Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:59 pmi still think class is permanent and form is temporary. Alonso will come good again, but agree with the Lucas opinon....in fact i think he and Babel have been huge disapointments.
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LUCAS LEIVA - Official Thread
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Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:59 pmPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:40 pmWe will really need to see him in a 442 and see how he does to find out what he's made of.
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:58 pmEven if Alonso has had a dip in form (and I don't think his decline is anywhere near as significant as some make out) he still offers more than Lucas does at the moment. Yes, opponents have learned to close Xabi down quickly but he still completes most of his passes and does his defensive duties well. He could get forward more when paired with Masch but otherwise I never worry with Xabi on the park. Lucas, on the other hand, is often a bit of a concern because he does seem easy to muscle off the ball. That said, he linked well with Gerrard for the first goal and perhaps needs more time further up the park before we truly see what he excels at. On this evidence, though, I would be loath to sell Alonso and keep Lucas.
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:04 pmmuch too early to tell... in the arsenal game, lucas did better than alonso... when he came on for alonso, the team all of a sudden had less pressure...
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:47 pmdepends on how much money Rafa (or whoever our manager is) gets in the summer, how much is being offered for Alonso, and why type of players are available to buy with that kind of money. CM of Gerrard, Mascherano, Lucas, Plessis, Guthrie, Spearing, and Ajdarevic.
And Lucas has showed the kind of skill he has in his locker against havant & waterlooville, I know that isn't saying much but that shot would have gone in against 95% of the keepers in the world. I think he needs another season to build confidence and get more chances to show off his quality. Certainly having Xabi around next year would be safer than not having him around, but if it comes down to having Xabi or a player of equal value that plays out wide, I would say that is an area of bigger need.
And Lucas has showed the kind of skill he has in his locker against havant & waterlooville, I know that isn't saying much but that shot would have gone in against 95% of the keepers in the world. I think he needs another season to build confidence and get more chances to show off his quality. Certainly having Xabi around next year would be safer than not having him around, but if it comes down to having Xabi or a player of equal value that plays out wide, I would say that is an area of bigger need.
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:57 pmBased on Lucas and Alonso performances this year I think Lucas is the better player. Lucas is also younger and we would get more money for Alonso. Alonso probably is on a much higher salary also.
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:34 amKukilon wrote:Based on Lucas and Alonso performances this year I think Lucas is the better player. Lucas is also younger and we would get more money for Alonso. Alonso probably is on a much higher salary also.
What utter rubbish!!!
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:40 amPlayed really well today, probably our best player behind Stevie. Still a little lightweight though but hopefully thatll be sorted out. World class potential? Maybe , maybe not. Time will tell.
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:49 amFo Dne wrote:Kukilon wrote:Based on Lucas and Alonso performances this year I think Lucas is the better player. Lucas is also younger and we would get more money for Alonso. Alonso probably is on a much higher salary also.
What utter rubbish!!!
So in which game this season was Alonso any good? I'm not saying he is
but the magic from his first two seasons are long gone.Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:51 amAlonso needs alot of time on the ball to play to his potential, and in this league he simply isnt going to get that time. He would be fantastic to have in the SQUAD, but hes too good to be a squad player, yet dosent play well enough to be a regular starter. Rock and a hard place.
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:55 amThingy wrote:Alonso needs alot of time on the ball to play to his potential, and in this league he simply isnt going to get that time. He would be fantastic to have in the SQUAD, but hes too good to be a squad player, yet dosent play well enough to be a regular starter. Rock and a hard place.
Exactly I doubt that Alonso would stand being second choice. Selling Alonso is not something that is ideal but I think it would be best for the club in the long run.
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:59 amThingy wrote:Alonso needs alot of time on the ball to play to his potential, and in this league he simply isnt going to get that time. He would be fantastic to have in the SQUAD, but hes too good to be a squad player, yet dosent play well enough to be a regular starter. Rock and a hard place.
