Liverpool FC Forum

Kash_Mountain » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:13 am wrote:The top down review is still ongoing. The Owners won't accept 5th (Europa league etc) after spending a lot of money since they've been here. We'll have to see what happens at the end of the season, but a DOF (and potentially  new Head Coach) is likely. BR should have been ready for this game, but he wasn't.

Hopefully new scouts too. We buy manquilo, balotelli, lambert, markovic, lovern and Rodgers doesn't really use them (or play a system that benefits them). Its really a mess.

The_Rock » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:16 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:02 am wrote:criticising the system after our first league defeat in this calendar year is ridiculous. I wouldn't mind but we didn't even use the system for half the game as we were down to 10 men.

If we won against manure....I wouldn't criticise the system. But we didn't. So maybe now it is the right time to reflect.  We play with 3 Cbs and 2 wingbacks.... and when we do that, we are taking away an attacking midfielder or a striker who can do goals.

And furthermore....recent evidence is proving\that managers have found a way to counter this 3-4-3. So what shall we do ? Persist in playing this formation until it becomes unsustainable (like end of last season or beginning of this season) ? Or tweak it to benefit our other attacking players like markovic, balotelli, lambert and sterling ? (I don't wanna see sterling play as a RWB anymore).

This system allows us to flood the midfield, we not only have 2 holding type CM's (Hendo and Allen) we also have 2 AM's in there too (Coutinho and Lallana). That is the whole idea of this system, to dominate the middle of the park.
It didn't work today because no matter what system you use your players have got to turn up, we had too many players having an off day today.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:28 am wrote:

The_Rock » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:16 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:02 am wrote:criticising the system after our first league defeat in this calendar year is ridiculous. I wouldn't mind but we didn't even use the system for half the game as we were down to 10 men.

If we won against manure....I wouldn't criticise the system. But we didn't. So maybe now it is the right time to reflect.  We play with 3 Cbs and 2 wingbacks.... and when we do that, we are taking away an attacking midfielder or a striker who can do goals.

And furthermore....recent evidence is proving\that managers have found a way to counter this 3-4-3. So what shall we do ? Persist in playing this formation until it becomes unsustainable (like end of last season or beginning of this season) ? Or tweak it to benefit our other attacking players like markovic, balotelli, lambert and sterling ? (I don't wanna see sterling play as a RWB anymore).

This system allows us to flood the midfield, we not only have 2 holding type CM's (Hendo and Allen) we also have 2 AM's in there too (Coutinho and Lallana). That is the whole idea of this system, to dominate the middle of the park.
It didn't work today because no matter what system you use your players have got to turn up, we had too many players having an off day today.

It didn't work because hendo and allen lost the midfield battle to fellini.
It didn't work because lallana and coutinho didn't score a worldie.
It didn't work because sterling was so far away from the opposition goal as a WB.

We need goals to win games. We can be depending on worldies from hendo, coutinho and lallana to bail us out every now and then. We need to get more proven goalscorers into the team (balotelli) or play them in their right positions (sterling).

This formation does not benefit most of our players.

The formation does benefit most of our players, where have you been the last 3 and a half months?
We have beaten the likes of City, Spurs and Southampton and played Chelsea and Arsenal off the park at Anfield, we suffer one loss (a loss in which we spent half the game down to 10 men btw) and you want to rip everything up?

The_Rock » Mar 22nd, '15, 18:19 wrote:

Kash_Mountain » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:13 am wrote:The top down review is still ongoing. The Owners won't accept 5th (Europa league etc) after spending a lot of money since they've been here. We'll have to see what happens at the end of the season, but a DOF (and potentially  new Head Coach) is likely. BR should have been ready for this game, but he wasn't.

Hopefully new scouts too. We buy manquilo, balotelli, lambert, markovic, lovern and Rodgers doesn't really use them (or play a system that benefits them). Its really a mess.

That area is being looked at as well, and I believe changes are going to be made (if they haven't already).

I like Joe Allen but in games like this he always seem to come unstuck. When hes good hes very very good, but when hes bad hes a liability. I think hes too small to make a difference against bigger players who want to use their size to bully him, and this ends up making him look like a boy playing against men?

Thommo's perm » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:30 am wrote:I like Joe Allen but in games like this he always seem to come unstuck. When hes good hes very very good, but when hes bad hes a liability. I think hes too small to make a difference against bigger players who want to use their size to bully him, and this ends up making him look like a boy playing against men?

That has always been my opinion, he's a good player but just too small to compete against bigger prem CM.

