Liverpool FC Forum

Posted: **Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:48 pm**

A new Sculptor commemorating Hillsborough has been commissioned and im sorry if i offend anyone on here but i find it very distasteful, Its horrific, in my opinion, What is wrong with the Eternal Flame, Theres quite a few Liverpool supporters an Families of those who lost there loved ones absolutly mortified by this Sculptor, An as someone who was there i am to ,

A planned memorial to the survivors of the Hillsborough Disaster has triggered a huge row with allegations that its design is "insensitive" and "sickening".

As a model of what would be a 15 foot-high sculpture went on public display at a hotel in the city there were calls for it to be consigned to the dustbin.

Internet forums were innundated with messages from Reds' supporters expressing shock and disgust at the sculptor's graphic depiction of the events of 15th April 1989.

Survivors and relatives of those who died slammed the statue, designed by Merseyside sculptor Tony Evans, as "wholly inappropriate" and "horrific".

A plans to include the names of the 96 supporters who lost their lives at the FA Cup Semi-Final in Sheffield, were dropped after official objections from relatives of three victims.

The plan for the memorial began last year and is said to have been fostered by last year's Lord Mayor of Liverpool Steve Rotheram.

The idea of a memorial to the survivors also won the backing of the Hillsborough Family Support Group (HFSG).

But after the furore over the design prompted leaders of the HFSG to withdraw their support for the scheme.

Anne Williams' son Kevin was one of the 96 Liverpool supporters who lost their lives on the Leppings Lane terrace.

She said: "It's a monstrosity. When I first saw it I felt sick. It's very upsetting and I will not allow Kevin's name to be included on the base.

"Survivors live Hillsborough every day and I think it will set a lot of survivors back mentally.

"The feedback I've had is really upsetting. One told me that he would personally take action tear it down if he had to walk past it every day."

Margaret Aspinall, Chairwoman of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, said she and other members of the group had received abusive phone after images of the design started to circulate via e-mail.

Mrs Aspinall said: "We only saw this two weeks ago. It is a memorial we didn't even ask for.

"We already have a one at Anfield which has stood for nearly 20 years, but we had agreed in principle to underwrite it for the good of the people who survived Hillsborough.

"Since the pictures were leaked we have withdrawn from the project after grieving families were inundated with abuse from some cowardly individuals.

"It's sad that it's caused all this uproar. The people involved have done this for what they thought were the right reasons.

"I don't blame the people of Merseyside who have championed the fight for justice for the past 20 years. Unfortunately a certain element has jumped on the bandwagon to cause a great rift on Merseyside.

"There are no winners with Hillsborough, just bereaved families and survivors who have gone through hell."

Artist Tony Evans was confronted by an angry Liverpool fan after put the "maquette" of the statue on display at the Hard Day's Night Hotel in the city.

The man asked Evans whether he was at Hillsborough in 1989 and the artist said he was not.

The man, aged about 55, said: "I was there and this is too graphic. It brings back too many emotions.

"If I was a father and my son had died at the match I think it would be far too much for me to take.

Following the incident, Mr Evans told ClickLiverpool: "I was approached by representatives from Liverpool City Council to creat a memorial for the Hillsborough disaster.

"I was given images of the day as well as a jumble of ideas. People who have seen it are in favour of it.

"I don't want to get involved in the politics of it all but it is a striking image of Hillsborough which is meant to give a positive point of view. Creating a sculpture of trumpets and angels would not have been appropriate.

"It was never meant to be offensive or insensitive. It is supposed to represent Liverpool people helping each other through a terrible situation. Between 12 and 15 people who were there that day have given it their approval."

No one from Liverpool City Council was available at time of going to press.

http://www.clickliverpool.com/news....re.html

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:54 am**

Artistic interpretaion very often offend us because it tears at are most sensitive side. The proposed memorial is brutal and show a very horrific imagery of what took place at Hillsborough. Like you I was at first horrified and the I got it. Its not about you me aor sensitivity its about the brutal waste of human life that took place on that day. Its about the anger, the sacrifice, the destruction. We may never ever recapture the glory of the club if we forget those our own. The image is digusting and brutal but the scenes on that day were far worse and much more horrific. The Spion Kop was named after heros of England who give there lives for there country. While England as a nation fails to honour the butcher or innocent citizens we it and all theUK lives in shame. This memorial is a symbol of that shame that butchery and sdestruction of human life we should never let their memory leave us. I for one will be forever haunted any will always shed a tear for their loss. A enternal flame is nice but their death was brutal, horrific and I hestitae too say this but it was butchery. Butchery by a state police force who damned them to die beacuse they wore Liverpool FC scarves around the necks. This image is brutal but it shows exactly that. Lambs to slaughter. My heart, truly, truly bleeds

