Posted:
Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:45 amby Scottbot
I'd be inclined to agree with this article (see below). Rafa is not the sort to talk about a player before trying to buy him. I don't recall hearing a mention of Torres until the deal was pretty much done this time last year.
Liverpool: Villa talk diverts attention from Keane
There have been some interesting comments from Rafa Benitez regarding David Villa. With Peter Crouch on the brink of leaving the club, the Liverpool manager has been reported as saying “we will try to bring in another option. Villa is a player we know all about and he is on our list. But maybe it will be difficult."
This has triggered a lot of speculation that that the Valencia striker is on his way to Anfield. However, my view on David Villa has not changed and I still feel that it is most likely he will remain in Spain this summer; although a great deal still depends upon the new owners at Valencia and what decisions they take regarding the sale of their biggest assets.
As things stand at the moment, there has been no contact with David Villa’s agent regarding a possible transfer.
I said before that I do not think that Liverpool will sign David Villa, and I haven’t changed my mind. Of course, Rafa is an admirer of the player and, let’s face it, who wouldn’t love to sign him. However, I think that Villa is well out of Liverpool’s price range and all of this talk about the Spanish striker is distracting people from a far more likely signing: Robbie Keane
Keane has informed Juande Ramos of his desire to play for Liverpool and if the funds are available, then the Spurs forward could very well be the ‘nice surprise for Liverpool fans’ I recently spoke of: certainly a far more realistic option than David Villa who, at the moment, is diverting attention away from the club's genuine targets.
Posted:
Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:30 pmby The Manhattan Project
Voronin will score 34 goals next season.....while playing Pro Evo.
He'll save all those goals on his PS3 Memory Card.
Posted:
Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:41 pmby JoeTerp
I don't think this was any master smokescreen plan by Rafa either. Unless he picks the questions that are asked of him. He was asked well we sold crouch, need a striker how about Villa, so of course his quote is going to have his name in it, and he is never going to say he is cr@p would never want him, especially with the financial troubles Valencia is in. If they struggle again next season, their only way out might be to sell Villa (or Silva) and sure up the rest of the squad. But I don't think there was ever any intention of us to sign him or even to purposefully divert attention from Keane. In the papers, most of the talk had been about Crouch, the brazilian keeper and Barry in the last couple of days anyway, and I am not sure how much a smokescreen can help anyway. Just because a club expects you to bid for one player and then they bid for yours how does that make you any more or less likely to sell? Everybody knows that every other manager has a backup plan so all you have to do is NOT say that someone is your only target.
Posted:
Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:02 pmby Toffeehater
I doubt Villa would come , but i think rafa would sign silva instead read that he's interested and valencia want 16 million for him , and thats within our reach whereas they want 32 million for david villa
Posted:
Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:56 pmby The Manhattan Project
If Valencia want 16M for Silva, we should sign him.
Posted:
Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:48 pmby Bad Bob
I thought I'd share Tomkins's latest in here. At the start it's about Crouch but it broadens out into a discussion of strikers in the modern game and what we need. He's not everyone's cup of tea, I know, but there's some meat in this piece for people to sink their teeth into as we weigh up options for Crouchy's replacement.
---
From .tv
TOMKINS: STRIKING OUT
Paul Tomkins 11 July 2008
The news that Peter Crouch is set to join Portsmouth does not surprise me. He could be the perfect partner for Jermaine Defoe, but at Liverpool he was always going to be behind Torres when it came to team selection.
paul tomkins
I am a big fan of Crouch, but I also understand why he fell down the pecking order at Anfield. Benitez did a lot for the striker's career, sticking with him through a very lean start, but the arrival of Torres made Crouch an option rather than a regular.
If Crouch had pace, I feel he'd be unplayable. But without pace, which is so essential in the modern game, he needs a partner who has it; someone to get behind defences. But that then forces a manager into a more rigid 4-4-2.
I imagine Rafa would have loved to have kept the striker as something different to call upon, but Crouch wants regular football. And on that score I can't blame him; the difficulty of managing a top club is keeping 25 international footballers happy when some won't feature as often as they like.
You don't want players who are only too happy to be on the bench or not even in the 16, but you need those who are willing to accept it. It's where Manchester United got so lucky with Ole Gunnar Solksjaer.
I still see an obsession with finding another out-and-striker to play alongside Torres, with fans mentioning the names of players who, like Peter Crouch, are what I call 'spearhead' strikers. But the very reason Crouch didn't play as often last season was because two spearhead strikers just aren't part of the game anymore.
These days, teams rarely play 4-4-2 with a 'flat' front two, and Liverpool's history going back 50 years has few examples of such partnerships - which makes the desire for two up front all the more baffling. Emile Heskey and Michael Owen were one such pairing, but when Rush and Aldridge were at the club together, the latter was quickly sold due to their similarity.
In their later years together, Ian St John played off Roger Hunt. Kevin Keegan roamed all over the attacking third, behind target-man John Toshack. Kenny Dalglish was a master at dropping deep to find space, and to thread balls through to Ian Rush. Then came Peter Beardsley, with a vaguely similar style to Dalglish, creating for John Aldridge and then Rush. And in the '90s, when Stan Collymore had his head together, it was his work in wide areas that stands out in his setting up Robbie Fowler for hatfuls of goals.
Alan Shearer and Chris Sutton were the last two out-and-out strikers I can think of in a successful Premiership side. Yet some fans want to pair two leaders of the line together.
It's an easy trap to fall into, and I do it myself from time to time. We see two strikers capable of scoring goals, and think that they will provide a prolific solution. But put them in the same team together, and their styles might clash. It's no use having two strikers who take up the same positions and make the same kind of runs.
