Liverpool FC Forum

Posted: **Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:25 pm**

Crystal Palace and West Bromich Albion did something unthinkable. Crystal Palace held Arsenal to a draw at home while Bromich got a point at Highburry. Now why is that really? Do they have better players than Arsenal? No they don't.

They played as one unfied force, playing with their heart as much as they did with their brains. Now why am I bringing this up?

First our performance was shocking against Boro, quite pathetic but even though we were without two key strikers we should had gotten at least a point. If West Brom can get a point from Arsenal why couldn't we get a point from Boro?

Quite simple, most of our players played without any effort or heart. Look at Jamie Carragher, he gives it his all in every game. If we had played as one against Boro and played with effort the end result would had been different.

We face Arsenal at home next week and it is not impossible to beat Arsenal. They have been weakened[though still dangerous] since losing to Man Utd. If clubs with players that can not be compared to ours get a point from a side that went 49 games unbeaten then why can't we?

For us to get anything against Arsenal all players will have to give it their all or we will end up with a result possibly worst than Boro. We are capable of bouncing back and don't give me "no strikers=we are ******" bullsh!t.

13 goals have been scored by our midfielders while 15 have been scored by our strikers thus far this year. We have good enough options to get something out of the game but we will have to play as one as did Palace and West Brom.

Posted: **Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:37 pm**

Thats one of the first things Rafa said he was working on when he arrived -mentality. Ive yet to see any change in it but Im no expert and maybe it takes time. I can see what you mean with the likes of Palace and even Everton ,they treat every game as a cup final and when you can get the whole team to do that its like having an extra man. More heart would certainly make an enormous difference mixed with our teams ability

Posted: **Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:40 pm**

The gooners are really missing Sol Cambell thats why there defence is all over the place at the mo, and that dodgey keeper, but they have fantastic players in there team that if they lost say Henry and Bergkamp to injury, they still have players capable of coming on and scoring whereas we dont, maybe Mellor, it just really brings it home to you how far we are behind and its going to take a good few years before we are a force again.
I think since there record of unbeaten games was broke, that the team are sort of relaxed now, that must put pressure on you going all them games without defeat and I bet some of them are glad its over.But there players arnt getting any younger and I hope Rafa buys young and good talented players for our future, and he sticks by us for the long run then we can reclaim what was once ours.
And bring back some very needed success to our mighty club that we all love so much.

Posted: **Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:44 am**

we have to play as a team that wants to win every game, we have to show the same passion as everton,bolton, aston villa,palace,man u,arsenal, chelsea,west brom,blackburn ,birmingham,newcastle,fulham,charlton,middlesbrough,norwich,portsmouyh,man city,southampton, i think if we sign some british players, with a bit of heart passion and a will to win. well then, i think we might be on the right track.

Posted: **Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:37 am**

Heart or the lack of it, is the big problem of modern football. I grew up watching players like Steve Nicol and Gary Gillespie who would walk through walls for Liverpool, Graeme Souness would have stared the wall out of it and make it collapse out of fear.

Once of the major reasons behind Man UTD's success was the heart and determination Ferguson instilled in the side, and until we have all our squad willing to go the extra mile for us, we'll never go anywhere.

Porto, Valencia and Greece all showed what is possible wuth a little heart, grit and determination (although obviously you always need a bit of skill, organisation and technique to do something).

Posted: **Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:44 am**

John Barnes' Granny wrote:Graeme Souness would have stared the wall out of it and make it collapse out of fear.

Posted: **Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:53 am**

Not was only Graeme Souness such a tough guvnor in the middle of the park, he is also a skillful passer and can shoot accurately with either feet. This was illustrated in an away game against West Ham some time in the early 80s when they had Alan Devonshire and Brooking. We lost 3-2 after conceding 3 goals by half-time or by early 2nd half (I don't exactly remember) but Souness took the game by the scruff of the neck in the second half scored two goals courtesy of his right and left footed shots...

He is no Gerrard in that he does not have that natural lung busting ability but as an all rounder, he is better and perhaps is the best midfield guvnor we ever had.

Posted: **Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:49 am**

Totally agree on Souness. Stevie has some way to go to equal the big Scot. Hard as nails as everyone could tell you but don't forget, what a footballer. At his peak, he was the indisputable king of British midfield players, a little like Keane 5 or 6 years ago or Vierra 2 or 3. Difference between him and them though, I think when Sampadoria signed him he was just about the best midfielder around, anywhere. Absolutely awesome player. Not saying Gerrard won't get to his level, just saying he's not close yet.

Posted: **Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:11 am**

Graeme Souness would have stared the wall out of it and make it collapse out of fear.

dont know what you mean???
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Posted: **Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:30 am**

Lee J wrote:
Graeme Souness would have stared the wall out of it and make it collapse out of fear.

dont know what you mean???
<-----

Posted: **Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:06 pm**

bigmick wrote:Totally agree on Souness. Stevie has some way to go to equal the big Scot. Hard as nails as everyone could tell you but don't forget, what a footballer. At his peak, he was the indisputable king of British midfield players, a little like Keane 5 or 6 years ago or Vierra 2 or 3. Difference between him and them though, I think when Sampadoria signed him he was just about the best midfielder around, anywhere. Absolutely awesome player. Not saying Gerrard won't get to his level, just saying he's not close yet.

IMO Great player that he was he undid alot of that when he was manager.

Posted: **Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:59 pm**

Souness wasn't just a great player, as captain he was also a huge influence in the dressing room. Gerrard hasn't that impact yet. I remember Souness scoring crackers for Liverpool (against United in '78 and Everton in '83 cup final replay come to mind) with both his left and right legs but was he right or left leged naturally ?

Posted: **Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:09 pm**

Souness was one of the best players I've ever seen play (after Kenny).

Now back to "Heart".

I agree with A.B. that WBA and CPFC played with heart and got results that they shouldn't have got.

The reverse of this is that Man Utd and Arsenal also don't raise their games against these smaller clubs.

This will not happen when Arsenal face Liverpool, they'll be up for it.

Yes, we can win but EVERYONE must perform and we have too many prisoners at the moment, the biggest being Harry Kewell.

I think when Rafa talks about mentality, he also means WINNING mentality and we don't have any experience of winning long drawn out campaigns in our team (the Premiership). I'm excluding the cup runs.

This is what he developed at Valencia and is in the process of creating. Those players who cannot perform under pressure and be consistent will probably be shipped out.

I think it's time for 2 x banks of 4, no width and to grind out a result (sounds familiar).

Needs must I'm afraid.

Good luck tonight YNWA.