Liverpool FC Forum

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:50 pm

Ray Clemence was an exceptional keeper ...but he also had a formidable and settled defence in front of him as did Grobs ,which has very rarely been the case for Pepe

by **andy_g** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:11 pm

the head says it should be clemence who was in a similar position with shilton as pepe is with cassillas. he really was an oustanding keeper and maybe technically the best we ever had. however, being an ex-keeper myself i understand that to really qualify as a top top keeper you also have to be a bit bonkers (i wasn't quite bonkers enough, sadly) so its between grobs and pepe. out of those two it has to be pepe for me - for his ability, his character and his treacle like singing voice.

by **lakes10** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:11 pm

Reg wrote:Lee its in his book, off you go to town.

Lakes, I'm surprised Pepe's goy such a lead in the poll as whilst he's a good keeper, Clemo who conceded just 16 goals in his best season of 42 games was technically the better man. Maybe folks are too young to remember Clem - probably the case seeing I forgot Jerzy!

why be shocked mate?
its the same as everything when you ask who is best.

like if you ask anyone a few years back what was the best film ever, most put Titanic.

the best group ever....that changed from Take that to Boyzone to god knew who.

most will pick the person that is current, its the flaw with any polls like this.

if he was not in the poll then you would have a lot more votes for Bruce, again as most on here he is the first keeper they knew.

Clemo for me was one of the greats but game by game on saves i think i would still pick bruce......might be to do with him making them look better than they was lol

by **Reg** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:36 pm

But there were times (not infrequent) when Brucie made you 'cringe' at a simple mistake. Clem didnt make simple mistakes - everyone remembers the one through his legs against Scotland at Wembley - but name another...? I cant. Bruce knocked us out of the European Cup singlehandedly a couple of times. Great keeper but Clem was far more consistent.

by **woof woof !** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:55 pm

Clemence gets my vote BUT (as with Gerrard and the best captain discussion) you've got to take into account the people he had playing with him. Pepe's never had a back four in front of him of the calibre that Clem had but as things stand he still comes a very close second to Clemence, given a few more years and a better back four, who knows ?, he could easily become best ever.

by **lakes10** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:10 pm

lol well i have just been put in my place by a very old man up the shops, the shop owner is one of us and i was talking about this thread and a old man said, you lot dont know what you are talking about Tommy Lawrence was the best by miles, he would put his face in front of the ball and back in them days you face never looked the same after you did that, he said that Lawrence had such strong hands he could hold onto a thunder bolt.he said that theres not a lot of film of his saves and they only tend to show the ones he let in by Lawrence is the best keeper Liverpool ever had and it was a sad day when he was left out for Clemence, who he said went on to be an ok player for the club but lucking to have a team like that in front of him.

ok i dont know much about Lawrence and what i do is only from the the video tapes i have of our history......but i am not going to stand in a shop and have a bust up with an old man about him lol

so thats me put in my place lol:D

by **Igor Zidane** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:01 pm

Sorry ,ray clemence by a mile . I love pepe but clem pisses all over him imo . Short memories you lot . I would have had elisha scott on the list ahead of pepe aswell . Go look at scotts stats and take into account the time he was playing and you'll see for yourself .

by **Reg** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:56 am

Sorry for missing out Elisha Igor but Tommy Lawrence takes s back to 1963 !

On Tommy Lawrence:

'Such was his form, consistency and luck (he was rarely injured) that he missed only a handful of games for eight years thereafter. A firm fan favourite he earned the affectionate nickname The Flying Pig because of his ability to dive around the penalty area despite weighing more than 14 stone (89 kg).'

Tommy played 390 games for Liverpool but despite dominating in the best club of the era he received only 3 caps for Scotland.

Interview with the Flying Pig:

Who was the best Liverpool player you played alongside?

I don't really know. I played behind some great full-backs - Gerry Byrne, Ronnie Moran, Alec Lindsay and Chris Lawler. Playing with them was great but I'd have to say the best played I played alongside was Cally. His consistency was untrue. We had two great wingers then, him and Peter Thompson. If we had them in the team today who knows how we'd be doing? We'd probably be winning everything.

