Liverpool FC Forum

bigmick wrote:

heimdall wrote:Anyway you've certainly changed your tune, wasn't so long ago you were baying for Rafa's blood now you calim to have always supported him 

I think you need to re-read it mate, I think the opposite of what you are saying and I make it clear in the post.

I'm simply making the point that while I fully respect peoples views when they say he is doing a fantastic job etc etc, I personally don't think that. Maybe it's not clear I'll re-read it myself.

Lando_Griffin wrote:

heimdall wrote:

bigmick wrote:Nan I would have been made up if we'd signed Bent to be honest, yes. I've been saying for a long time that we need a viable and credible alternative to our star front man, and the Sunderland match didn't reach us anything we didn't already know about Kuyt as a striker, Voronin or N'Gog. Bent is a good player, arguably a very good one, and Sunderland stole him for 10 million quid, absolutely nicked him.

I did read on here about Turner, and yes my feeling is also that we couldn't afford him after we'd bought Johnson and Aquilani. Yes you could say that the owners could have backed Rafa more (and I'd agree with you to be honest, I've said that many times) but Rafa did get to spend 39 million quid or whatever it was on players, add ons or no add ons. I know we brought almost all of that in through the sale of Alonso, but you could equally argue that the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal came nowhere near spending the transfer money which they brought in, finishing hugely in credit over the Summer.

I'm not going to get into talking about any Portuguese fellas on here, and in all honesty I'm reluctant to get into another in depth disection of Rafa's record, his spend and all the rest. I've taken a fair bit of flak these last two weeks and unusually for me I haven't got the stomach for it today.

Ultimately of course, people make their own judgement. You look at the team, how long the manager has been here, the players that have been through, how good the squad currently is, how many trophies we have won and are likely to win in your opinion, how good we were last season and how much we have progressed to this season, how we are performing relative to other clubs given their spend and the length of time their managers have been there etc etc. You weigh all of that up, and you come to a conclusion whether or not you think the achievements match your ambition for the team.

I've always had the utmost respect for anybodies opinion that they think Rafa is the right man for the job, he is doing the best that is possible under the circumstances, nobody else could improve on what he is doing given the resources available, nobody else could get this bunch of players to achieve more than they are etc. They have obviously considered the factors which I mentioned earlier and come to that conclusion which is absolutely fine. I considered the same things and came to a different conclusion quite a long time ago now, and I can't help that. that doesn't mean though that I think we should ditch a manager in October, that would be madness.

So are you saying that all managers would play Lucas and Mashca in the center of park starving Stevie of Nando of any decent passes. I highly doubt that.
Are you also saying that all managers woudl openly criticise their senior players instead of maybe looking at themsleve sin the mirror and putting there hand up to tactical naiivity, again I doubt it.

Anyway you've certainly changed your tune, wasn't so long ago you were baying for Rafa's blood now you calim to have always supported him 

You're making yourself look silly Heimy.

Rafa is widely accepted to be THE man when it comes to tactics. Of all the things you level at him - that one is the daftest.

Well can you explain how playing Lucas and Mascha in the middle makes sense then, becuase it truly baffles me. Stevie HAS to play in the middle until we finally get to see Aquaman kick a ball. Surely that is obvious to anybody with any tactical nouse Lando. In fact when Rafa was forced to play Stevie as CM we were scoring for fun but then against Fiorentina for some bizarre reason he reverted to the tactics he had worked out pre-season and since then we've been as he's stuck to tactics which clearly don't work.

heimdall wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

heimdall wrote:

bigmick wrote:Nan I would have been made up if we'd signed Bent to be honest, yes. I've been saying for a long time that we need a viable and credible alternative to our star front man, and the Sunderland match didn't reach us anything we didn't already know about Kuyt as a striker, Voronin or N'Gog. Bent is a good player, arguably a very good one, and Sunderland stole him for 10 million quid, absolutely nicked him.

I did read on here about Turner, and yes my feeling is also that we couldn't afford him after we'd bought Johnson and Aquilani. Yes you could say that the owners could have backed Rafa more (and I'd agree with you to be honest, I've said that many times) but Rafa did get to spend 39 million quid or whatever it was on players, add ons or no add ons. I know we brought almost all of that in through the sale of Alonso, but you could equally argue that the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal came nowhere near spending the transfer money which they brought in, finishing hugely in credit over the Summer.

I'm not going to get into talking about any Portuguese fellas on here, and in all honesty I'm reluctant to get into another in depth disection of Rafa's record, his spend and all the rest. I've taken a fair bit of flak these last two weeks and unusually for me I haven't got the stomach for it today.

Ultimately of course, people make their own judgement. You look at the team, how long the manager has been here, the players that have been through, how good the squad currently is, how many trophies we have won and are likely to win in your opinion, how good we were last season and how much we have progressed to this season, how we are performing relative to other clubs given their spend and the length of time their managers have been there etc etc. You weigh all of that up, and you come to a conclusion whether or not you think the achievements match your ambition for the team.

I've always had the utmost respect for anybodies opinion that they think Rafa is the right man for the job, he is doing the best that is possible under the circumstances, nobody else could improve on what he is doing given the resources available, nobody else could get this bunch of players to achieve more than they are etc. They have obviously considered the factors which I mentioned earlier and come to that conclusion which is absolutely fine. I considered the same things and came to a different conclusion quite a long time ago now, and I can't help that. that doesn't mean though that I think we should ditch a manager in October, that would be madness.

So are you saying that all managers would play Lucas and Mashca in the center of park starving Stevie of Nando of any decent passes. I highly doubt that.
Are you also saying that all managers woudl openly criticise their senior players instead of maybe looking at themsleve sin the mirror and putting there hand up to tactical naiivity, again I doubt it.

Anyway you've certainly changed your tune, wasn't so long ago you were baying for Rafa's blood now you calim to have always supported him 

You're making yourself look silly Heimy.

Rafa is widely accepted to be THE man when it comes to tactics. Of all the things you level at him - that one is the daftest.

Well can you explain how playing Lucas and Mascha in the middle makes sense then, becuase it truly baffles me. Stevie HAS to play in the middle until we finally get to see Aquaman kick a ball. Surely that is obvious to anybody with any tactical nouse Lando. In fact when Rafa was forced to play Stevie as CM we were scoring for fun but then against Fiorentina for some bizarre reason he reverted to the tactics he had worked out pre-season and since then we've been as he's stuck to tactics which clearly don't work.

Hate to admit it but the muppet is right.

wacka wacka. 

Reg wrote:Urgent message from all those still whinging about yesterday's game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAVoQfoU0dQ

lakes10 wrote:ok so SSN and BBC are reporting that Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres are fit and will be in the team for the CL game.

i tried not to think they were rested for the last game but now i am feeling there might haver been some truth in it...............has Rafa gone back to his old ways, he knows the prem is over so he is going for the CL to save his job?.......he better bloody not be.

Rush Job wrote:Last team to win the league after 4 defeats in 9 was.............. Us, 63/64 beating the mancs by 4 points.

Even in our worst moments we are brilliant. 

Reg wrote:Urgent message from all those still whinging about yesterday's game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAVoQfoU0dQ

Madmax wrote:After todays loss what do you guys think? Is it officially over?  I think it all over as far as the title goes. We have lost too manhy games this early and are already 9 point behind and feck knows how many more points we will drop within the next month or so.

Greavesie wrote:I dont think its over, its certainly getting there tho.

Christ even Zamora scored, Zamora, surely thats some indication of how bad its been. Surely Zamora scoring will make them see how bad they've been. You cant get a bigger wake up call than Zamora, if that doesnt do it, nothing will