Liverpool FC Forum

Fowler_E7 » Tue May 16, 2017 2:45 pm wrote:
Any team in the top 3 would bit our hands off for him? Would Chelsea swap him for Costa, Pedro or Hazard? absolutely no chance. Could he get in at Spurs ahead of Kane or Ali? I highly doubt it and would Man City pick him ahead of Aguero or Gabriel Jesus? not a chance

Firmino is no doubt a decent/good player who on his day can be excellent, especially in the games against the top sides were his excellent pressing work is a real asset but as we've seen countless times against the lesser lights of the division he really struggles to provide anything vs a packed defense, his passing is often sloppy and he disappears from games. I think he would be a good quality squad man but id be very disappointed if we start next season with him leading the attack.

Genuine question, who of the players you've named would fit Klopp's system better than Firmino? I mean Mane Coutinho Firmino and Lallana's link up play is quicker and more intelligent than anything on offer from the other attacks you've mentioned, in fact, when those four players are thrown together we're comfortably the most exciting forward line in the country and if you can't see the dividends thats reaping  with the 75 goals we've scored already than I'm more than perplexed with your insistence on constantly finding his performances wanting 

Anyway, I've had my say and if its still in doubt I will cement it with the following: I wouldn't swap Firmino with any of the players you've detailed above!

RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue May 16, 2017 10:11 pm wrote:

Fowler_E7 » Tue May 16, 2017 2:45 pm wrote:
Any team in the top 3 would bit our hands off for him? Would Chelsea swap him for Costa, Pedro or Hazard? absolutely no chance. Could he get in at Spurs ahead of Kane or Ali? I highly doubt it and would Man City pick him ahead of Aguero or Gabriel Jesus? not a chance

Firmino is no doubt a decent/good player who on his day can be excellent, especially in the games against the top sides were his excellent pressing work is a real asset but as we've seen countless times against the lesser lights of the division he really struggles to provide anything vs a packed defense, his passing is often sloppy and he disappears from games. I think he would be a good quality squad man but id be very disappointed if we start next season with him leading the attack.

Genuine question, who of the players you've named would fit Klopp's system better than Firmino? I mean Mane Coutinho Firmino and Lallana's link up play is quicker and more intelligent than anything on offer from the other attacks you've mentioned, in fact, when those four players are thrown together we're comfortably the most exciting forward line in the country and if you can't see the dividends thats reaping  with the 75 goals we've scored already than I'm more than perplexed with your insistence on constantly finding his performances wanting 

Anyway, I've had my say and if its still in doubt I will cement it with the following: I wouldn't swap Firmino with any of the players you've detailed above!

I'd remove Pedro from that list because he's a wide player (a better wide player than Firmino is). Every one of the other names he listed (and you can add at least 5 other forwards) imo are on a completely different level to Firmino. You ask if an Aguero, Costa or Hazard would have as much of an impact in our system as Firmino does ? I think any one of the 3 would have a Suarez-like impact in our system never mind be an improvement on Firmino.

I'll take it one step further, I think a fit Sturridge would be a significant improvement on Firmino. In our current system that is.

If we were to only make 1 transfer in the summer, I'd have bringing in a top forward as top priority. Firmino isnt good enough and Sturridge cant be relied upon. With the amount of possession we have and our ultra attacking style, that would have more of an impact on our results than replacing a Matip,Lovren, or Milner with a Keane or Robertson.

aCe' » Tue May 16, 2017 10:11 pm wrote:

RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue May 16, 2017 10:11 pm wrote:

Fowler_E7 » Tue May 16, 2017 2:45 pm wrote:
Any team in the top 3 would bit our hands off for him? Would Chelsea swap him for Costa, Pedro or Hazard? absolutely no chance. Could he get in at Spurs ahead of Kane or Ali? I highly doubt it and would Man City pick him ahead of Aguero or Gabriel Jesus? not a chance

Firmino is no doubt a decent/good player who on his day can be excellent, especially in the games against the top sides were his excellent pressing work is a real asset but as we've seen countless times against the lesser lights of the division he really struggles to provide anything vs a packed defense, his passing is often sloppy and he disappears from games. I think he would be a good quality squad man but id be very disappointed if we start next season with him leading the attack.

