Page 17 of 22
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:11 pmby GYBS
Ciggy wrote:GYBS wrote:instead of resulting to insults explain why rafa couldnt play gerrard and lucas together in the middle ?
For starters I didnt insult you, if I wanted to I could believe me I want to.
They had 10 men behind the ball and where playing counter attack, Gerrard roams to much and Gerrard has to babysit Lucas hello? We where playing an Italian team do you not know how they play or are you in your tommy gun mode?
Its nice and simple - having gerrard in the middle would of helped us control the game a lot more and not left a massive gap in the middle for them to stroll through like aurelio and lucas did tonight . I know exactly how italians play ciggy but tht mould was broken tonight with them bossin the midfield and controlling the whole of the first half - add gerrard into that centre midfield and we gain control and power in the midfield - its nice and simple and if you cant understand or see that then clueless is the right word - the game was lost in the middle of the park tonight .
And im pretty sure you could of insulted me better - you seem to have a lot of praactise at it lately and where is it your place to tell someone to fu.ck off on the forum ?
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:15 pmby Ciggy
aCe' wrote:i wouldnt say being clueless AND a woman are entirely correlated but yeaa..... 
Gerrard should have started alongside Lucas with 2 upfront.. would have given us more balance and probably would have forced them to change their approach in the first half... As things turned out they were too comfortable controlling the game through Zanetti and Montolivio and thats were we struggled the most in the first half... 2nd half when Gerrard came deeper their whole gameplan had to be changed because they had to commit more of their attacking players to closing down deeper than they would have liked and thats when we got total control of proceedings...
And I will say you are totally wrong and we missed Xabi Alonso tonight, and will continue to do so in the CL and Lucas cannot lace his boots (not his fault BTW), but continue to fill us with your wonderfull football knowledge.................
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:16 pmby abbiedukes
Just a minor bump on the road and an incentive and a guide as to where the tweaking should be done ahead of the Chelski game.
It was a poor performance yes, but we have to give credit to Fiorentina for showing up and making a point that this is europe we are playing in and there are no lesser teams anymore. We'll come out of this much stronger! Bring on Chelski!!!
Watch the goals;
http://www.liverpoolfcgoals.webs.com
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:17 pmby red_guy
AWFUL!!! No team in the world deserve winning a game let alone winning a title playing like we've played during the first 45 min. My God what did we supporters do to deserve this??? Where's the passion..where's the commitment? baaaaahhhhh....whatever...it's not like the world is coming to an end. Anyway,The lads and rafa should remember this though...don't ever dream of achieving anything if this kind of complacency becomes a routine this season.
p.s : Skrtel and Lucas should be dropped a.s.a.p , Agger please come back soon. 
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:20 pmby GYBS
One poor game not helped by the wrong person being picked to play with him doesnt mean lucas should be dropped just like that . lets not over react
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:21 pmby TheLad
Nothing to say really. It was a different Liverpool in the second half, with no luck though. Can't understand the first half, a complete mystery.
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:22 pmby lakes10
Ciggy wrote:Well that was good wasnt it?
Carra & Skrtel lost the plot once again.
Lucas was awful, doesnt deserve a place on the bench never mind the starting 11, but we had no choice with no masch.
The Gerrard behind Torres show has come to an end with Alonso spraying passes to them both with his departure.
Oh well dust yerselves down redmen Chelsea on sunday.
Luckly enough we havent been playing that well in the league and we have scored more goals than anyone, cannot wait till we get going, and Agger, Aqualini are in the team it will be like having two new players that are very attack minded.
good post Cig. 
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:22 pmby bigmick
Coming back to Lynds' question the simple answer is that I don't know. I haven't seen any of the game and I know feck all about Fiorentina as a team, so I haven't got a magic solution.
I would say that I'd need a good reason to change the team in the first place (as per usual I guess), particularly since we've been playing pretty well recently. Given the fact that a draw would have been an OK result (even a defeat doesn't really make too much difference to be honest) then I suppose there would have been a temptation to rest Gerrard or Torres. Once that was discounted though, I'd probably have gone in with the same team as we have been playing (with Riera on the left, why does he keep getting left out 
). If you did want to shore the thing up and counter their "cattanacio" style (asuming they played that way, Italians normally do) then you'd have been looking at Spearing I suppose to play centrally. Alternatively, you could have played Aurelio left side of midfield with Gerrard central, pushed Kuyt into the hole and played Benayoun on the right.
Ultimately though it's not easy. As I was saying over the last few weeks, our squad is wafer thin in places and this kind of situation is going to repeated this season. Gerrard's a great player but he can't babysit Lucas AND be the second striker we haven't got, it's a problem.
One thing which does concern me once again is Masherano. A reprot someone posted was that he missed the game with "sickness". what's that? Bellyache, a headache, bit of a sniffle, sore-throat, flu? What the feck is all that about? I'm really beginning to think we might have been best served taking the money and running with Mash, what with his Mrs being stuck in Argentina by all accounts. One thing you don't need when have squad weaknesses is players who don't want to play.
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:23 pmby aCe'
Ciggy wrote:aCe' wrote:i wouldnt say being clueless AND a woman are entirely correlated but yeaa.....
Gerrard should have started alongside Lucas with 2 upfront.. would have given us more balance and probably would have forced them to change their approach in the first half... As things turned out they were too comfortable controlling the game through Zanetti and Montolivio and thats were we struggled the most in the first half... 2nd half when Gerrard came deeper their whole gameplan had to be changed because they had to commit more of their attacking players to closing down deeper than they would have liked and thats when we got total control of proceedings...
