Liverpool FC Forum

Thought we should have a thread for our defence, seeing it generates so much debate...

Today I thought it looked a LOT better at the back, with a solid movement and constant communication. For sure, there were mistakes with Lovren and Sakho getting their position all wrong and both centre backs looking nervous..but it just felt like there was light at the end of the tunnel.

In the second half, we looked a lot more composed and all of our defenders and keeper were constantly talking. I also think Moreno is going to be a real superstar. 
Clearly, Manquillo is an improvement over Johnson, but Flanno should be the starter for me as Manquillo is a long way off the finished article. Don’t get me wrong, Flanno is by no means the complete full back either, but he’s a few steps above the Spaniard. However, BR needs to pick his preferred CB pariing and get them working together. At the moment our centre backs look like strangers and only a run of 15—20 games will gel a CB paring.

7_Kewell » Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:29 pm wrote:Thought we should have a thread for our defence, seeing it generates so much debate...

Today I thought it looked a LOT better at the back, with a solid movement and constant communication. For sure, there were mistakes with Lovren and Sakho getting their position all wrong and both centre backs looking nervous..but it just felt like there was light at the end of the tunnel.

In the second half, we looked a lot more composed and all of our defenders and keeper were constantly talking. I also think Moreno is going to be a real superstar. 
Clearly, Manquillo is an improvement over Johnson, but Flanno should be the starter for me as Manquillo is a long way off the finished article. Don’t get me wrong, Flanno is by no means the complete full back either, but he’s a few steps above the Spaniard. However, BR needs to pick his preferred CB pariing and get them working together. At the moment our centre backs look like strangers and only a run of 15—20 games will gel a CB paring.

It's interesting on your comparison of the Spanish fullbacks. I've read somewhere, I forgot where, a well known and experienced Spanish scout saying that Moreno was good, but that manquillo was special, and that he could become a real world class player. I do hope that we buy him permanently for us...

Was really impressed by the fullbacks. Like I said in the match thread, they were my man of the match. We have Enrique and Flanagan too, so we're pretty good in both quality and depth in those positions.

As for the CBs, it was really frustrating to watch them today at times, they looked very nervous. Improved in the second half but that was probably more down to Spurs not giving us too much trouble. However, I think with a bit more time and as they get used to each other and get to know each other better, our defece will improve. Time is key IMO.

I know he was only on for 10 mins, but I thought Enrique looked off the pace and unfit. Which is understandable, given the time he's been out.

Realistically yesterdays back five is our strongest as a unit, the only way they will get better as a group is to get a run of games together.
Perfect example was when Lovren went for a aerial challenge that was Sakho's to make (lead to the chance for Chadli), that mistake was rectified during the game by the two CBs and we seen 3-4 examples of the situation being defended propely later in the 2nd half.

I do have a lot of man love for Flanagan, he is LFC through and through but he isnt as good as Manquillo. At this stage of their developement Manquillo's physical attributes make him a better player.
Most importantly he was scouted based on his ability to defend crosses, in the last two years of La Liga Manquillo was 2nd in the stats for crosses blocked (Btw 2nd only to Moreno), this was a major criteria for the FB's we looked at this summer.

So far, defensively I'm not totally convinced by Manquillo but it's still early days and my opinion may change once the lad has had time to settle.  Moreno was sensational yesterday, his performance has more than atoned for the error he made against city. As for the CB's as many have said, it's gonna take game time for a new pairing to form a partnership, don't know what BR's choice will be when Skrtles' fit again but personally I'd like to see Lovren and Sakho given some kind of run together.

woof woof ! » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:20 am wrote:So far, defensively I'm not totally convinced by Manquillo but it's still early days and my opinion may change once the lad has had time to settle.  Moreno was sensational yesterday, his performance has more than atoned for the error he made against city. As for the CB's as many have said, it's gonna take game time for a new pairing to form a partnership, don't know what BR's choice will be when Skrtles' fit again but personally I'd like to see Lovren and Sakho given some kind of run together.

I'd be happy to see Sakho back on the bench.

He was an accident waiting to happen yesterday.

Mignolet pulled out a massive save against Chadli, after Sakho was caught ball watching. He also gave a couple of horrendous passes away.

SouthCoastShankly » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:33 am wrote:

woof woof ! » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:20 am wrote:So far, defensively I'm not totally convinced by Manquillo but it's still early days and my opinion may change once the lad has had time to settle.  Moreno was sensational yesterday, his performance has more than atoned for the error he made against city. As for the CB's as many have said, it's gonna take game time for a new pairing to form a partnership, don't know what BR's choice will be when Skrtles' fit again but personally I'd like to see Lovren and Sakho given some kind of run together.

I'd be happy to see Sakho back on the bench.

He was an accident waiting to happen yesterday.

Mignolet pulled out a massive save against Chadli, after Sakho was caught ball watching. He also gave a couple of horrendous passes away.

The guy does lack composure on the ball...perhaps it's just nerves and a run in the side would fix it?

