Liverpool FC Forum

aCe' wrote:

7_Kewell wrote:i often wonder what happens to all this awful players Rafa has brough. You could probably make a couple of teams from them. who would be your first choice full back, Kronkamp of  Josomi 

GREAT IDEA !

you wanna start the thread or should i ?! 

' Rafa's flop 11 '

GK: Cavalieri, Martin
RB: Josemi, Kromkamp, Degen
LB: Dossena
CB: Paletta, Sotirios
RW: Nunez, Pennant,
LW: Gonzales, Leto, Babel
CM: Zenden, Lucas
FW: Morientes, Kuyt, Voronin, Keane

PICK YOUR FANTASY 11 

thing is though, that if we played that lot now they'd probably beat us



anyway, see ya andrea. good luck and thanks for the chuckles.

andy_g wrote:

aCe' wrote:

7_Kewell wrote:i often wonder what happens to all this awful players Rafa has brough. You could probably make a couple of teams from them. who would be your first choice full back, Kronkamp of  Josomi 

GREAT IDEA !

you wanna start the thread or should i ?! 

' Rafa's flop 11 '

GK: Cavalieri, Martin
RB: Josemi, Kromkamp, Degen
LB: Dossena
CB: Paletta, Sotirios
RW: Nunez, Pennant,
LW: Gonzales, Leto, Babel
CM: Zenden, Lucas
FW: Morientes, Kuyt, Voronin, Keane

PICK YOUR FANTASY 11 

thing is though, that if we played that lot now they'd probably beat us

Not if they had Rafa managing them 

aCe' wrote:

7_Kewell wrote:i often wonder what happens to all this awful players Rafa has brough. You could probably make a couple of teams from them. who would be your first choice full back, Kronkamp of  Josomi 

GREAT IDEA !

you wanna start the thread or should i ?! 

' Rafa's flop 11 '

GK: Cavalieri, Martin
RB: Josemi, Kromkamp, Degen
LB: Dossena
CB: Paletta, Sotirios
RW: Nunez, Pennant,
LW: Gonzales, Leto, Babel
CM: Zenden, Lucas
FW: Morientes, Kuyt, Voronin, Keane

PICK YOUR FANTASY 11 

this deserves its own thread 

LFC2007 wrote:£4m!   

Diddled!

Sabre wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:£4m!   

Diddled!

That's with add ons?

devaney wrote:Now that only leaves about 8 more of Benitez's really sh.ite buys to be sold and we might just be able to afford one half decent player but let's face it he would probably be carrying an injury and be no fkg use until about 2012 !! Do us all a favour Rafa and fk off to Napoli with Dossena - your talents or lack of them are very similar !!

His record for 08/09 signings isn't good, more bad and ugly

THE 08/09 SIGNINGS (LEAGUE APPS IN BRACKETS)

The (could be) good

£1.5m on N'Gog (10), didn't look like much of a signing given his PSG record, but he's done ok. But like Crouch he seems to score mostly against nothing sides

£8m on Riera (9), started out flavour of the month like Johnson but ended up second fiddle to Benayoun at the end of last season and now due to injuries and preferences has started just six league games with three others as sub

The bad

£3m on Cavalieri (0) and Degen (3), one to sit on the bench and the other supposedly our attacking full-back to play opposite Dossena who got injured all the time and isn't picked when fit

The ugly

£27.3m on Keane (0) and Dossena(2), sold within 0.5 and 1.5 seasons respectively

So that's £30.3m out of £39.8m (76%) of the money spent in 08/09 wasted, either in terms of players sold or players never used. 24 league appearances between them out of a possible 120 (20.00%) had they all been successes, thereby measuring their success, and would we be worse off without them?

09/10 isn't much more successful, of the 60 appearances our £39m collection of signings could have made, and bear in mind that doesn't mean all starts, they've made 25 between them (42%) and 17 (28%) of those were made by Johnson. Even the kids, Spearing, Pacheco, Eccleston and Ayala, have made eight league appearances between them.

Perhaps the one telling stat which is an indictment of Rafa's reign is this, that despite spending £200m (give or take add-ons, owed debts, debated actual fees etc) Carra and Gerrard are STILL two of our best five players and we'd be screwed without them. Add to that the fact that the below signed data doesn't look good, I'd say Dossena doesn't quite typify his signings, but it isn't misrepresentative of his overall policy (buy a player, dump them pretty quickly)

PLAYERS BY SEASON SIGNED (OUT OF NUMBER SIGNED IN BRACKETS)

04/05 (0/8) : none
05/06 (3/11) : Reina, Martin, Agger
06/07 (5/9) : Mascherano, Kuyt, Voronin, El Zhar, Aurelio
07/08 (8/8) : Torres, Babel, Skrtel, Benayoun, Plessis, Insua, Lucas, Itandje
08/09 (4/6) : Riera, Cavalieri, N'Gog, Degen
09/10 (3/3) : Kyrgiakos, Johnson, Aquilani

Point being Rafa has been here five years, none of the players he has signed have. In fact only three of the 19 players signed in his first two seasons are, that does include Cisse who he didn't sign himself, but even three out of 18 doesn't make for good reading. He's looking to offload Voronin and Mascherano may be sold, that will take apart 06/07. Good signings stand the test of time, literally. How much practical use El Zhar is demands little debate, only Aurelio, Kuyt, Agger, Reina and Mascherano signed pre 07/08 get sufficient playing time to be considered good signings and that's five out of 28 - or 1 for every 5.6 players signed over three seasons (04/05-06/07) You expect a slightly lower rate in early seasons, transitional period and all that tripe, but near one in six doesn't say much for his signings considering Alonso was the first and only player sold down (entirely) to the size of bid and forceful nature of the approach