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:58 am**

big al wrote:Artistic interpretaion very often offend us because it tears at are most sensitive side. The proposed memorial is brutal and show a very horrific imagery of what took place at Hillsborough. Like you I was at first horrified and the I got it. Its not about you me aor sensitivity its about the brutal waste of human life that took place on that day. Its about the anger, the sacrifice, the destruction. We may never ever recapture the glory of the club if we forget those our own. The image is digusting and brutal but the scenes on that day were far worse and much more horrific. The Spion Kop was named after heros of England who give there lives for there country. While England as a nation fails to honour the butcher or innocent citizens we it and all theUK lives in shame. This memorial is a symbol of that shame that butchery and sdestruction of human life we should never let their memory leave us. I for one will be forever haunted any will always shed a tear for their loss. A enternal flame is nice but their death was brutal, horrific and I hestitae too say this but it was butchery. Butchery by a state police force who damned them to die beacuse they wore Liverpool FC scarves around the necks. This image is brutal but it shows exactly that. Lambs to slaughter. My heart, truly, truly bleeds

An thats the whole point of my distaste in this Al, We all remember mate ive sufeerd in silence like so many others who witness that horrific day, And as you say its brutal an we can never forget but imo its not fitting mate,

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:59 am**

as you know nan i was pulled out of hillsborough to, toyally agree with you what upsets me is that no one from the city council were available for comment- that is so wrong isn't it, for me i just wish whoever is involved inthese things, actulally consulted the families before anything is done.

please if i have got this wrong,i sincerly appologise, but if like you say nan, thanks for the post- the artist wasn't even their -why is he even doing this, to say it's not about politics etc- bloody right it's about 96 human beings who loved LFC an have died watching a football match.

i think he could have chosen his words better - an think he would of done if he'd spoken the families first , even if his ententions were of the highest an upmost respect which i i believe they were, he should have thought things through better.

R. I. P THE 96 JUSTICE FOR ALL

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:03 am**

Which f*cking idiot thought that that was a good design for such a poignant memorial?

Absolutely horrific. :no

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:04 am**

A new Sculptor commemorating Hillsborough has been commissioned and im sorry if i offend anyone on here but i find it very distasteful, Its horrific, in my opinion, What is wrong with the Eternal Flame, Theres quite a few Liverpool supporters an Families of those who lost there loved ones absolutly mortified by this Sculptor, An as someone who was there i am to ,

I don't understand much about art, but art normally isn't too explicit. When Picasso draw the Guernica to depict the horror of a Bombardment he wasn't as explicit.

This piece of art is impacting. Harsh.

But that impact we have it present every time we see the TV images of that day. So, for a piece of art, I wouldn't seek that impact.

For me Nanny, all it matters is that monument is liked by the families of the victims. If it is, then it's just art.

P.S. But I guess it won't last much the idea after the responses of the relatives. In these things there can't be controversy.

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:09 am**

I understand your upset, I truly do. But there are far too many people who don't. They don't get it. There is a balance between trying not to hurt the victims and not telling the truth. I'm a victim of a differnt type of butchery and it was difficult for me to see of hear other peoples opinion of what I went through. But in the end I had to accept that a story of victims is either about heroism or its about slaughter. The memorial proposal is barbaric but perhaps for those who don't get it, its a startling picture of the truth. Nanny Red, Mate, regardless of my veiw in the end its your veiw that matters so If its too upsetting for you and other victims then it should not be there.

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:22 am**

Artists (like politicians) can sometimes be so far removed from logical understanding and thinking that humanism is consequently lost in their work. They can often approach art with an 'outside of the box' perspective, for the sake of being 'alternative'.

The eternal flame would suffice

. YNWA, RIP 96

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:40 am**

made in UK wrote:Artists (like politicians) can sometimes be so far removed from logical understanding and thinking. They approach art with an 'outside of the box' perspective, for the sake of being 'alternative'.

