcastle away tkts so will get a couple of them too.

Its my ( masochistic I know) way of supporting my team when times are tough.

It's EASY to follow to Reds when their winning. In my opinion SUPPORTERS go when times are tough, FOLLOWERS go when its easy !


Walk on ................Its what we (supporters) do  :rasp
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Postby Boxscarf » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:15 am

heimdall » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:28 pm wrote:
So we have to rely on luck that he gets it right rather than trust his managerial savy, that kind of says it all. He is fumbling around in the dark without a proper plan. I'm all for giving managers a chance but after 1 and a half years you'd expect a manager to have a bit more of a clue than Kenny has and that we'd be moving in the right direction, IN TERMS OF THE LEAGUE. We have lost an insane number of games this season and Kenny persists in his outdated 1-dimensional tactics with no concept of a plan B and pairing that up with the wrong players, like Carra and Henderson when the whole world can see that they are beyond *****.

As for support, I support the club not the manager or any individual player, in other words I'm a fan of LFC not a fan of Kenny.


Who said anything about luck? I never used luck in my post, once. 

I believe in Kenny like I believed in Rafa before him and Houllier before him. I support our managers because I know what a hard job they have do, yes Kenny has made mistakes this season and I fully expect him to learn from them and I fully expect him to change our direction in the summer. He definitely needs to go back to the drawing board and make the essential changes that are necessary.

Here's this holier than thou attitude again that comes out of a lot of supporters mouths. Kenny deserves respect from supporters, criticising someone doesn't mean a lack of respect, but some of the comments over on the official forums about Kenny wouldn't have been made by supporters who watched Kenny in the 80's etc. They're made by pretentious, self-righteous little brats who live in a fantasy world where they have been brought up of tales from the 70's and 80's and believe that Liverpool have a divine right to reach such a pinnacle again, that's not how life works, unfortunately. For the last two decades bar a few seasons we've been dire in the league. We made countless errors in transfer dealings and dealings at higher levels involving sponsorships, stadium plans etc. So we're struggling, but the answer is not to continuously change the manager. I still think we should have stuck with Benitez, but one poor season and a large number of the "supporters" of this club were ringing into talk shows, posting on 606 and forums around the Internet, disrespecting Rafa and wanting a change. In comes Hodgson and within a few weeks supporters are ringing in talk shows and posting on forums about how Hodgson is inept and needs to be replaced. The same thing is happening with Kenny. This is not support, this is behaving like a spoilt brat who throws a hissy fit when things aren't going they way they want them to.

Jeering players in the stands is not support, it does nothing to improve the fortunes of our club. And no I don't believe I'm a holier than thou supporter, I am just a regular supporter who like you is disappointed about our league form this season, but unlike you knows that constantly changing the manager doesn't work.
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