Most of Rafa's seem to do well to survive two seasons, Alonso was the last of the 04/05 signings. 07/08 are clinging on with a full complement thanks to pure (bad) luck. Babel might have long gone had he not cost £11.5m, Itandje is a bad smell that wouldn't go away, while Plessis must be trying the fergie factor and will come good in seven years time Lucas is widely criticised, Insua has been poor recently and even Skrtel is no longer automatic first choice. That leaves Torres and Benayoun successes among that crop. Still 1 in 4 is better than 1 in 5.6

andy_g wrote:

aCe' wrote:

7_Kewell wrote:i often wonder what happens to all this awful players Rafa has brough. You could probably make a couple of teams from them. who would be your first choice full back, Kronkamp of  Josomi 

GREAT IDEA !

you wanna start the thread or should i ?! 

' Rafa's flop 11 '

GK: Cavalieri, Martin
RB: Josemi, Kromkamp, Degen
LB: Dossena
CB: Paletta, Sotirios
RW: Nunez, Pennant,
LW: Gonzales, Leto, Babel
CM: Zenden, Lucas
FW: Morientes, Kuyt, Voronin, Keane

PICK YOUR FANTASY 11 

thing is though, that if we played that lot now they'd probably beat us



anyway, see ya andrea. good luck and thanks for the chuckles.

Owzat wrote:

devaney wrote:Now that only leaves about 8 more of Benitez's really sh.ite buys to be sold and we might just be able to afford one half decent player but let's face it he would probably be carrying an injury and be no fkg use until about 2012 !! Do us all a favour Rafa and fk off to Napoli with Dossena - your talents or lack of them are very similar !!

His record for 08/09 signings isn't good, more bad and ugly

THE 08/09 SIGNINGS (LEAGUE APPS IN BRACKETS)

The (could be) good

£1.5m on N'Gog (10), didn't look like much of a signing given his PSG record, but he's done ok. But like Crouch he seems to score mostly against nothing sides

£8m on Riera (9), started out flavour of the month like Johnson but ended up second fiddle to Benayoun at the end of last season and now due to injuries and preferences has started just six league games with three others as sub

The bad

£3m on Cavalieri (0) and Degen (3), one to sit on the bench and the other supposedly our attacking full-back to play opposite Dossena who got injured all the time and isn't picked when fit

The ugly

£27.3m on Keane (0) and Dossena(2), sold within 0.5 and 1.5 seasons respectively

So that's £30.3m out of £39.8m (76%) of the money spent in 08/09 wasted, either in terms of players sold or players never used. 24 league appearances between them out of a possible 120 (20.00%) had they all been successes, thereby measuring their success, and would we be worse off without them?

09/10 isn't much more successful, of the 60 appearances our £39m collection of signings could have made, and bear in mind that doesn't mean all starts, they've made 25 between them (42%) and 17 (28%) of those were made by Johnson. Even the kids, Spearing, Pacheco, Eccleston and Ayala, have made eight league appearances between them.

Perhaps the one telling stat which is an indictment of Rafa's reign is this, that despite spending £200m (give or take add-ons, owed debts, debated actual fees etc) Carra and Gerrard are STILL two of our best five players and we'd be screwed without them. Add to that the fact that the below signed data doesn't look good, I'd say Dossena doesn't quite typify his signings, but it isn't misrepresentative of his overall policy (buy a player, dump them pretty quickly)

PLAYERS BY SEASON SIGNED (OUT OF NUMBER SIGNED IN BRACKETS)

04/05 (0/8) : none
05/06 (3/11) : Reina, Martin, Agger
06/07 (5/9) : Mascherano, Kuyt, Voronin, El Zhar, Aurelio
07/08 (8/8) : Torres, Babel, Skrtel, Benayoun, Plessis, Insua, Lucas, Itandje
08/09 (4/6) : Riera, Cavalieri, N'Gog, Degen
09/10 (3/3) : Kyrgiakos, Johnson, Aquilani

Point being Rafa has been here five years, none of the players he has signed have. In fact only three of the 19 players signed in his first two seasons are, that does include Cisse who he didn't sign himself, but even three out of 18 doesn't make for good reading. He's looking to offload Voronin and Mascherano may be sold, that will take apart 06/07. Good signings stand the test of time, literally. How much practical use El Zhar is demands little debate, only Aurelio, Kuyt, Agger, Reina and Mascherano signed pre 07/08 get sufficient playing time to be considered good signings and that's five out of 28 - or 1 for every 5.6 players signed over three seasons (04/05-06/07) You expect a slightly lower rate in early seasons, transitional period and all that tripe, but near one in six doesn't say much for his signings considering Alonso was the first and only player sold down (entirely) to the size of bid and forceful nature of the approach

Most of Rafa's seem to do well to survive two seasons, Alonso was the last of the 04/05 signings. 07/08 are clinging on with a full complement thanks to pure (bad) luck. Babel might have long gone had he not cost £11.5m, Itandje is a bad smell that wouldn't go away, while Plessis must be trying the fergie factor and will come good in seven years time Lucas is widely criticised, Insua has been poor recently and even Skrtel is no longer automatic first choice. That leaves Torres and Benayoun successes among that crop. Still 1 in 4 is better than 1 in 5.6