What about the toughest opponent you came up against?

The worst type of opponents for me were the big centre forwards and in particular a lad called Wyn Davies who played for Wales and Bolton. He was about six foot four but only around eleven stone, so he was all bones. Whenever he challenged me I would be sore because he'd hit me with this big boney frame of his. In today's game he'd always be getting sent off. Bobby Smith of Tottenham was another one. There was some big lads about back in the sixties. I was big myself but the centre forwards were all bigger than me!

What was the best save you ever made?

It would have to be one I made from Bobby Charlton at Old Trafford in 1967. Some people still remind me of it today so they must be old! I remember someone pulled it back to him and he came running in from only about twelve-yards out. He hit it first time with his left peg. It was bad enough when he hit a shot from thirty-yards out never mind twelve, but I just picked the right way to dive and stuck my hand out. I felt the full force of Bobby's shot and managed to push it behind over the bar. Bobby couldn't believe it and he still goes on about it everytime I see him.

by **Reg** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:05 am

Elisha Scott (24 August 1894 – 16 May 1959) was an Irish football goalkeeper who most notably played for Liverpool from 1912 to 1934 (still holding the record as their longest-serving player).

Life and playing career
Elisha Scott played for Linfield, Broadway United and Belfast Celtic teams before Liverpool manager Tom Watson signed him on 3 September 1912, following a recommendation from Scott's older brother Billy Scott. Liverpool only got the chance to sign Scott when Everton decided that the 17-year-old Elisha was too young.

During the early days of his career Scott was understudy to Ken Campbell and only appeared occasionally. The First World War interrupted Scott’s career for four years. However, after its conclusion he returned to Liverpool and was determined to make the number 1 jersey his own[citation needed]. Scott finally got a chance of a run in the Liverpool goal at the end of the season. Scott's goalkeeping position was set in stone when Campbell was allowed to leave in the April 1920. Scott established himself as Liverpool’s number 1. He was a major part of the back-to-back Championship winning teams of 1922 and 1923, missing just 3 games of the first title and none in the second.

Numerous stories about Scott exist in Liverpool folklore. One such story relates to a 1924 game, after Scott had just made a phenomenal save at Ewood Park against Blackburn. A man appeared from the crowd went over to Scott and kissed him. Scott was part of one of the legendary rivalries of the day along with Everton’s Dixie Dean. The two of them were the main topic of discussion when derby day was approaching - Everton declared that Dean would score whilst Liverpool disagreed, saying Scott wouldn’t let a single shot past. A famous story, and possible myth associated with the two men was that of how they once encountered each other in Belfast city centre the day before an Ireland versus England game. Dean, famed for his remarkable heading ability touched his hat and nodded to Scott as they were about to pass only for Scott to respond by diving as if to try and save an imaginary header, much to the initial shock and then delight of the locals who witnessed it while a mildly shocked Dean smiled and quietly continued on his walk.

On February 21, 1934, he played his 467th and final game for Liverpool after being offered a player/manager role at Belfast Celtic.

During the final home game of the season, Scott gave a speech in the directors' box which is said to have brought tears from even the most hardened of Kopites present.

He finally retired from the game at the age of 42 in 1936 and continued to manage the Belfast club until it folded in 1949.

Meanwhile, Scott's appearance record at Anfield stood until 1957 when it fell at the hands of Billy Liddell.

Two years later the great man passed away.

He remains the last Liverpool player to have represented Northern Ireland.

by **Reg** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:11 am

Raymond Neal "Ray" Clemence, MBE (born 5 August 1948) is one of English and European football's most decorated goalkeepers ever and was part of the Liverpool team of the 1970s.

Clemence joined Liverpool in June 1967 from Scunthorpe United for a fee of £18,000, he made his debut and kept his first clean-sheet in a League Cup 3rd round tie at Anfield on the 25 September 1968, Swansea City were the visitors and were beaten 2-0. He was nurtured through the reserve side over the next two years, with the occasional senior appearance, until 1970, at which point he became the club's first choice goalkeeper.