While Crouch and Torres never duplicated each other's movements, both need to be as far up the field as possible. You want Crouch using his height as near to the opposing penalty area, but you want Torres up against the last defender, threatening to get in behind all the time. So in that sense they clash. Their styles differ, and in some ways they'd make a nice partnership; but the shape of the team would suffer.
While they may have been the Reds' two strikers capable of scoring the most goals as individuals, that doesn't mean they'd do so when in the same team together. And even if they did, it's how playing them together affects the team as a whole. With two out-and-out strikers, the play has to be more direct, with neither coming to the ball.
I've seen it mooted that in the future there will be no strikers on the pitch, and that a series of attacking midfielders will flood the box. At times Manchester United remind me of this theory, with neither Rooney nor Tevez an out-and-out striker, and Ronaldo drifting all over the attacking third. But at the very least, top teams tend to have just one striker, such as Adebayor or Drogba, with others joining from deep.
Spain played two 'forwards' this summer, but it was really a split-striker system, with the small, mobile David Villa dropping deep and playing like Peter Beardsley. Or if Villa went forward, Torres drifted wide - which helped Villa, but reduced Torres' effectiveness somewhat.
Of course, the overall result was winning football, with Torres' effectiveness also inhibited by the midfield's reluctance to release and early pass.
The Liverpool striker's best two games were when Villa was injured and Fabregas played in a free role; Torres ran Russia ragged in the semi-final, coming close on about five occasions, and then scored a sublime winner against Germany, where he showed immense strength and pace and a delicate finish, and also hit the bar with a thumping header. But as a pair, Torres and Villa terrorised Russia in the opening game.
With Crouch heading out, I expect to see Liverpool in the market for a mobile striker who can score goals, but who can also drift deep and wide, to create space and to also create chances. Villa can do this, and so can Robbie Keane, another player the club have been linked to in the papers.
As fans, we obsess about individuals, and covet the most exciting players; hence some desiring a move for Samuel Eto'o. But a manager has to deal with the realities of balance. For years Gerrard and Lampard were seen as England's dream midfield pairing, but it never quite worked as anticipated. It's almost as if team selection is largely seen by fans and media as rewarding the best players, or 'most deserving', when it should be about winning football matches.
People kept telling me last season that Crouch 'deserved' to be in the side ahead of Kuyt, but Torres was massively appreciative of what Kuyt was doing for him.
While any two top players can perform together, it's about getting the most from the team as a whole. It's only recently that successive England managers have opted for Gareth Barry alongside Gerrard on account of the balance he provides. There has to be that mix of match-winners with those who help them perform at their optimum level. Or, if someone has to play out of position or alter their natural game, then it needs to be seen as for the benefit of the team and not about 'wasting' their talent.
If a new striker were to stop Torres scoring as many, but the team as a whole score more, that's a good thing - providing it's not at the expense of the hard work the forwards do to protect leads.
In a few games last season Andrei Voronin was brilliant in the role of second striker; early in the season Kenny Dalglish was singing his praises, and in the game against Besiktas the Ukrainian was heavily involved in five of the goals. But a loss of fitness and confidence has left him needing to answer some questions. We've seen he has talent, but succeeding at the top level is about confidence and consistency.
Dirk Kuyt, meanwhile, offered great toil and support for Torres in the first half of last season, but lost his goalscoring touch and his confidence suffered.
Too many people miss the intelligence of his movement - for me, it's not just his limitless energy, but it's how clever he is when he hasn't got the ball, whether it is knowing when to track back, or making runs to create space for others. I thought he was generally excellent on the right of midfield in the second half of the season, and it may be that it's a role that suits him better in this team. Time will tell.
Ryan Babel is another option as a second striker, and one who may grow into the role. We've yet to see him play off Torres, but it's his preferred position. He's ended several games as the lone forward, using his pace to kill teams off on the break. But at the moment I'm just looking forward to him taking what he's learned into the new season.
And there's always the partnership of Torres and Gerrard, which helped the Reds thrive in the last few months of the season. The thing with Gerrard is that he can excel in any number of roles, and in certain games it might be more beneficial to have him playing deeper.
As individuals, they are arguably the best striker and best all-round midfielder in the world; they are certainly not far off. And as a partnership they were often hugely effective.
But there might be times, particularly against the top teams, when someone more used to the second striker role can offer even more, thus allowing the captain to spring more unpredictably from different areas of the field. For Benitez, it's all about options and alternatives, and I imagine that's the thinking with his transfer targets this summer.
Then there's one player yet to feature in the first team, but whose development has excited the fans.
Whether it happens sooner or later, Krisztian Nemeth has a real chance of succeeding because not only is he a natural finisher, he also has great awareness for his age of what's going on around him. He seems happy to drop deep and feed balls through, and in time could be someone who thrives playing just behind Torres. But there's a big gap between reserve and first team level, and it may take him time to bridge it.
Whoever Liverpool sign, my desire is always that the manager gets who he wants. He is the one who has to find the blend, and he is the one who has the world-class football knowledge. He, and his army of scouts and analysts, know how to assess players more expertly than me, and spend far more time doing so. They are aware of what the team lacks, and who they believe can offer the missing ingredients.
Whether it's world-class individuals or players who make others tick, I trust the squad will be stronger going into the new campaign, and the blend that bit better.
licking threads that always talk about the revolution the new dawn the amazing future the resurgence. It aint coming without a complete rethink & at the moment people dont want to here that. Everyone on here seems to have a season ticket on the kop, well you're not sitting near me because Gerrard aint no hero with the hundred or so who are around & there is little adulation when we turn out another average performance. I'm sorry if you bubbles are bursting but wake up & smell the coffee.
