Liverpool FC Forum

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:22 am wrote:

The_Rock » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:53 am wrote:No matter what combination of defenders we use, the defence as a whole is pretty shocking. That's individually, collectively and includes the goal keeper and midfield cover.

Don't think i am being too harsh when i say it looks completely devoid of organisation and leadership. The blame solely has to go to the coaching setup.

We can blame the owners for being naive for thinking that they can implement their baseball theories to soccer, we can blame the transfer committee for signing too many average players....etc. But when Tony Pulis can come in and make crystal palace defence (who are average players) look like world beaters ..... You have to ask questions on the coaching set-up we have here.

I can seriously see us being caught up in a relegation battle if things don't pick up.

The defence is a serious concern, we have conceded 29 goals in all competitions so far and we are still only in November, if we carry on at this rate we'll end up conceding 70-80 goals this season.

...and mind you the majority of them are soft goals. It's not like we didn't spend to shore up the defence, but the leadership and organisation are all over the place you wondered if they ever trained together

Are we an attracticve prospect to a new manager that can take us forward now ?

Sitting 12th in the league and on the edge of not qualifying for europe, Due to FFP we dont have much of a transfer kitty for a manager to bring in his players in january.

The likes of Frank De boer and Jurgen KLopp wont see much of an oppurtnuity to show their great managerial qualities with this poor side and no money to build their own

Personally I think if BR goes we will be doomed with a lesser manager, Didnt someone mention Topny Pulid 

Kopite-Jud » Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:37 am wrote:Last night I have seen a side to him I've never seen. He was infuriated/ agitated and kicking water bottles down the line.

He came out and said we were good?

The two goals conceded were totally avoidable.

The pressure of the job is clearly getting to him

its called not running your own team down live on tv, I bet he did not tell the players they were good.

This completion is a bit of a money making joke. If we win against Basel we get through to the last 16. Buy a couple of players in January and go on and win it 

My issue is that we are being outplayed by lesser teams that want it more and that is a failure of the manager. This suggests to me that there is disharmony in the team and frankly I do not see them playing for each other. Last year there seemed to be a great spirit in the team which has been lacking this year. Something is going on behind closed doors that is affecting team moral.

In a way maybe we should have lost last night as the way they are playing they deserve a little infamy (losing five in row). I defended Houllier, Rafa and Kenny but I am for the first time feeling maybe there is a problem with Rodgers. It does baffle the mind why he bought too many similar players while leaving the obvious problems unaddressed. I see that he bought young and that those players will improve but it was obvious he needed to replace Suarez with a player of a similar mold. Without blaming Mario but he is lazy, sulky and nowhere near the team player Suarez was, leaving the skill to one side. Basically no different to how he has been his whole career.

Going back to my original point, there is no excuse to lose to weaker teams that want it more. Palace and Ludogorets (?) yesterday fought much harder, ran more and generally had a much better team spirit than we did, and that is the managers responsibility. The Ludogorets manager said before the match that they have a good chance because we were weak mentally. That is an insult that should have been rammed down his throat but did we? As it happens he was right.

We lose CL football next year and again we will not be able to attract good players. This year could be a much heavier lost opportunity than failing to win the league last year.

Another thing which bugs me.....Whats up with Rodgers and his lack of substitutions ? Whats the use of buying tons of players to bulk up the squad and then be miser with his subs ?

Case in point - the UCL match. Gerrard and Lambert were a spent force around the 70th min. Surely this is the time to bring in borini and coutinho for both of them right ?

It is amazing how incompetent Rodgers comes across if you really analyse his performance.

devaney » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:48 am wrote:This completion is a bit of a money making joke. If we win against Basel we get through to the last 16. Buy a couple of players in January and go on and win it 

Consider the parallels to the CL winning season of 2005. The similarities are actually quite stark.

Squad comparison
The 2004-05 players are ordered by appearance

Defence

2004-05 - Dudek, Riise, Carragher, Hyypia, Traore, Warnock, Josemi, Pelligrino
2014-15 - Mignolet, Johnson, Skrtel, Toure, Lovren, Moreno, Manquillo, Enrique

Midfield

2004-05 - Garcia, Gerrard, Hamann, Biscan, Alonso, Kewell, Nunez, Smicer, Diao, Le Tallec
2014-15 - Gerrard, Coutinho, Henderson, Lallana, Lucas, Can, Allen, Suso, Sterling, Markovic

Forwards

2004-05 - Baros, Sinama Pongolle, Cisse, Mellor, Morientes
2014-15 - Lambert, Sturridge, Borini, Balotelli

In my opinion theres not much in it. 2004-05 defence wins, Midfield is a tie if considered across starting XI and bench. Forwards, for me this year even without Suarez.