In 1971, Liverpool reached the FA Cup final where Clemence played well but was powerless to prevent Arsenal scoring twice in extra time to peg back Liverpool's lead and win the game 2–1. However, there would be joy for Clemence two seasons later when Liverpool won both the League title and UEFA Cup, with Clemence saving a penalty in the final of the latter against Borussia Mönchengladbach. The penalty save meant that Liverpool took a 3–0 lead to Germany with them rather than a 3–1, Gladbach won 2–0 on their home soil and if Jupp Heynckes had beaten Clem from the spot the tie would have finished 3–3 on aggregate with the Germans winning on the away goals rule. 1973/74 saw Liverpool claim yet more silverware winning the F.A Cup at a canter with a comprehensive 3–0 victory over Newcastle United.

With Clemence in goal, Liverpool won another League and UEFA Cup double in 1976 and then made a courageous bid for a unique treble a year later. They achieved the first leg when they won the League title, but then lost the F.A Cup final to bitter rivals Manchester United, a result that affected Clem and saw him trudge forlornly off the Wembley turf. A consolation was to be had a few days later, however, when the Reds won the European Cup for the first time, defeating Borussia Mönchengladbach 3–1, with Clemence, again, being a thorn in the Gladbach side making a series of important saves.

Liverpool retained the European Cup in 1978 with a narrow 1–0 win over Club Brugge at Wembley, but conceded their League title to Nottingham Forest, to whom they also lost in the League Cup final. In 1979 and 1980, Clemence kept goal as Liverpool clinched the League title in each season. The 1978-79 League success saw Clemence set a record that was never beaten under the two points for a win system, conceding only 16 goals in the 42 league matches ( and just 4 at Anfield). This remarkable record endured until beaten recently by Chelsea, who conceded 15 goals in the 38 League matches.

Once again in 1981 silverware proudly sat in the Anfield trophy room as they won the League Cup and the European Cup for the third time, the 1–0 win over Real Madrid at the Parc des Princes on the 27 May ultimately proving to be Clemence's last game for the club. The emergence of the South African-born Bruce Grobbelaar put Clemence under threat for his place for the first time in eleven years (during which period he played in more than 650 matches and missed a mere six) and he decided Leave Liverpool by joining Tottenham Hotspur for a fee of £300,000.

Clemence was a regular for England between 1972 to 1984 making his debut and keeping his first clean-sheet in the 1–0 World Cup qualifier win over Wales at Ninian Park on the 15 November 1972, unfortunately for Clemence the presence of another great goalkeeper Peter Shilton meant that the England management struggled to decide which keeper was the best, and ended up alternating their selection. Clemence made 61 appearances for England in a 12 year international career.

His last act in a Liverpool shirt was to shut-out the Real Madrid attack in Paris as a third European Cup triumph was secured – a fitting end to an Anfield career of such distinction.

During his 11 years in the first team he missed just six league matches, won every major honour in the game apart from the European Cup Winners' Cup and displayed a level of consistency that no Reds' keeper has since been able to match.

He was also chosen as goalkeeper in the BBC's Merseyside team of the 20th century, and topped the magazine Total Football's poll of the best ever goalkeeper, beating the likes of Shilton, Lev Yashin, Gordon Banks and Pat Jennings.

by **Reg** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:20 am

Bruce David Grobbelaar (born 6 October 1957 in Durban, South Africa)

By the time Liverpool FC had completed their research on Grobbelaar, he had returned to Vancouver Whitecaps with his loan spell now over. Liverpool approached Tony Waiters with the idea of taking Grobbelaar to Anfield, and Waiters, who had a working relationship with Liverpool in the 1970s, paved the way for the move. Grobbelaar signed for Liverpool for £250,000 on 17 March 1981 as their reserve goalkeeper, but in mid-1981, regular goalkeeper Ray Clemence's surprise departure to Tottenham Hotspur[citation needed] gave Grobbelaar his opportunity.