Thommo's perm » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:30 am wrote:I like Joe Allen but in games like this he always seem to come unstuck. When hes good hes very very good, but when hes bad hes a liability. I think hes too small to make a difference against bigger players who want to use their size to bully him, and this ends up making him look like a boy playing against men?

He's an average player who looks good when players around him are doing well. Not starting 11 material for a top4 side and neither is Lucas for that matter (has a better case than Allen but still). Rodgers needs to rethink his system at th end of the year because given our personnel, we'll come unstuck time and again if we proceed with it.

As I said in the match thread, BRs approach, this tikka-takka possession thing only works against lesser teams and tactics. LVG loves the continental game. It's where he's made his name. He hasn't figured out what to do against the English game and he and his team keep getting assaulted up and down the country. He'd have relished pitting his wits against the egotistical and tactically inferior Brendan Rodgers. He'd have recognised BR's arrogance and predicted that we'd play the same system we always play (of course) and he'd have planned accordingly.
If BR is gonna be the worldie some believe he is then he would have done something yesterday. But he didn't. He sat and watched as his tactics were made impotent by LVG's approach. He had no idea how to change things. He was still trying to rearrange the team some 15 minutes after Gerrard saw red.
I'm afraid BR was fully out-thought and the team fully outplayed.
Sorry folks, but our manager is no genius. I fear he's very average.

RedAnt » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:28 am wrote:As I said in the match thread, BRs approach, this tikka-takka possession thing only works against lesser teams and tactics. LVG loves the continental game. It's where he's made his name. He hasn't figured out what to do against the English game and he and his team keep getting assaulted up and down the country. He'd have relished pitting his wits against the egotistical and tactically inferior Brendan Rodgers. He'd have recognised BR's arrogance and predicted that we'd play the same system we always play (of course) and he'd have planned accordingly.
If BR is gonna be the worldie some believe he is then he would have done something yesterday. But he didn't. He sat and watched as his tactics were made impotent by LVG's approach. He had no idea how to change things. He was still trying to rearrange the team some 15 minutes after Gerrard saw red.
I'm afraid BR was fully out-thought and the team fully outplayed.
Sorry folks, but our manager is no genius. I fear he's very average.

Good... except that we haven't played "tiki taka" football since December of 2012... when it was seen as restricting Gerrard's range of passing.

maguskwt » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:31 am wrote:

RedAnt » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:28 am wrote:As I said in the match thread, BRs approach, this tikka-takka possession thing only works against lesser teams and tactics. LVG loves the continental game. It's where he's made his name. He hasn't figured out what to do against the English game and he and his team keep getting assaulted up and down the country. He'd have relished pitting his wits against the egotistical and tactically inferior Brendan Rodgers. He'd have recognised BR's arrogance and predicted that we'd play the same system we always play (of course) and he'd have planned accordingly.
If BR is gonna be the worldie some believe he is then he would have done something yesterday. But he didn't. He sat and watched as his tactics were made impotent by LVG's approach. He had no idea how to change things. He was still trying to rearrange the team some 15 minutes after Gerrard saw red.
I'm afraid BR was fully out-thought and the team fully outplayed.
Sorry folks, but our manager is no genius. I fear he's very average.

Good... except that we haven't played "tiki taka" football since December of 2012... when it was seen as restricting Gerrard's range of passing.

I'm not great with words but what I mean to say is that BR doesn't seem to have his finger on the pulse in games, or even prior too. In the match thread you've pointed at Gerrard and under performing players. I said before the game that I thought Stevie should play. He'd inject the passion required and the experience and understanding of the fixture. Ok, if he'd started, he may still have had his rush of blood to the head, but I doubt it. What we saw instead, as people have pointed out, was men against boys. So since BR didn't select Gerrard, then as manager it's his duty to mentally prepare the players. Were they prepared? It didn't look they way.
I'd have expected a smart manager to shake things up since he was playing vs a continental mastermind. The belief that his tactics that have worked so well recently would work when up against a manager who loves to play against the European style is very naive and arrogant. BR should be thinking "this will be tough. A test. This guy is much more experienced than I am." But he didn't. He's very confident in himself.
Even LVG, much to his shame, has reverted to long ball when it suits, because used at the right time it gets results. He's also seen his own team come undone to it again and again.
BR isn't capable of thinking on his feet. He needs to bring a plan to the table and if it fails he goes back to the drawing board. He seems unable to tweak it.

Oh lost a game have we?

Rodgers out!!

