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Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:39 pmby Lando_Griffin
Ciggy wrote:Belgium v Finland, A, 19:45 Sami Hyypia.
Croatia v Israel, E, 19:15 Yossi Benayoun.
Denmark v Spain, F, 19:00 Torres, Reina.
England v Estonia, E, 15:00 Steven Gerrard, Peter Crouch.
Rep of Ireland v Germany, D, 19:45 Steve Finnan.
Romania v Holland, G, 18:15 Babbel.
Scotland v Ukraine, B, 15:00 Voronin.
Bosnia-Herzegovina v Norway, C, 19:30 Riise.
Argentina V Chille 21.40 Mascherano.
And next wednesday Argentina V Venezula at 1.40 a.m 
That's absolutely fecking shocking.
No Mascher for the derby, then. 
Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:41 pmby Sabre
Bloody rotation 
this does prove our players are more close to be 100% of their strenght that their opposition counterparts, but FFS, it seems that the other clubs rotate their players in the English games!
Seriously, some of the excuses of other clubs seem too weak.
When I've talked to a couple of ex professional players, they always told me that most of the players play with some amount of pain through out the season, but for what I can read here it seems that the other clubs protect their players more when it comes to international games. But if that's the case we can do much about it, the F.A (I think) should.
Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:46 pmby Ciggy
Lando_Griffin wrote:And next wednesday Argentina V Venezula at 1.40 a.m
That's absolutely fecking shocking.
No Mascher for the derby, then.
The argentina games are for the WC qualifiers so I imagine thay are going to be played in South America if its Chille and Venezula, so I can see Mascherano having a bit of jet lag, ecspecially that that game early hours wednesday morning.
FFS his body clock will be up the wall for a week.
Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:51 pmby Lando_Griffin
Ciggy wrote:Lando_Griffin wrote:And next wednesday Argentina V Venezula at 1.40 a.m
That's absolutely fecking shocking.
No Mascher for the derby, then.
The argentina games are for the WC qualifiers so I imagine thay are going to be played in South America if its Chille and Venezula, so I can see Mascherano having a bit of jet lag, ecspecially that that game early hours wednesday morning.
FFS his body clock will be up the wall for a week.
It's ridiculous that in today's game, players are traipsing around the globe, playing games at such stupid times.
Surely the jet lag will affect him for the Argentina games, as well as for us?
The dumbasses at FIFA need to give their heads a shake.
Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:33 pmby LFC2007
Ciggy wrote:Lando_Griffin wrote:And next wednesday Argentina V Venezula at 1.40 a.m
That's absolutely fecking shocking.
No Mascher for the derby, then.
The argentina games are for the WC qualifiers so I imagine thay are going to be played in South America if its Chille and Venezula, so I can see Mascherano having a bit of jet lag, ecspecially that that game early hours wednesday morning.
FFS his body clock will be up the wall for a week.
25 out of the 47 players in the Argentina and Chilean squads combined are based in Europe. 53% of the total.
The rest play in South America, so it's pretty even. Of those who will actually start the match, probably 100% of the Argentinian starting line up will be based in Europe, and probably 4 players (36%) in Chile's starting line up will be based in Europe.
So basically 68% of those playing in the match will be based in Europe, and will have to travel significant distances.
From this perspective you wonder why they don't play the qualifiers in Europe, however, what I can accept is that fans of Argentina and Chile want to see their team play, so it has to be played in South America.
The time of kick off is a p!ss take however.
Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:18 pmby gato_busta
LFC2007 wrote:Ciggy wrote:Lando_Griffin wrote:And next wednesday Argentina V Venezula at 1.40 a.m
That's absolutely fecking shocking.
No Mascher for the derby, then.
The argentina games are for the WC qualifiers so I imagine thay are going to be played in South America if its Chille and Venezula, so I can see Mascherano having a bit of jet lag, ecspecially that that game early hours wednesday morning.