Grobbelaar made his debut on 28 August 1981 but failed to prevent Wolverhampton Wanderers winning the league fixture 1–0 at Molineux.[1] Also making their debuts were defender Mark Lawrenson and midfielder Craig Johnston. His first clean sheet came a fortnight later at Anfield on 5 September, Arsenal were the visitors who were beaten by a 2–0 scoreline.[2]

Grobbelaar's early days as No.1 were strewn with errors and the Reds struggled to obtain any sort of consistency, Grobbelaar taking a lot of the blame.

Grobbelaar added the championship medal to the Milk Cup winners medal he had gained at Wembley on 13 March; the Reds beat Spurs 3–1, who had Ray Clemence in goal.

During the period 1981–1994, Grobbelaar played 627 first team games for Liverpool, becoming known for his eccentric and flamboyant style. In 1984, the European Cup final between Liverpool and A.S. Roma finished 1–1 after extra time, and went to a penalty shootout. As Roma's Bruno Conti prepared to take his kick, Grobbelaar walked towards the goal smiling confidently at the cameras lined-up behind, then proceeded to bite the back of the net, in imitation of eating spaghetti. Conti sent his spot kick over the bar. Grobbelaar then produced a similar performance before Francesco Graziani took his kick, famously wobbling his legs in mock terror. Graziani duly missed and Liverpool went on to win the shootout 4–2, making Grobbelaar the first African (Coluna, Eusébio, Santana, Costa Pereira and Águas were all born in Africa but Mozambique and Angola were under Portuguese rule and played for the Portuguese national team) to win a European Cup/Champions League winner's medal.

Grobbelaar was retained by three of Liverpool's greatest managers; Paisley, Fagan and Dalglish, over a period of 13 years. His strengths were his gymnastic-like agility, and an unflappable confidence. He was never afraid to be seen to berate his defenders if he thought they had given easy opportunities to the opposition, most famously in his verbal assault on Jim Beglin in the first all Merseyside FA Cup final against Everton in 1986. Over the course of his Liverpool career he won more medals than any of his contemporaries.

In 1984-85, Grobelaar famously brought down a spectator who had invaded the pitch during a game, allowing the police to handcuff the offending spectator.[3]

Although there were occasional challenges to his position as Liverpool's number 1, Grobbelaar was a virtual ever-present from Clemence's departure to the start of the 1990s, when the club itself also started to slide, culminating in Kenny Dalglish's resignation in February 1991

He was an ever-present in his first five league campaigns at Anfield, when Liverpool were champions four times and runners-up on the other occasion. However, in 1988–89, injuries and illness restricted his first team opportunities and he played 21 times in the league, with Mike Hooper taking his place on the other 17 occasions. However, he was fit to face Everton in the 3–2 FA Cup win on 20 May 1989, though six days later he conceded a last minute goal to Arsenal midfielder Michael Thomas on the final day of the league season as the league title was wrenched from Liverpool's grasp and headed to Highbury instead. A month earlier, he played in the FA Cup semi-final win over Nottingham Forest which was played at Old Trafford after the original match at Hillsborough was cancelled due to the tragedy that led to 96 fans dying on terracing just behind Grobbelaar's goal. Grobbelaar attended many of the victim's funerals.

In 14 years at the club, he had won six league title medals, three FA Cup winner's medal, three Football League Cup winner's medals and a European Cup winner's medal.

by **lakes10** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:22 pm

great read all of them Reg.

did not know about the Flying Pig lol, looks like the old man in the shop was right about strong hands.

reading all of them it makes it even harder to pick the best and i feel its better to say that they were all the best of their time.

by **laza** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:45 pm

Clemo even with aid of back pass , defence, non Chelsea millions , an understandable offside rule is no 1 for me

And like others Grobbo is forever tarnished for me

by **7_Kewell** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:57 pm

who on earth voted for Sander Westerveld

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:56 pm

I went with Reina. I have to go with the keepers I have watched and that is everyone up to Grobbelaar.

Grobbelaar was great but he shamed himself and the club by cheating. That said I still think Reina is the best I have seen for Liverpool.

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Liverpool's best 'keeper - Vote early and many times......

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