The eternal flame would suffice . YNWA, RIP 96

Ignorant is the word your looking for. This isnt a memorial, its a constant, in your face nightmare for all those involved. Surely if you are going to get an artist to portray the events you would get someone who has an inkling of understanding. The prats involved with this monstrosity should have a good look at themself.

Idiots.

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:46 am**

Sabre I have to disagree Guernica is on of the most brutal images of terror that exists following the Spanish civil War. May times I have stood in the Prada Mesmorised by the viciousness and brutality that Picasso captured. Guernica shames the nation of spain because it shows how so many if it citizens stood by and allowed the innocent butchery of a small village by Nazi's. When Picasso first showed his painting it was consideredfar too distasteful for the Spanish people who were burying their heads in the sand and ignoring the murderous butchery of Franco. It was much later when Spain realised that the painting was the most honest and realistic depiction of what the Spanish nation had done on iits own people. I repsect all the victims of Hillsborough who dont want the proposed memorial, Thats their right, but I think the imagery created is the truth, its just too honest and too sore for the victims to take. Especially victims that this nation has betrayed and left without support and recognition that they are indeed victims. Shame lies not with the artist but with those who have left good people to suffer.

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:52 am**

I was watching question time last night and it was talking about how the S*n the sh.it rag was using that letter from G.Brown to the woman who lost her son in war as a prop to sell papers.My point to this being is sometimes lines get crossed and things move away from supporting the victims of a tragedy to almost throwing the memorys back in there faces.There is a time and place for art but I really can't see how this will help the victims of this move on or some how feel better about thier lifes.Best imo Just to support them do something respectful and try not to throw images of that day back at the people who lost the most.Its very hard to talk about this tbh it is something I don't know as much about as people who was there.

YNWA

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:58 am**

Sabre wrote:For me Nanny, all it matters is that monument is liked by the families of the victims. If it is, then it's just art.

Spot on, sabre.

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:04 am**

Sorry my missus just reminded me Guernica is'nt in the Prada Its next door in the Sofia Reina(Trifling point I Know) Dazzer Rupert Murdocks Sh*te rag is a disgusting abortion of a newspaper it is incomparable with any form of human communication artistic or otherwise. Even if we find artistic intrepretation as offensive it is still true. In the sense that the artist is giving a subjective interpretation. The Sh*T rag lies. This artistic interpreation my well offend people but please don't mention the artist in the same breath as that mostroughest of toilet rolls.

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:08 am**

big al wrote:Sorry my missus just reminded me Guernica is'nt in the Prada Its next door in the Sofia Reina(Trifling point I Know) Dazzer Rupert Murdocks Sh*te rag is a disgusting abortion of a newspaper it is incomparable with any form of human communication artistic or otherwise. Even if we find artistic intrepretation as offensive it is still true. In the sense that the artist is giving a subjective interpretation. The Sh*T rag lies. This artistic interpreation my well offend people but please don't mention the artist in the same breath as that mostroughest of toilet rolls.

No I wasn't putting then in same breath I didn't mean that I ment just about how less is more sometimes. When some people who was there that day see it , might drag up old memorys of the past they don't want to think about.I said about question time because this is what the S*n did to that poor woman. But don't get me wrong I think the artist done this with good intentions just I think little less is more when dealing with peoples hearts and souls.But thats just my view I gonna shut up now as I personaly don't think my view is worth a sh.it on this matter any ways I leave it to the people who matter the most and thats the victims.

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:41 pm**

This reminds me of the sculptures I seen of 9/11, where so called artists used the harrowing images of the jumpers set in the pose in which they were captured falling. For me, personally, and as an artist, I find that anyone who seeks to depict something as sensitive and as close to the bone as Hillsborough and 9/11 from an outsiders perspective in such a manner, is not only selfish but downright arrogant, the latter being if it's intended to be some kind of lasting memorial. Many of the most famous depictions of tragedy formed through some kind of art (like Sabre mentions the Guernica) are usually famous through some kind of accident as the artist was merely seeking some kind of personal understanding, empathy or catharsis. The work was just part of a personal body that became famous through the course of time as the artist became famous. Something like this, however, is just seeking. The artist wants attention for all the wrong reasons by chosing a tragedy like this. That's no accident and it's not art. Of course IMO.

Here's the example of the 9/11 sculpture. If the family of the poor soul made no conscent, then this is just goulish.

Liverpool FC Forum

New hillsborough sculptor

New hillsborough sculptor