Liverpool FC Forum

Whenever I see a Maureen team ( Chelsea and ManUre), if you see Spurs or the Arsenal team that went undefeated they are/were always big teams. Playing football is one thing but in the prem especially against the lower table teams you need size and power and as a team we are small. It started with Rodgers with his Barcelona style football buying smaller, skillful players and has somewhat continued under Klopp. We are one of the smallest teams in the league and need to add more height to the team. I found this article and it mentions potential tall players and also suggest what I was thinking.

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/03/tall-orders-7-signings-help-liverpool-reach-new-heights/

Its a good point and sucsessive managers have failed to appreciate how important a physical presence is in English football.

Klopp himself quipped about the conditions, strong winds and tall players, almost as if his balloon had been popped, a man with strong ethics about how football should be played but having it trampled on with brute force and one cross, Pulis.

Defensive midfield is an area we need power and agility even at the expense of technique, and clearly we lack that overall. Window after window we have failed to address this problem.

Klopp and his coaching staff have had long enough now to understand the demands and have the summer to rebuild, not dreaming of beautiful football but fit for purpose in this division.

It's a fair point. Apart from Matip and Lovren, you would struggle to pick out others who really give us an aerial presence. Can is around the 6ft mark and a strong lad but think he looks short in terms of athleticism personally. Hendo and Firmino are just shy of of 6ft and Origi 6'1.The likes of Coutinho, Mane, Lallana, Wijnaldum, Milner and Clyne are all in the 5'7-5'9 range, so maybe when up against a big side, which these lower placed teams usually are,  we will be vulnerable to set pieces and anything in the air.

Along with height, you need that power and athleticism, which is maybe an area we are a little short on. Can has the power but think he is short of athleticism. Hendo has a good engine and covers a lot of ground but maybe isn't as dynamic as some of the other central midfielders in the league. Kante is tiny but not only does he get around the pitch but he does it quickly is always snapping away, zipping about in midfield. Even then, he plays with Matic, who is huge

Do think in this league, you do have to get the balance right in terms of physicality.

Doeboy » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:23 pm wrote:It's a fair point. Apart from Matip and Lovren, you would struggle to pick out others who really give us an aerial presence. Can is around the 6ft mark and a strong lad but think he looks short in terms of athleticism personally. Hendo and Firmino are just shy of of 6ft and Origi 6'1.The likes of Coutinho, Mane, Lallana, Wijnaldum, Milner and Clyne are all in the 5'7-5'9 range, so maybe when up against a big side, which these lower placed teams usually are,  we will be vulnerable to set pieces and anything in the air.

Along with height, you need that power and athleticism, which is maybe an area we are a little short on. Can has the power but think he is short of athleticism. Hendo has a good engine and covers a lot of ground but maybe isn't as dynamic as some of the other central midfielders in the league. Kante is tiny but not only does he get around the pitch but he does it quickly is always snapping away, zipping about in midfield. Even then, he plays with Matic, who is huge

Do think in this league, you do have to get the balance right in terms of physicality.

In boxing they say " a good big man will almost always beat a good little man" and while football is not boxing, it is a battle of sorts and that saying is relevant. According to that article we are the lightest team in terms of kg and the second smallest according to height, that is not finding a balance. Kante as you said is small but Chelsea as a team are big from the goalie to the strikers, so nothing wrong with small players in a big team.

Problem is ( simply) the bigger the player and the more muscle they have so the less endurance as all that muscle needs more oxygen, that is why long distance runners tend to be tiny. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but generally this is the case. Klopp likes a pressing team that out run the other team so his team is more suited to fitter smaller players, bigger stronger  players tend to run less as they don't have to out run since they can out power. To me Klopp is the exact opposite to Maureen in terms of how his teams look and that style has a place, but we need to balance our team with some bigger players when it becomes a physical game.

Bigger goalie, a bigger CB, a bigger CM ( has to be super fit) and a bigger striker ( also has to be super fit) is what we need.

oh right-o so it's the size of the players now?

This team and some of it's members including the manager are falling short - enough with trying to find excuses. Next it'll be "the water isn't soft enough for the tea" or "the players aren't using the right fabric conditioner".

Come on guys it's staring  us and Klopp in the face, it's to do with the size of their feet. We need players with size 10's not size 8's. jeez.

leeroy74 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:39 am wrote:oh right-o so it's the size of the players now?

This team and some of it's members including the manager are falling short - enough with trying to find excuses. Next it'll be "the water isn't soft enough for the tea" or "the players aren't using the right fabric conditioner".

Come on guys it's staring  us and Klopp in the face, it's to do with the size of their feet. We need players with size 10's not size 8's. jeez.

We are the smallest team in the Prem, that needs to be addresssed if we want to battle the physical teams, which most are. It's quite simple really 

I think we are and its not so much about the size but the willingness to get stuck in every week.
A few stats from the offal.

J-Henderson,  2118 minutes played Duels won 135 lost 106 Aerial duels won 26 Lost 23Tackles won 64 Lost 24
A-Lallana, 2072 Minutes playedDuels won 124 Lost 155Aerial duels won 20 Lost 155 Tackles won 33 Lost 16
P-Coutinho  1598 Minutes playedDuels won 104 Lost 152 Aerial duels won 5 Lost 27 Tackles won 17 Lost 9
R-Firmino 27  2405 Minutes played Duels won 175 Lost 297 Aerial Duels won 53 Lost 117 Tackles won 33 Lost 11
S-Mane 25 2183 Minutes played Duels won 179 Lost 243 Aerial Duels won 38 Lost 71 Tackles won 15 Lost 7
G-Wijnaldum  2168 Minutes played Duels won 110 Lost 109 Aerial Duels won 30 Lost 31 Tackles won 25 Lost 11
E-Can  1558 Minutes played Duels won 133 Lost 121 Aerial duels won 52 Lost 36 Tackles won 36 Lost 14

Any league in England you need a variety of options so you can adapt to conditions and tactics not just week to week but during matches.

For some reason recent managers seem stuck with this ideology we must play like a continental team and a big part of Klopps job is moving away from that or he and us will be stuffed, we must adapt starting this summer.

My concern is recruitment is more about business sense (Moneyball) than putting a squad together fit or purpose, and our signings will shine a light on that given our failings are absolutely clear.

kazza » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:12 am wrote:

leeroy74 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:39 am wrote:oh right-o so it's the size of the players now?

This team and some of it's members including the manager are falling short - enough with trying to find excuses. Next it'll be "the water isn't soft enough for the tea" or "the players aren't using the right fabric conditioner".

Come on guys it's staring  us and Klopp in the face, it's to do with the size of their feet. We need players with size 10's not size 8's. jeez.

We are the smallest team in the Prem, that needs to be addresssed if we want to battle the physical teams, which most are. It's quite simple really 

It's not 'simple' as you say. There's more to the issues than the size of the players.

What utter tosh, Cannavaro and Puyol were diminutive in size and in their time two of the best CB's in Europe.  Mascherano at 5ft 8 when he first moved to CB done a brilliant job for Barcelona and Tommy Smith and Crazyhorse himself were only 5ft 10,  if you're good enough you're good enough and that's irrespective of your size 

RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:26 pm wrote:What utter tosh, Cannavaro and Puyol were diminutive in size and in their time two of the best CB's in Europe.  Mascherano at 5ft 8 when he first moved to CB done a brilliant job for Barcelona and Tommy Smith and Crazyhorse himself were only 5ft 10,  if you're good enough you're good enough and that's irrespective of your size 

Are you saying size doesnt matter...?