Page 5 of 5
Posted:
Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:39 amby stmichael
Quite simply because we don't throw enough men forward when we are chasing a goal. We need a goal against Hull and Rafa doesn't bring Keane on. United need one away at Bolton and Stoke and finish up with SIX attackers on the pitch.
Posted:
Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:10 pmby stmichael
Just to add to this debate, it is very clear to see that one of our problems comes from players being tethered to a spot on the pitch and given a radius of around 6 foot to do their work. They don't have enough freedom to just go out and express themselves.
Posted:
Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:15 pmby andy_g
stmichael wrote:Just to add to this debate, it is very clear to see that one of our problems comes from players being tethered to a spot on the pitch and given a radius of around 6 foot to do their work. They don't have enough freedom to just go out and express themselves.
i don't agree with that at all. while benitez certainly prefers his teams to be 'machine like', 'organised' and 'efficient' it also seems clear that he likes players who are prepared to work hard all over the pitch.
kuyt is the obvious and cliched example but look at a lot of other players, and look at those graphs and charts with dots and arrows all over the place. they'll tell you that the players cover a hell of a lot of ground when necessary.
i'll concede though, that a lot of this moving around is when there is defensive work to be done. all too often when we are attacking we are way too static and predictable.
Posted:
Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:37 pmby stmichael
andy_g wrote:i'll concede though, that a lot of this moving around is when there is defensive work to be done. all too often when we are attacking we are way too static and predictable.
I'll ask you this, on Sunday count how many players are in the box when our attack finishes, I can tell you now it's 2 at most.
Bring back pass and move, give the lads in the final third some freedom, and go out to win the match. Gerrard has enough licence to go wherever he wants. When was the last time you saw Riera or Kuyt popping up on the other side of the pitch?
Posted:
Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:55 pmby Owzat
Speed of passing can be a problem, if players aren't good at quick passing and moving then you simply end up losing the ball. Slow, measured passing is all well and good but doesn't cause defences many problems. Having pacey players is only any good if they beat the offside trap or can dribble and beat their man
Too true about a lack of bodies in the box, even if we play two up front you don't see players like Mascherano and Alonso get forward so assuming it isn't them crossing/playing it into the box, the most it is likely to be is 3/4* from - Gerrard, Keane, Torres, Riera, Kuyt
*assuming one of the named is crossing, all are on the pitch and up in the attack. How do we expect to drag defenders away and make space if there's noone to drag them? The two that SM speaks of getting in the box will be outnumbered and if man-marked then the cross is likely to be cut out by a defender by the law of averages. We need at least three in the box and another player (Alonso) on the edge to pick up the ball when it breaks loose. If Riera's crossing then there should be Kuyt, Gerrard and the striker(s) getting in the box, if Kuyt's crossing *ahem* 
then Riera should be in the box in his stead.
I'm not sure aerial crosses are the best option for us, except set pieces with Sami up, as we don't have that many players good in the air. We should be trying through balls, low crosses and quick interpassing to create chances. I'd have a solid session once a week playing quick passes and 1-2s - if not two a week. Get the players reactions sharp, might help getting on crosses and tucking them away. Our players shouldn't need two touches, that is something I see too often in the England side which is why they will never win anything. Move the ball quickly, about the only thing worthwhile in the whole "Goal" film was when the coach kicked the ball towards goal, the player chased it and the lesson was the ball moves faster than anyone can run so PASS it. The quicker the ball moves, the harder it is to defend against. Slow pointless possession (passing) is for when we're well in front, when we need to score the ball needs to move quicker. That said, some of our passing can be way too quick or casual, something else that dedicated passing sessions should reduce.
Posted:
Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:36 pmby andy_g
stmichael wrote:andy_g wrote:i'll concede though, that a lot of this moving around is when there is defensive work to be done. all too often when we are attacking we are way too static and predictable.
I'll ask you this, on Sunday count how many players are in the box when our attack finishes, I can tell you now it's 2 at most.
Bring back pass and move, give the lads in the final third some freedom, and go out to win the match. Gerrard has enough licence to go wherever he wants. When was the last time you saw Riera or Kuyt popping up on the other side of the pitch?
i saw reira on the right a few times on monday night.
Posted:
Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:22 amby LegBarnes
Why do we fail to break 10 man ?
Because skrtel don't play every game he is good at breaking things.
Posted:
Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:20 pmby stmichael
It's our style that needs to improve to break stubborn defences down. We have to increase the tempo, desperately, as well as look for our full-backs when they overlap to continue as far as the byline and cut inside behind defences when possible. We don't stretch teams enough and too often are laboured such that they reorganise. I think we should try to play less narrow also when teams drop deep, 'cause it's far too easy to defend against if you're organised - Riera and whoever's on the right needs to double up with our full-backs and murder the opposition's full-backs, getting beyond them repeatidly and getting behind the defence.
In relation to the top teams around europe we create no where near enough chances...recent matches and previous seasons and your own eyes should be able to see that.
Posted:
Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:22 pmby GYBS
cause we miss a creative tricky player to unlock defences with subtle passes .
Posted:
Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:35 pmby stmichael
GYBS wrote:cause we miss a creative tricky player to unlock defences with subtle passes .
I agree with that but regardless of personnel I would prefer to see less caution shown. United (as much as we dislike them) epitomise what we should be doing. Instead of crying into his beer about dodgy refs, Benitez shouldn't be playing out cagey 0-0 draws with the likes of Fulham and Stoke, but going for the jugular. He who dares and all that.
An obvious plus point to Rafa's style is, it does well in the CL. But, if you saw the mancs defend like f#ck away at Barca last year in the CL semis, you would see Whiskey nose has seemingly finally & slowly grasped the fact sometimes gung-ho attacking football isnt always the best way in European football.
Similarly, Rafa needs the insight to realise perhaps a more United-esque, full on attacking approach is how you win domestic games like the afore-mentioned, i.e. the minnows of the league. You pummel them until they eventually fall over. And if you get one goal, you sure as hell don't sit on it.
Posted:
Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:37 pmby GYBS
yeah will agree that rafa does need to go for it a bit more - should of kept on yossi the other night and brought off lucas for keane .