Liverpool FC Forum

Ben Patrick » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:42 am wrote:

jacdaniel » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:18 am wrote:In Kenny's full season as manager, Lucas got injured badly in December.  He was ruled out for the rest of the year. 
2nd half of that season we had relegation form which eventually led to Kenny getting sacked.
In Rodgers first season, Lucas missed september to december or so.  He came back into the team and we started playing well.  (although everyone will say that was down to Coutinho and Sturridge).

First half against Villa.  No lucas and we are 2 - 0 down.  All down to Villa having an extra man in midfield? 

The point is... we have always struggled without Lucas in the team. 
If Lucas is going to miss the majority of this season we would be mad not to sign a proper DM and it could potentially cost us our season.

I'm not having that about the league form one bit mate.

We had given up on the league for me and lost games near the end to the likes of Fulham at home as we were focused on the FA cup.
Lucas is a steady eddie but doesnt offer anywhere near enough for me.

I honestly dont think he will be very difficult to replace if we want to bring in another defensive style midfielder.
There are links with De Jong this morning who could easily come in and do that job.

Its a fact that we've always performed worse when he is out of the team.  Possibly a coincidence but the timeframes are large enough to least consider that we've done better with him in the side.

I do agree that we could probably upgrade on him if we tried.  For some reason we haven't even tried to sign a DM though. 

I don't think Rodgers really wants an out an out DM to be honest though.  I think he wants someone who can dictate the game, take the ball off our defenders and defend as well.  (with Rodgers the defending is probably the lowest priority    )

If reports are true that we are going to bring De Jong in on loan to accommodate for the injury to Lucas, I will jizz myself.

jacdaniel » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:24 pm wrote:

Ben Patrick » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:42 am wrote:

jacdaniel » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:18 am wrote:In Kenny's full season as manager, Lucas got injured badly in December.  He was ruled out for the rest of the year. 
2nd half of that season we had relegation form which eventually led to Kenny getting sacked.
In Rodgers first season, Lucas missed september to december or so.  He came back into the team and we started playing well.  (although everyone will say that was down to Coutinho and Sturridge).

First half against Villa.  No lucas and we are 2 - 0 down.  All down to Villa having an extra man in midfield? 

The point is... we have always struggled without Lucas in the team. 
If Lucas is going to miss the majority of this season we would be mad not to sign a proper DM and it could potentially cost us our season.

I'm not having that about the league form one bit mate.

We had given up on the league for me and lost games near the end to the likes of Fulham at home as we were focused on the FA cup.
Lucas is a steady eddie but doesnt offer anywhere near enough for me.

I honestly dont think he will be very difficult to replace if we want to bring in another defensive style midfielder.
There are links with De Jong this morning who could easily come in and do that job.

Its a fact that we've always performed worse when he is out of the team.  Possibly a coincidence but the timeframes are large enough to least consider that we've done better with him in the side.

I do agree that we could probably upgrade on him if we tried.  For some reason we haven't even tried to sign a DM though. 

I don't think Rodgers really wants an out an out DM to be honest though.  I think he wants someone who can dictate the game, take the ball off our defenders and defend as well.  (with Rodgers the defending is probably the lowest priority    )

We perform worse (not all the time) because he is in a critical position which needs to be filled. It's not the player it's the position. And while I hate to see a player being injured it's a golden opportunity to upgrade this position right now.

Ben - I'm not simply blaming Gerrard for the Villa result. I am just making the point that he was one of the key reasons we failed to put away a very average team. Our fullbacks were also useless and BR got the first half tactics completely wrong and took too long to change the formation. I agree we won the second half because there was less pressure on the midfield but really the two Villa goals in the first half were as much about defensive frailties as anything else.

devaney » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:58 pm wrote:Ben - I'm not simply blaming Gerrard for the Villa result. I am just making the point that he was one of the key reasons we failed to put away a very average team. Our fullbacks were also useless and BR got the first half tactics completely wrong and took too long to change the formation. I agree we won the second half because there was less pressure on the midfield but really the two Villa goals in the first half were as much about defensive frailties as anything else.

So serious question, if we swap Lucas for Gerrard and play that same formation with the same attacking 4 players, do you think it works ?

Let's just sign Tom Huddlestone. He's great with his free-kicks and would give us a physical edge in the middle.

maypaxvobiscum » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:37 pm wrote:Let's just sign Tom Huddlestone. He's great with his free-kicks and would give us a physical edge in the middle.

Is that a joke ?

He also cant run and loves a hollywood pass.

maypaxvobiscum » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:37 pm wrote:Let's just sign Tom Huddlestone. He's great with his free-kicks and would give us a physical edge in the middle.

and he is slower than Gareth Barry, which is some achievement

Ben Patrick » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:12 pm wrote:

devaney » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:58 pm wrote:Ben - I'm not simply blaming Gerrard for the Villa result. I am just making the point that he was one of the key reasons we failed to put away a very average team. Our fullbacks were also useless and BR got the first half tactics completely wrong and took too long to change the formation. I agree we won the second half because there was less pressure on the midfield but really the two Villa goals in the first half were as much about defensive frailties as anything else.