FFS his body clock will be up the wall for a week.
25 out of the 47 players in the Argentina and Chilean squads combined are based in Europe. 53% of the total.
The rest play in South America, so it's pretty even. Of those who will actually start the match, probably 100% of the Argentinian starting line up will be based in Europe, and probably 4 players (36%) in Chile's starting line up will be based in Europe.
So basically 68% of those playing in the match will be based in Europe, and will have to travel significant distances.
From this perspective you wonder why they don't play the qualifiers in Europe, however, what I can accept is that fans of Argentina and Chile want to see their team play, so it has to be played in South America.
The time of kick off is a p!ss take however.
Thats like saying "There's more French than English players in Arsenal, they should play their games in France". Even if that is not the case anymore, In South America we have leagues that are comparable to second or even third division european leagues. The only chance we have to see world class players play are when the national team plays. Also, how could you play home games away from home? There would be no pressure from the crowd and the stadiums would be filled with tourists* (the only thing worse than bandwagon fans IMO)
Anyway, I think Mascherano will be available. The Chile game might be tough since they have Bielsa as their coach right now, even if they have 
players. Venezuela is one of the worst national teams in South America at the moment so I wouldn't be surprised if he did not start that game or even play it at all. Also, they play Venezuela on Tuesday so he will have enough rest and enough time to get over the jet lag.
*I know it doesn't sound right but I mean people from other countries that know nothing about the team
Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:44 pmby LFC2007
gato_busta wrote:LFC2007 wrote:Ciggy wrote:Lando_Griffin wrote:And next wednesday Argentina V Venezula at 1.40 a.m
That's absolutely fecking shocking.
No Mascher for the derby, then.
The argentina games are for the WC qualifiers so I imagine thay are going to be played in South America if its Chille and Venezula, so I can see Mascherano having a bit of jet lag, ecspecially that that game early hours wednesday morning.
FFS his body clock will be up the wall for a week.
25 out of the 47 players in the Argentina and Chilean squads combined are based in Europe. 53% of the total.
The rest play in South America, so it's pretty even. Of those who will actually start the match, probably 100% of the Argentinian starting line up will be based in Europe, and probably 4 players (36%) in Chile's starting line up will be based in Europe.
So basically 68% of those playing in the match will be based in Europe, and will have to travel significant distances.
From this perspective you wonder why they don't play the qualifiers in Europe, however, what I can accept is that fans of Argentina and Chile want to see their team play, so
it has to be played in South America.The time of kick off is a p!ss take however.
Thats like saying "There's more French than English players in Arsenal, they should play their games in France". Even if that is not the case anymore, In South America we have leagues that are comparable to second or even third division european leagues. The only chance we have to see world class players play are when the national team plays. Also, how could you play home games away from home? There would be no pressure from the crowd and the stadiums would be filled with tourists (the only thing worse than bandwagon fans IMO)
Anyway, I think Mascherano will be available. The Chile game might be tough since they have Bielsa as their coach right now, even if they have players. Venezuela is one of the worst national teams in South America at the moment so I wouldn't be surprised if he did not start that game or even play it at all. Also, they play Venezuela on Tuesday so he will have enough rest and enough time to get over the jet lag.
I've highlighted the parts where you are missing the point.
Your comparison with Arsenal misses the point as the question is about location, travelling and rest time. The Arsenal squad are not based in France, they are based in England and play in an English league. There is no need for them to play all of their games in France, I really don't see any relevance to this analogy.
My point is relevant, especially as some nations whose squads are predominantly based in European leagues do schedule matches to be played in Europe, as it minimses travel time. Generally speaking, this only happens for friendlies though and that's why I made the point that the Argentina vs Chile match - a qualifier - should be played in South America.
Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:05 pmby gato_busta
Now why would that be fair, having in mind that coaches in South America use friendlies mostly for testing their subs which are IN THEIR MOST PART from their own national league? For example, in Peru's starting 11 there is only one player that plays in Peru and that is the keeper. Only 2 friendlies had that starting 11 and they were the last 2 games before the qualifiers. All other firendly games were used to test the 2nd team, made of players from our league. How would it be fair to have our 2nd team go to Europe to play?
Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:26 pmby LFC2007
gato_busta wrote:Now why would that be fair, having in mind that coaches in South America use friendlies mostly for testing their subs which are IN THEIR MOST PART from their own national league? For example, in Peru's starting 11 there is only one player that plays in Peru and that is the keeper. Only 2 friendlies had that starting 11 and they were the last 2 games before the qualifiers. All other firendly games were used to test the 2nd team, made of players from our league. How would it be fair to have our 2nd team go to Europe to play?
It's simply one example, and doesn't tell the whole story. Anyway, it's not a question of who plays in Peru, it's a question of who plays in South America.
Many national sides, including some renowned South American sides hold friendlies in Europe, and they field relatively strong sides. I guess this is partly due to commercial reasons, for example there are many Brazilians living in London - hence, the starting line up vs England at Wembley a few months ago was relatively strong and consisted of mainly, if not entirely continental based players.
Peru don't have the same command as Argentina or Brazil in Europe, and if Peru mainly use friendlies as an exercise to field a second string that is predominantly based in South America then it makes no sense to do so. As it happens, a number of national teams, many from Africa, some from South America play friendlies in Europe - that is where the mainstay of their team is based - and it minimises travelling time. However, some national sides vary it. There are occasions unfortunately where key players based in Europe will be called out to play in a friendly, or at least to be in the squad for a friendly in South America. This is farcical IMO, it does no good to the players, and in the long term no good to the national team.
Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:15 pmby gato_busta
The problem is you are generalizing teams in South America to basicaly Brazil and Argentina. As for why some friendlies are played in Europe it's because they are played against European teams which rarely, if ever, come to South America. For example, why would Argentina play Paraguay in France? Why would Peru play Brazil in England? We would'nt even be able to enjoy these games since they would probably be aired early in the morning. To do so would be to deprive people of watching their national team, not to mention to deprive players of visiting their homes.
At the end of the day, it really depends on each player if they want to play for their national team. Most players want to play in their countries, front of their fans and family. At least thats what I think, especially if players don't complain about playing friendlies at home.
Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:35 pmby gato_busta
Sorry for the double post but just to add, in every league in South America every team is only allowed to field 3 foreign players at a time. This forces teams to have more "home grown talent" in the team. Since our teams can't pay as much as teams in Europe, all our good players leave to earn more making our leagues weaker, causing less people to go to stadiums and finally making it even harder to keep even average players who end up going to weaker european leagues. The problem is not that we play our friendlies in South America, the problem is that European teams field too many foreigners. Liverpool's only real problem is Mascherano right now but what about a team like Inter? Nobody told them to have a team composed almost in full of South American players. If international breaks are going to be a problem for players, make them quit their national team or simply don't get foreign players.
As I said before, playing games in Europe would deprive us of something we need, and that is good football.
Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:45 pmby nesta
Torres just got injured, all over the news here in Denmark (since we meet Spain tomorrow!)
Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:48 pmby nesta
Check out http://www.marca.com/ for confirmation
Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:21 pmby dward
Posted:
Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:22 pmby Ola Mr Benitez
Fernando Torres will miss the Merseyside derby after suffering a leg injury while training with Spain.
The Liverpool striker is facing at least 10 days on the sidelines after rupturing a muscle in his right leg during a training session on Friday ahead of the Euro 2008 qualifier against Denmark.
That means the 23-year-old is now out of the eagerly-anticipated Premier League derby against Everton at Goodison Park on 20th October.
News of the injury will be come as a major blow to Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez following Torres' impressive start to the season.
Spain coach Luis Aragones, meanwhile, is now likely to call on Espanyol's Raul Tamudo against Denmark.