And I will say you are totally wrong and we missed Xabi Alonso tonight, and will continue to do so in the CL and Lucas cannot lace his boots (not his fault BTW), but continue to fill us with your wonderfull football knowledge.................
We missed Alonso the moment we sold him and replaced with an injured player...
Doesnt change from the fact that given the players Rafa had at his disposal, he could and should have picked a better side for the game tonight....
I dont think he expected Fiorentina to come out with the setup and approach they took for that 1st half... Everyone expected them to go for a direct style playing it on the counter and trying to keep it tight at the back.. All credit to their manager he realized/anticipated the mess Rafa made with the selections and got it spot on with his side for the 1st half...
Gerrard in the middle for me does 2 things... the first is that it obviously gives us better attacking options when we have the ball, and the 2nd is that it forces us to defend and press higher up... With the likes of Lucas and Mascherano you'll always have players who dont have the ability to do anything constructive with the ball 9 times out of every 10 times they get it... Aurelio is a little better given his passing range but when it comes to everything else that being a CM requires hes found lacking..
I just think Rafa needs to have our best players out there every game, and for me that means that when everyone is fit, the likes of Skrtel and Lucas are nowhere near the starting 11...
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:25 pmby NANNY RED
Oh how we missed Xabi Cigg ,we missed his football brain, the game was cryin out for him, as wel asa few games ive seen this season,. We also missed Javier tonight big time, imo he wasnt there to step in an disrupt the play whenever our fullback went forward an they came on the break, I JUST HOPE HES BACK ON sUNDAY, Im not to ar.sed about tonights result tbh ,yes giutted we got beat , but we can come through this group, im more concerned about the Chelsea game tbh, Im hoping Agger does ok for the Ressies an all
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:34 pmby GYBS
Even if agger does come through the ressie game the chelsea game is still too early for him so skrtel will have to play . Lucas has played against the top teams before and done well (man utd) so go back to the line up for hull and it will give us more control and better balance .
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:36 pmby account deleted by request
NANNY RED wrote:Oh how we missed Xabi Cigg ,we missed his football brain, the game was cryin out for him, as wel asa few games ive seen this season,. We also missed Javier tonight big time, imo he wasnt there to step in an disrupt the play whenever our fullback went forward an they came on the break, I JUST HOPE HES BACK ON sUNDAY, Im not to ar.sed about tonights result tbh ,yes giutted we got beat , but we can come through this group, im more concerned about the Chelsea game tbh, Im hoping Agger does ok for the Ressies an all
We also missed Souness and Whelan Nanny, but sadly they have gone as well, time to move on 
TBH I think absence makes the heart grow fonder, and as soon as we don't see a player for a while the suddenly become twice the player they were. Agger has been out for a while and suddenly he is the answer to all our defensive problems. Crouch has been gone a while and he is the answer to all our attacking woes........ god help us when Kuyt goes
We are missing a top quality player in CM, hopefully once Aquilani is fit we wont be. I think it would have been a totally different game tonight if Masch had been fit. (I missed the first half, so I may be a little optimistic )
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:39 pmby GYBS
s@int wrote:NANNY RED wrote:Oh how we missed Xabi Cigg ,we missed his football brain, the game was cryin out for him, as wel asa few games ive seen this season,. We also missed Javier tonight big time, imo he wasnt there to step in an disrupt the play whenever our fullback went forward an they came on the break, I JUST HOPE HES BACK ON sUNDAY, Im not to ar.sed about tonights result tbh ,yes giutted we got beat , but we can come through this group, im more concerned about the Chelsea game tbh, Im hoping Agger does ok for the Ressies an all
We also missed Souness and Whelan Nanny, but sadly they have gone as well, time to move on
TBH I think absence makes the heart grow fonder, and as soon as we don't see a player for a while the suddenly become twice the player they were. Agger has been out for a while and suddenly he is the answer to all our defensive problems. Crouch has been gone a while and he is the answer to all our attacking woes........ god help us when Kuyt goes
We are missing a top quality player in CM, hopefully once Aquilani is fit we wont be. I think it would have been a totally different game tonight if Masch had been fit. (I missed the first half, so I may be a little optimistic )
mash instead of aurelio would of given us a little bit mroe control and he certainly would of improved that big hole in the middle and tracked the midfield runners more so i think if he had played we may of got a draw but not if he would of added anything going forward mate - if gerrard had played alongside lucas we would of got more control and more on the offensive side mate Aurelio was the wrong choice totally .
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:43 pmby Zidane
I didn't see the game but I think the problem in midfield was obviously Aurelio and not Lucas, regardless of how good/bad he may have been. That's where Rafa got it wrong and where the issues came from I would imagine. I'm just going from what I've read is all and to play him in midfield was pretty silly regardless of the situation. I fully expected Babel to start with Aurelio slotting in at LB or at least LM but certainly not CM. I thought he'd go with Stevie in the middle and Benny up front.
Anyway I put this loss on Rafa more than anyone, he got the team selection completely wrong.
Posted:
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:44 pmby red_guy
maybe i've over reacted with the idea of dropping Lucas but Skrtel doing f@ck all this season. Let Agger play week in week out after he's fit and continue playing him until Skrtel realizes that at the moment he's NOT playing for just another shitty southeast asia football club .