This gets said a lot on here, mate, so I'm not picking on you but, honestly, I don't see it. Alonso gets pressured but still completes most of his passes. Often, he plays it simple and positions himself for the return ball. When he does go long, it frequently comes off. Plus, he defends well and does a lot of unsung work. True, he isn't hitting the 'hollywood' balls with the frequency we saw in his first season but I think he's playing a more disciplined role for the team--particularly when partnered with Lucas. The biggest criticism is that he doesn't get forward far enough on occasion when partnered with Mascherano. Is that his natural inclination, however, or Rafa's instructions? In any event, is he hurting the team or quietly helping it tick? Given the run we're on using this 4-2-3-1 system--a system that gets him into the starting 11 along with Stevie and Masch--it's hard to argue that he's been a liability. He provides the platform for others, most notably Stevie, to do what they do best. Good team player is our Xabi.
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:12 amSee your point also Bob, maybe hes the one who keeps the team ticking over, maybe I dont see how well he actually plays. As I said id like him to stay but on his form for me he maybe shouldnt be a regular starter, but hes way too good a player to be on the bench. This formation may not suit him. Cos if were 442, hes in the middle with Stevie, so his work would get noticed more. 4231 however theres basically 2 players doing the job he does in 442, so his work could somewhat go unoticed.
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:13 amAlonso has been poor of late. He returned after his injury and bedded straight into this new system and for those first two or three games after his injury, he looked like he was returning to some sort of form, but since he's been sliding. I'm not talking about "hollywood" passes, I mean simple basic skills. He's playing simple passes asstray, he's not creating much and he's even seemed to lose awareness of other players around him. He seems to dwell on the ball alot more than is allowed in this league and I think he's been helped by Mascherano more than anybody else. Mascherano has covered for Alonso and Lucas (who the topic is about) and made up for their mistakes.
Back to Lucas, I think he's to fragile to play as a holding midfielder in the 4-2-3-1 system. He seems more confident going forward. He's not a tackling midfielder like Mascherano and isn't a 40 yard passer like Alonso. He's one of these players who will carry the can when things are going badly, and not really be seen when things are going well. I still think he's a decent player, but he with the reputation he brought with him and the promise in the early performances, recently he's just dipped, like alot of the team. Give him a few years, after all not everyone can take to the premiership like a duck to water, so give him a few years and then see where we are with him. Obvious problem there is, will he cost us the league? Maybe so, but it's up to Benitez to see if Lucas has a future in this league. Make him a bit stronger, and get him to learn a role in the side i.e. tackling midifleder or versitle midfielder (play awhere across the middle) and we should be ok. I think right now, he just seems a bit lost as to what his job in the side really is.
Back to Lucas, I think he's to fragile to play as a holding midfielder in the 4-2-3-1 system. He seems more confident going forward. He's not a tackling midfielder like Mascherano and isn't a 40 yard passer like Alonso. He's one of these players who will carry the can when things are going badly, and not really be seen when things are going well. I still think he's a decent player, but he with the reputation he brought with him and the promise in the early performances, recently he's just dipped, like alot of the team. Give him a few years, after all not everyone can take to the premiership like a duck to water, so give him a few years and then see where we are with him. Obvious problem there is, will he cost us the league? Maybe so, but it's up to Benitez to see if Lucas has a future in this league. Make him a bit stronger, and get him to learn a role in the side i.e. tackling midifleder or versitle midfielder (play awhere across the middle) and we should be ok. I think right now, he just seems a bit lost as to what his job in the side really is.
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:25 amThingy wrote:See your point also Bob, maybe hes the one who keeps the team ticking over, maybe I dont see how well he actually plays. As I said id like him to stay but on his form for me he maybe shouldnt be a regular starter, but hes way too good a player to be on the bench. This formation may not suit him. Cos if were 442, hes in the middle with Stevie, so his work would get noticed more. 4231 however theres basically 2 players doing the job he does in 442, so his work could somewhat go unoticed.
But if the team is ticking (and it is) why is it so important that his work, in particular, gets noticed? He just quietly goes about his job and helps the team do what it needs to do defensively and offensively. He's not missing gilt-edged chances or giving up tons of dangerous free kicks or getting booked left, right and centre...he's just doing his work quietly and professionally. Every team needs a player or two like that and we're fortunate to have Alonso.