Genuine question, who of the players you've named would fit Klopp's system better than Firmino? I mean Mane Coutinho Firmino and Lallana's link up play is quicker and more intelligent than anything on offer from the other attacks you've mentioned, in fact, when those four players are thrown together we're comfortably the most exciting forward line in the country and if you can't see the dividends thats reaping  with the 75 goals we've scored already than I'm more than perplexed with your insistence on constantly finding his performances wanting 

Anyway, I've had my say and if its still in doubt I will cement it with the following: I wouldn't swap Firmino with any of the players you've detailed above!

I'd remove Pedro from that list because he's a wide player (a better wide player than Firmino is). Every one of the other names he listed (and you can add at least 5 other forwards) imo are on a completely different level to Firmino. You ask if an Aguero, Costa or Hazard would have as much of an impact in our system as Firmino does ? I think any one of the 3 would have a Suarez-like impact in our system never mind be an improvement on Firmino.

I'll take it one step further, I think a fit Sturridge would be a significant improvement on Firmino. In our current system that is.

If we were to only make 1 transfer in the summer, I'd have bringing in a top forward as top priority. Firmino isnt good enough and Sturridge cant be relied upon. With the amount of possession we have and our ultra attacking style, that would have more of an impact on our results than replacing a Matip,Lovren, or Milner with a Keane or Robertson.

My thoughts exactly, we need a top class goalscorer next season. If we had an Aguero, 13/14 Sturridge or Costa upfront with our style of play we would of scored loads more goals, any of those players or another top striker would of bagged 25 leagues goals in this team which would significantly improve our results.

aCe' » Tue May 16, 2017 10:11 pm wrote:
I'll take it one step further, I think a fit Sturridge would be a significant improvement on Firmino. In our current system that is.

If we were to only make 1 transfer in the summer, I'd have bringing in a top forward as top priority. Firmino isnt good enough and Sturridge cant be relied upon. With the amount of possession we have and our ultra attacking style, that would have more of an impact on our results than replacing a Matip,Lovren, or Milner with a Keane or Robertson.

It's not like us to disagree aCe    In all seriousness, I'd bring in Sturridge for Origi but certainly not for Firmino. I mean only City have scored more goals than us this season, so its not rocket science deducing those three front players have a real understanding of each others game and link up almost instinctively.

Like I said in an earlier post I would not swap Firmino for any of those players certainly not for the petulance of Hazard and Costa and the lethargy of a player with all the striking talent in the world but still struggled (or maybe steadfastly refused )to adapt to the manager's new system at City to the point of being dropped for long periods by Guardiola. I'm not saying that a few of the players mentioned aren't world class, I'm saying that when an attacking front line is as effective as ours when those players are on the same field why mess with the only part of our game that's already clicked into place   

Once again, football is a game all about opinions and mine (although not all the time ) tend to differ vastly from yours.

I side with ace and fowler...
I like Firmino, but come on, he cant carry a team on his own. He is an accessory. When you are dressed nicely, accessories make you look nicer. Without Couts, he is reduced to being the brazilian Dirk Kuyt. And that is coming from one of the few Dirk Kuyt fans on this forum. Even then, Kuyt's work rate is higher. In a tight game, Kuyt gives you relieve due to his work rate. Same cant be said for Firmino.

RBG, isnt it obvious that when you have to say the fotward  line of couts, mane, lallana and him, he needs his colleagues to shine? I like him as a player because he tries hard, he has nice turns and ge is not useless. But come on, to say he is the most technically gifted player in the team is putting Coutinho and Lallana down. He May be a starter but he is definitely not a key player. Lord help us all if we pretend ourselves to be a top 4 team and consider Firmino as a key player...

He deserves the goal of tge season though... that is something world class strikers like Suarez and Batistuta would be proud of...

maguskwt » Wed May 17, 2017 1:28 pm wrote:I side with ace and fowler...
I like Firmino, but come on, he cant carry a team on his own. He is an accessory. When you are dressed nicely, accessories make you look nicer. Without Couts, he is reduced to being the brazilian Dirk Kuyt. And that is coming from one of the few Dirk Kuyt fans on this forum. Even then, Kuyt's work rate is higher. In a tight game, Kuyt gives you relieve due to his work rate. Same cant be said for Firmino.

RBG, isnt it obvious that when you have to say the fotward  line of couts, mane, lallana and him, he needs his colleagues to shine? I like him as a player because he tries hard, he has nice turns and ge is not useless. But come on, to say he is the most technically gifted player in the team is putting Coutinho and Lallana down. He May be a starter but he is definitely not a key player. Lord help us all if we pretend ourselves to be a top 4 team and consider Firmino as a key player...

He deserves the goal of tge season though... that is something world class strikers like Suarez and Batistuta would be proud of...