-----

Another good comparison is League and CL performances.

By this time (game 12) in 2004, we had the following league and CL record.

League - W6 D2 L4 20pts 6th
CL - W2 D1 L2 7pts 3rd

Now

League - W4 D2 L6 14pts 12th
CL - W1 D1 L3 4pts 3rd

Obviously this season is a shocker but the 2004-05 was by no means happy days, even by this seasons standards 2004 was a poor start.

--------

I guess what I take from those comparisons, is how a season can be salvaged despite having a relatively poor or under performing squad and a bad start to the season.

Our next five games are

Stoke (H) - League
Leicester (A) - League
Sunderland (H) - League
Basel (H) - CL
Man Utd (A) - League

It is this period that I truly think will decide the fate of this season. Failure to capitalise on the next three leagues fixtures will lead to CL exit IMO. Inversely winning these and doing enough to qualify for the knock out stages may be the bump start we've been searching for.

For the first time I can truthfully say the Kops love affair with the manager is seriously on the wane ,what kind of a man doesn't return your calls 
There's a line from a film where Sigourney Weaver says " HE'S PISSING ON US WITHOUT EVEN THE COURTESY OF CALLING IT RAIN " never was
a line out of a shit film more apt.

Santa » Nov 27th, '14, 09:08 wrote:

Reg » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:41 am wrote:If you want to get BR out Eds you'll have to expand your one man crusade outside of this forum.

If you think this is a one man crusade, then you're seriously deluded. While I don't think the need for knee jerk reaction, but the results thus far showed me a man that the club should not trust with large transfer funds and to bring the club forward. I believe there are better candidates out there with a much proven pedigree for this role. The man is seriously in denial and he have no idea on how to fix things without slightly hurting his ego. He happily swallow up all the accolades last season so this must be a reality check to many of us who thought we finally have a forward looking manager...and now this shit

I understand fans saying that he should be given time to turn things around. However, in today's game where millions upon millions of pounds are at stake, it's not viable. LFC sit near the bottom of the table, and BR just doesn't seem to know how to change things. He continues with his 'philosophy' week in week out, hoping to get a different result playing the same system and players. It has not worked, at all.  He is so stubborn and arrogant that he won't drop players because it will hurt his pride. One exception is SG. A lot of fans will say that he’s been the face of LFC, true, unfortunately, that has repercussions as it has resulted in him getting much bigger than just a ‘player’ SG has grown too powerful at the Club and BR imo is running scared because of this, that's why he won't drop him.  SG should never have been allowed to get this powerful . A top class Coach or Manager wouldn’t stand for it regardless of ones stature at the Club...  As for Skrtel, and Johnson etc, well that’s a BR lovefest. It just shows that he really doesn’t understand LFC and what it takes to get the Club to the next level. Whether he says it or not, we are in transition, big time, because of the amounts that have been spent, the Clubs current standing in the EPL and CL. The Club stands to lose millions if they do not qualify for the next round in CL. Additionally, from what I’ve heard from some mates, some part of the CL monies coming to the Club is being withheld pending FFP investigation.

The way BR he has handled everything thus  far  on the pitch and the media this season is really hurting the Club. I’ve heard that the Owners et al have asked him repeatedly to really  think about what he wants to say before he speaks to the media.

He’s made several promises and very much looks like he won’t be able to keep them, especially regarding EPL and CL.  Fantastic amounts of money have been invested by the Owners, however, this has largely been wasted. On top of all that, The Club are now heavily in Debt (and it’s growing). Had the money been spent wisely on players, not potential but established players who could have moved the Club forward this season, then I’m pretty sure that would have reaped rewards. Instead, BR and the Committee buy loads of potential so that we could ‘one day’ be top of the table. hence, the promise he made about the winning the EPL,…..well he can’t deliver it this season.  The Club doesn’t even look like they can finish top 4.  Drastic changes have to be made, otherwise we will be in a relegation dogfight at this rate.

IMO, I don’t think he will be Coach next season (he is a Coach not a Manager, not yet anyway).   The Owners will be looking over everything, every detail with a fine tooth comb  from Coaching staff, how players are coached and Transfer Committee amongst it all. When the time is right, they will make their decision. I think their decision will be made very soon.  The Owners will bring in a DOF, that’s for sure, someone that has a clear style that can be easily implemented and a very good idea about the types and sorts of players needed to compliment the style.

describe rodgers in 3 words..
1. SAME.
2. SAME.
3. SAME.

our current league form looks like this as of 27th nov 2014 after 12 games
(P) 12 (W)4 (D)2 (L)6 (GF)15 (GA)18 (GD) -3 (PTS) 14

In Rodgers 1st season we looked like this after the same amount of games on 17th nov 2012.