Pathetic - Get a grip folks - Weve been on an amazing run - It had to end eventually and if Stevie had stayed on the pitch I reckon we would have got something.

Ola Mr Benitez » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:45 am wrote:Oh lost a game have we?

Rodgers out!!

Pathetic - Get a grip folks - Weve been on an amazing run - It had to end eventually and if Stevie had stayed on the pitch I reckon we would have got something.

Oddly enough you're the only person to shout "Rodgers out". Everyone else is discussing suitability, tactics, man-management and stuff. Read the title of the thread you're posting in and you'll get a clue about subject matter.

RedAnt » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:42 am wrote:

maguskwt » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:31 am wrote:

RedAnt » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:28 am wrote:As I said in the match thread, BRs approach, this tikka-takka possession thing only works against lesser teams and tactics. LVG loves the continental game. It's where he's made his name. He hasn't figured out what to do against the English game and he and his team keep getting assaulted up and down the country. He'd have relished pitting his wits against the egotistical and tactically inferior Brendan Rodgers. He'd have recognised BR's arrogance and predicted that we'd play the same system we always play (of course) and he'd have planned accordingly.
If BR is gonna be the worldie some believe he is then he would have done something yesterday. But he didn't. He sat and watched as his tactics were made impotent by LVG's approach. He had no idea how to change things. He was still trying to rearrange the team some 15 minutes after Gerrard saw red.
I'm afraid BR was fully out-thought and the team fully outplayed.
Sorry folks, but our manager is no genius. I fear he's very average.

Good... except that we haven't played "tiki taka" football since December of 2012... when it was seen as restricting Gerrard's range of passing.

I'm not great with words but what I mean to say is that BR doesn't seem to have his finger on the pulse in games, or even prior too. In the match thread you've pointed at Gerrard and under performing players. I said before the game that I thought Stevie should play. He'd inject the passion required and the experience and understanding of the fixture. Ok, if he'd started, he may still have had his rush of blood to the head, but I doubt it. What we saw instead, as people have pointed out, was men against boys. So since BR didn't select Gerrard, then as manager it's his duty to mentally prepare the players. Were they prepared? It didn't look they way.
I'd have expected a smart manager to shake things up since he was playing vs a continental mastermind. The belief that his tactics that have worked so well recently would work when up against a manager who loves to play against the European style is very naive and arrogant. BR should be thinking "this will be tough. A test. This guy is much more experienced than I am." But he didn't. He's very confident in himself.
Even LVG, much to his shame, has reverted to long ball when it suits, because used at the right time it gets results. He's also seen his own team come undone to it again and again.
BR isn't capable of thinking on his feet. He needs to bring a plan to the table and if it fails he goes back to the drawing board. He seems unable to tweak it.

Different kinds of manager do things differently? Weren't   majority of posters on here moaning the fact that Rafa was tweaking too much of his tactics in the league? Weren't they saying that the way you win a league is sticking to your strongest line up and your best tactics and let the other team worry about you? Weren't alot of posters in the match thread acknowledge pre-match that the line-up was the strongest that could be? Alot of the criticism on Rodgers is on hindsight and too easy. I believe Rodgers has the style to win us the league. When his tiki taka football that he relied on at Swansea didn't work with Gerrard and co., he changed it up and improved the team performance at the 2nd half of 12-13 season. In 13-14 season, he further tweaked it to a diamond which saw us in the closest title chase since Liverpool last won it. This season, due to Suarez losing and injury to Sturridge, and having to accommodate a vast number of new players he had to change it again, which saw us make tremendous improvements in the performances. I agree Rodgers may not be very strong in Europe, but if we can keep the continuity he could have us challenging for the title regularly with the likes of city and Chelsea and could win us the league.

I've been much less critical recently, Mags, due to our league performances. Our form has been great. We've been a steadily rolling machine. But when the machine comes up against something different then it grinds to a halt. These are the moments we wait to see what our manager is made of. Two great footballing minds going head to head, turning football to chess, making a great strategical battle that we can't turn our eyes away from. But whilst LVG has been winning things all over Europe, our manager has been managing Swansea and the like. Nothing wrong with that, all gotta start somewhere. But experience and know-how won the day yesterday. LVGs team was up for it. BR's wasn't. Now comes yet another test and a real hard slog to hit 4th. Will we or won't we? There's not much more to it than that. Personally I reckon LVG and Man U will, and we'll be left behind again. We needed to take advantage of the disarray the scum us in, and we've failed. Again.