I honestly think it works both ways and he makes Mane and Coutz better players and at the risk of repeating myself I believe he is the most technically gifted player in our team, it's not a case of being unreasonably obdurate I genuinely think he is far more integral to our potency going forward than people give him credit for.

Just for the record Kuyt was one of my favourite players, but to suggest Firmino does not work as hard is ridiculous the lad would be one of the the first names on the team sheet if the Kop picked the team, even when he has a bad game he never stops trying to retrieve possession and pressing from the front. I think you're all missing something 'frontal lobes aside' 

I think it is simplistic to judge him purely on goals scored even though he is a forward considering the way we play and what he is expected to do for the manager, namely press from the front. I checked out his stats and compared him to Aguero, Costa and Hazzard and he out shines them in many way except goals scored and two of those take their team's penalties so minus those penalties he is not a million miles away. Check for yourselves:

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/match/opta-stats/player-comparison

Put Firmino on the left and any other player on the right then check all the stats, not just the obvious ones like goals scored. There is general/defense/attack and you will see he works a lot for the team, a lot more than those players mentioned and he is quite productive. I am not claiming that he is world class because he isn't but he certainly is better than some on here give credit for. looking at his stats it is clear why Klopp plays him. Over the course of a season player stats don't lie and are not based on emotion, they are based on fact unlike supporter judgements that are all about emotion. Let's not forget also that he cost 29 million and they would be double that but he still out does them on many stats.

I'll repeat... I know he is a forward and he is supposed to score but considering the way we play, he is key to others scoring also.

Steven Gerrard says he would have loved to have played in the same team as Firmino


http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/steven-gerrard-top-level-liverpool-13093355

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:Steven Gerrard says he would have loved to have played in the same team as Firmino


http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/steven-gerrard-top-level-liverpool-13093355

What the fu'ck does he know??

My 5 cents worth.

Firmino plays extremely very well in a system with Coutinho, Lallana and Mane up front. We saw that with the goals we were banging in early on in the season.

The problem is that as the season went on and the injuries ramped up + African nations cup ramped up, the formation simply didn't work with Lucas & Can in the same midfield and/or Origi and Sturridge up front.

That's because we simply need a better DM to provide cover for Henderson/Wynaldum and better attacking players to swap out if Coutinho, Lallana and Mane are injured.

We know Origi needs to be moved on, Sturridge is just too unreliable and I personally think Ings' career is all but over at 24.

The answer isn't selling Firmino, the answer is getting rid of possibly all three and bringing in 1-2 players that will bang in just as many goals and assist as many as the current front 4 were at the start of this season.

This will help Klopp implement his system during a lengthy season of league, cup and champions league games. Delivering the consistency we failed to achieve this season.

I agree with eds on everything until the part about selling the top 3 and getting in 1-2 to replace them simply cause it's unrealistic :-)
And it's not easy ticking on all the boxes on Klopp's list what a forward needs to do. A pure lazy goalscorer will NEVER be a part of a Klopp's starting 11.
You need to run and pressure the opponent, be technically gifted who both can pass and score. The current front 3 ticks those boxes but not many in Manure, Chelski, City etc ticks those boxes.

For me what really killed us this season was our paper thin squad. When Mane was at the ACN and Coutinho injured we had nothing to replace them with as Sturridge and Origi lacks certain aspects to make a front 3 in Klopp's system successful.

Penguins » Fri May 26, 2017 11:07 am wrote:I agree with eds on everything until the part about selling the top 3 and getting in 1-2 to replace them simply cause it's unrealistic :-)
And it's not easy ticking on all the boxes on Klopp's list what a forward needs to do. A pure lazy goalscorer will NEVER be a part of a Klopp's starting 11.
You need to run and pressure the opponent, be technically gifted who both can pass and score. The current front 3 ticks those boxes but not many in Manure, Chelski, City etc ticks those boxes.

For me what really killed us this season was our paper thin squad. When Mane was at the ACN and Coutinho injured we had nothing to replace them with as Sturridge and Origi lacks certain aspects to make a front 3 in Klopp's system successful.

Yeah I agree, our front 4 work well together but when we pick up injuries the performance level does drop. We just need to add a bit of depth to our attack.

Algymoon won't be happy 

7_Kewell » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:01 pm wrote:Algymoon won't be happy 

Is he that cerebrally challenged individual who acts like a dog with two dicks or a pig in shit when we lose? Or that forum member whose posts are about as entertaining as watching a rash breakout from your bellend to your ballbag?