(P)12 (W)3 (D)6 (L)3 (GF)17 (GA)16 (GD)1 (PTS) 15

Over 20 players later and Over £200 mil spent and this is where we are at    Back to square one again.
whats more is he doesn't have the quality players to turn it around and is heavily reliant on ageing players to make up a starting 11, what the fook has he done with the money when you look at the state of our team never even mind the squad.
Tactically he only has one and its not going to change, even if he does it will only last a game or 2 and it will be back to the only thing he knows, he should be binned off as soon as our season is finished and we move on again with someone more qualified to match the ambition of the club and fans. I would say the players as well but i think he has driven any ambition out of them they had.
Last night was our biggest game of the season to date and our 2 marquee signings in lallana and markovic no where to be seen on the field 

if br manage to survive till jan transfer window,
he will be given i think 20-30m to buy some new players,
a normal rational thinking manager will concentrate the funds in defensive players,
but if br decide to spend all the funds into shiqiri or anther winger, then he deserves to be sack
and be ridicule and go back to managing small clubs.

if we lose anther match i see him being sack and the funds reserve for the new manager.

Octsky » Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:32 am wrote:if br manage to survive till jan transfer window,
he will be given i think 20-30m to buy some new players,
a normal rational thinking manager will concentrate the funds in defensive players,
but if br decide to spend all the funds into shiqiri or anther winger, then he deserves to be sack
and be ridicule and go back to managing small clubs.

if we lose anther match i see him being sack and the funds reserve for the new manager.

I agree but there is a school of thought that says if we had scored more, especially early on in the game, we subsequently would dictate the game more. I.e. force the team to attack and utilise our counterattack.

I can see Rodgers moving for an established forward.

SouthCoastShankly » Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:49 pm wrote:

devaney » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:48 am wrote:This completion is a bit of a money making joke. If we win against Basel we get through to the last 16. Buy a couple of players in January and go on and win it 

Consider the parallels to the CL winning season of 2005. The similarities are actually quite stark.

Squad comparison
The 2004-05 players are ordered by appearance

Defence

2004-05 - Dudek, Riise, Carragher, Hyypia, Traore, Warnock, Josemi, Pelligrino
2014-15 - Mignolet, Johnson, Skrtel, Toure, Lovren, Moreno, Manquillo, Enrique

Midfield

2004-05 - Garcia, Gerrard, Hamann, Biscan, Alonso, Kewell, Nunez, Smicer, Diao, Le Tallec
2014-15 - Gerrard, Coutinho, Henderson, Lallana, Lucas, Can, Allen, Suso, Sterling, Markovic

Forwards

2004-05 - Baros, Sinama Pongolle, Cisse, Mellor, Morientes
2014-15 - Lambert, Sturridge, Borini, Balotelli

In my opinion theres not much in it. 2004-05 defence wins, Midfield is a tie if considered across starting XI and bench. Forwards, for me this year even without Suarez.

-----

Another good comparison is League and CL performances.

By this time (game 12) in 2004, we had the following league and CL record.

League - W6 D2 L4 20pts 6th
CL - W2 D1 L2 7pts 3rd

Now

League - W4 D2 L6 14pts 12th
CL - W1 D1 L3 4pts 3rd

Obviously this season is a shocker but the 2004-05 was by no means happy days, even by this seasons standards 2004 was a poor start.

--------

I guess what I take from those comparisons, is how a season can be salvaged despite having a relatively poor or under performing squad and a bad start to the season.

Our next five games are

Stoke (H) - League
Leicester (A) - League
Sunderland (H) - League
Basel (H) - CL
Man Utd (A) - League

It is this period that I truly think will decide the fate of this season. Failure to capitalise on the next three leagues fixtures will lead to CL exit IMO. Inversely winning these and doing enough to qualify for the knock out stages may be the bump start we've been searching for.

I agree with the similarities compared to 2004/2005. However that season we were plagued with injuries to Djbril Cisse (leg break), Smicer, Xabi Alonso (Lampard tackle), Steven Gerrard (broken metatarsal), and Harry Kewell but still statistically did better than our current team only missing 2 players (Daniel Surridge, and Flanno). It was Rafa's season debut which was an exception compared to Brendan's 3rd season in charge.