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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:09 am
by LFC2007
I don't think a lack of competitiveness is to blame for the lack of quality footballers produced in England to those in Brazil (if anything it could be part of the problem). Part of the reason though must be that Brazil have an historical legacy of playing the "samba style" that has become part of Brazilian football culture, and consequently kids there learn to focus on developing the skills they need to emulate their role models - Pele, Garrincha, Socrates, Romario etc....

What are the reasons Brazil developed the players in the first place to build that legacy is probably explained by social factors that in a previous thread sabre alluded to, what you could call the underlying the difference. Being a football crazy nation but at the same time (perhaps) not having the infrastructure or organisation of a "developed" nation must mean more kids play the game in a more informal, relaxed setting (perhaps the weather is a factor) where the ball mightn't even regulation standard - if it's a ball at all :D  - and where the pitches undulate; under these conditions agility and control become more important in extracting enjoyment from the game itself (having a kickabout with an irregular ball must require more skill to keep the game fluid, and so to make it enjoyable); and then when it comes to moving on to playing in a more formal setting their skillset is already largely developed, and so for what they may lack in organisational awareness, they make up for in the skills they've already acquired - the basics that after a certain age become essentially "unlearnable" (though improvable) qualities (whereas organisational skills can be learned as they depend more on simple concentration and hard-work). When you compare such a setting to an English or European one; playing in a formal - you could even say rigid - setting, in organised groups with the best balls and grass pitches, where - because they play in groups, against groups - (an identifier) - winning trumps just about everything. "We're better than you" (their mums and dad's even sing songs about it ffs).

PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:29 pm
by Reg
The Brazilians, rather like the Germans, believe they have a god given right to win the world cup.

Mentally they´re already in teh final when they step out for the first qualifying game in lowly Bolivia.

England, stammer, stutter, wring their hands in agony all the way through the competition and willingly accept defeat.

Draws against USa and Algeria were seen as 'good results'.  Maicon's goal was 'long overdue and about bl**dy time' in comparison.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:51 pm
by Benny The Noon
A big reason why kids from other countries are better than ours for me is the X-Box playstation generation we have now - Kids would rathe r play a game as their favourite team on a computer than go out and have a kick about and trying and play as their favourite player . Abroad its totally different as you see kids all over the place having a kick about .

PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:17 pm
by LFC2007
Reg wrote:Draws against USa and Algeria were seen as 'good results'. 

No they weren't.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:22 pm
by Kharhaz
Benny The Noon wrote:A big reason why kids from other countries are better than ours for me is the X-Box playstation generation we have now - Kids would rathe r play a game as their favourite team on a computer than go out and have a kick about and trying and play as their favourite player . Abroad its totally different as you see kids all over the place having a kick about .

Thats not true. Many people on here with kids will tell you. As soon as the sun comes out most kids are playing outside with there mates. BUT thats where the problem lies. All the parks and youth centers have been closed down. The opportunities for kids to go out and play sports are limited. I dont know about elsewhere, but here in grimsby, what areas there were for the kids to play have been torn down by the council. When they do go out, there is nothing for them to do. They cant hang around outside as they get in trouble for loitering and so left with little choice but to hang around the front yard.

In general, the kids around here cannot win. If they stay in they are lazy, if they go out there is nowhere to go and risk getting in trouble for loitering. Its a sad state of affairs.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:13 am
by Reg
LFC2007 wrote:
Reg wrote:Draws against USa and Algeria were seen as 'good results'. 

No they weren't.

Are you basing that on the post match interviews or the UK press?

The post match interviews were quite satisfied with the draws.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:18 am
by LFC2007
Reg wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Reg wrote:Draws against USa and Algeria were seen as 'good results'. 

No they weren't.

Are you basing that on the post match interviews or the UK press?

The post match interviews were quite satisfied with the draws.

Gerrard was interviewed after the game and said it wasn't good enough. Capello said the same. There's no question of those results being seen as "good". Perhaps not the worst, given that we still had a chance to go through, but certainly not good, not by a long stretch.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:05 pm
by Big Niall
England is , and always has been around the level of 10th best team in the world.