So serious question, if we swap Lucas for Gerrard and play that same formation with the same attacking 4 players, do you think it works ?

Suarez and Sturridge in attack with Coutinho left and Sterling right with Gerrard and Henderson in the middle with Henderson playing a more attacking role. I'm ok with that and think it's a formation that could cause a lot of problems for most teams. My biggest problem is what we do with the fullbacks because at the moment they are both a liability. Johnson's recent behaviour in court was not his greatest hour and tells me things about the lad that I'm not impressed with. However his infield performances are even worse. Allen has also shown signs of improvement and could certainly be utilised as a decent sub.

Devaney the balance of that team is shocking and it would be beaten by any half decent premiership side. 4 attacking players is too much that's been shown against villa. Against Oldham and Southampton last season we did the same and were a shambles.

From Lucas own Twitter account....

I would like to let you know that my injury isn't serious and I will be back in a few weeks.
Thanks
#relieved #thedreamstillalive

devaney » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:20 pm wrote:Suarez and Sturridge in attack with Coutinho left and Sterling right with Gerrard and Henderson in the middle with Henderson playing a more attacking role. I'm ok with that and think it's a formation that could cause a lot of problems for most teams. .

That's probably one of the worst decisions that Rodgers has ever made regarding the line-up and formation. As Ben said, there is no balance in there what so ever. I thought that we'd use Coutinho as a third midfielder playing in the hole, just in front of Gerrard and Henderson. That way we would have had a bit more balance but the way Rodgers played it on Saturday was a very good example of how to f*ck things up. No wonder we got over ran by the likes of El Ahmadi and Westwood.

I still think that Gerrard won't make it in the holding pivot role that Rodgers wants him to play, but let's just wait and see how he'll fare when the balance in the team is better.

Anyway, good news about Lucas that. Still need to sign a new midfielder though.

SouthCoastShankly » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:52 pm wrote:

maypaxvobiscum » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:37 pm wrote:Let's just sign Tom Huddlestone. He's great with his free-kicks and would give us a physical edge in the middle.

and he is slower than Gareth Barry, which is some achievement

We need someone like Albertini or Redondo. Loved watching those midfielders growing up.

jacdaniel wrote:

Ben Patrick » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:42 am wrote:

jacdaniel » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:18 am wrote:In Kenny's full season as manager, Lucas got injured badly in December.  He was ruled out for the rest of the year. 
2nd half of that season we had relegation form which eventually led to Kenny getting sacked.
In Rodgers first season, Lucas missed september to december or so.  He came back into the team and we started playing well.  (although everyone will say that was down to Coutinho and Sturridge).

First half against Villa.  No lucas and we are 2 - 0 down.  All down to Villa having an extra man in midfield? 

The point is... we have always struggled without Lucas in the team. 
If Lucas is going to miss the majority of this season we would be mad not to sign a proper DM and it could potentially cost us our season.

I'm not having that about the league form one bit mate.

We had given up on the league for me and lost games near the end to the likes of Fulham at home as we were focused on the FA cup.
Lucas is a steady eddie but doesnt offer anywhere near enough for me.

I honestly dont think he will be very difficult to replace if we want to bring in another defensive style midfielder.
There are links with De Jong this morning who could easily come in and do that job.

Its a fact that we've always performed worse when he is out of the team.  Possibly a coincidence but the timeframes are large enough to least consider that we've done better with him in the side.

I do agree that we could probably upgrade on him if we tried.  For some reason we haven't even tried to sign a DM though. 

I don't think Rodgers really wants an out an out DM to be honest though.  I think he wants someone who can dictate the game, take the ball off our defenders and defend as well.  (with Rodgers the defending is probably the lowest priority    )

Absolute rubbish.

Since he's come into the team as a regular we've gone from being a champions league side, to a slightly better than mid table team. You want to talk about time frames... talk about them from the start of his Liverpool career, do not manipulate them to suit your arguement.

He's a bog standard midfielder who could be replaced with around 75% of midfield players in the league.

Someone mentioned Huddlestone earlier, while I don't believe him to be the answer and he's not the most mobile of players he certainly brings more to the table than Lucas ever will.

Ben Patrick » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:06 pm wrote:Devaney the balance of that team is shocking and it would be beaten by any half decent premiership side. 4 attacking players is too much that's been shown against villa. Against Oldham and Southampton last season we did the same and were a shambles.

I think you could get away with 4 attacking players in a 4-4-2 providing you have the right balance in midfield. As you correctly state, our balance was not there. Henderson isn't exactly good in the tackle or what you'd call a dictator of a game and Gerrard doesn't have enough mobility or tactical discipline to pull that roll off in a two...

Add to the fact Coutinho had a mare and we were always going to struggle.

Still, its easier to just blame the hole performance on Gerrard.