Wasn't just Sakho that had dodgy moments yesterday SCS , Lovren also had his moments as did Gerrard. But I'll admit early on Sakho looked as though he was really going to cost us but he improved as the game went on. Sakho and Lovren will get it sorted if they're given time to gel.

woof woof ! » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:08 am wrote:Wasn't just Sakho that had dodgy moments yesterday SCS , Lovren also had his moments as did Gerrard. But I'll admit early on Sakho looked as though he was really going to cost us but he improved as the game went on. Sakho and Lovren will get it sorted if they're given time to gel.

Lovren did make a couple of mistakes, but he also has the legs on him to get back and rectify them. He's very quick. which is a big improvement over Agger, who's pace suffered after years of injuries.

SouthCoastShankly » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:33 am wrote:

woof woof ! » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:20 am wrote:So far, defensively I'm not totally convinced by Manquillo but it's still early days and my opinion may change once the lad has had time to settle.  Moreno was sensational yesterday, his performance has more than atoned for the error he made against city. As for the CB's as many have said, it's gonna take game time for a new pairing to form a partnership, don't know what BR's choice will be when Skrtles' fit again but personally I'd like to see Lovren and Sakho given some kind of run together.

I'd be happy to see Sakho back on the bench.

He was an accident waiting to happen yesterday.

Mignolet pulled out a massive save against Chadli, after Sakho was caught ball watching. He also gave a couple of horrendous passes away.

That was actually Lovren's fault, Adebayor was Sakho's man but for some reason Lovren came charging out and missed everything including the ball leaving a huge void behind him and his CB partner stranded.
Lovren is a good defender but he makes rash decisions, there's nothing wrong with being aggressive and trying to win every ball but sometimes he's got to temper that instinct by asking himself the question 'what happens if I don't win this ball?'
If there is no cover behind him he's better off just staying on his feet and jockeying the player until reinforcements arrive, once or twice yesterday he dived into tackles that he didn't make and against better players that would be a goal.
As the leader of our back line he should be cool, calm and collected, not succumbing to rushes of blood to the head every ten minutes.

Agree with Yakka about the Chadli chance.
It was Sakhos ball to win and Lovren should have been covering behing if Sakho doesnt win the header.
I think things like that will hopefully improve with time. Sakho is strong enough in the air to win his battles. Lovren will hopefully trust his partner more once he sees this.
Woof not sure why Manquillo doesnt convince you defensively. I think he looks great defensively, it's the going forward and final third stuff I am not sure about yet.
But one v one he looks decent defending.
Moreno was great yesterday and I dont want to go overboard after one performance but the pace and power he has makes him look like he could be outstanding in this Liverpool team.
Very excited by him.

Ben Patrick » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:49 pm wrote:Woof not sure why Manquillo doesnt convince you defensively. I think he looks great defensively, it's the going forward and final third stuff I am not sure about yet.
But one v one he looks decent defending.

Maybe I need to watch the game again Ben but I felt on occasion people were getting past him a little too easily. Still early days so my opinion's not set in stone .

p.s. also wondering about his fitness, at one point after a bit of a sprint he was blowing like he'd just run a marathon, haven't seen the stats so maybe he had   

I thought the defence was massively improved on Sunday, Johnson and Skertl are masssive liabilitys these days and there replacements really steadied the ship without even being outstanding. Sakho should definetely be first choice alongside Lovren as his positional sense is far superior to Skertl. I defended Johnson for a long time but he is finished at this level and should be removed from the starting 11 permanetly. Im not convinced that Manquilo is anything special but him and Flannagan are a  much safer bet then Johnson.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:40 am wrote:

SouthCoastShankly » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:33 am wrote:

woof woof ! » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:20 am wrote:So far, defensively I'm not totally convinced by Manquillo but it's still early days and my opinion may change once the lad has had time to settle.  Moreno was sensational yesterday, his performance has more than atoned for the error he made against city. As for the CB's as many have said, it's gonna take game time for a new pairing to form a partnership, don't know what BR's choice will be when Skrtles' fit again but personally I'd like to see Lovren and Sakho given some kind of run together.

I'd be happy to see Sakho back on the bench.

He was an accident waiting to happen yesterday.

Mignolet pulled out a massive save against Chadli, after Sakho was caught ball watching. He also gave a couple of horrendous passes away.

That was actually Lovren's fault, Adebayor was Sakho's man but for some reason Lovren came charging out and missed everything including the ball leaving a huge void behind him and his CB partner stranded.
Lovren is a good defender but he makes rash decisions, there's nothing wrong with being aggressive and trying to win every ball but sometimes he's got to temper that instinct by asking himself the question 'what happens if I don't win this ball?'
If there is no cover behind him he's better off just staying on his feet and jockeying the player until reinforcements arrive, once or twice yesterday he dived into tackles that he didn't make and against better players that would be a goal.
As the leader of our back line he should be cool, calm and collected, not succumbing to rushes of blood to the head every ten minutes.

I disagree.

If you watch back the game, or at least the highlights, you'll see that Lovren man marks Adebayor. It's clearly a tactical choice by Rodgers.

Lovren tracks his man and jumps for the header. If Sakho had continued to be the spare man, as he had been for the rest of the game, he would have been well positioned to intercept Chadli's run.