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New post (slate me if you like) - The cups
Posted:
Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:30 amby DAV
I have been very critical of managers for years for playing under strength teams in cup competitions. I slated Neil Warnock for the side he put out against Swansea on Saturday. The whole identity of football is being lost in a world of money players and managers with big ego's with no respect for the English game. I wonder where football will be in 20 years time. I'm 33 and have been lucky enough to be at some great games over the years seeing us win just about everything. I speak to kids today and all they know is the premiership, as if football didn't exist before this. I read posts, like Liverpool's priority this season is getting 3rd in League. Well as a supporter, domestic cup competitions are of great importance. It's a time when a team gives something back to its supporters. There is no day in the football calendar like the FA CUP final if you are involved. The travelling down, the whole BUZZ of the day, and the atmosphere. It's a day every supporter remembers for the rest of his/her life. The League cup, not a great competition but never the less, it’s a trophy, the least important. But never the less its something the supporters love if their in the final. Again it’s the team and manager giving something back to the fans.
So I'm not saying sack RB, but what I am saying is someone get him a DVD of the entire history of LIVERPOOL FC. So he can see what passion their was in great cup ties of the past, and what it means to the supporters. The FA CUP is the oldest most prestigious trophy in the world, lets not make the kids of today forget that.
God knows what Shankly would make of Liverpool's priority being coming 3rd in Premiership.
God know's what greats of the past would make of this Christmas break nonsense. (The Christmas period is again something the fans love, just look at attendances over the years in this period through out the leagues)
I'm not even going to discuss this rubbish about B teams playing in the championship.
So my answer is this to foreign managers (including RB), learn the history, respect the supports for paying good money to turn up to the games, don't de-value cup competitions because the financial rewards are not so good. (it matters to us, the supporters)
Posted:
Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:56 amby SouthCoastShankly
No one can attack Rafa for playing a weakened side against Arsenal. When you have a squad to think about there has to be a risk taken at some point in the season. Arsene Wenger played a weakened side so why shouldn't we?? I for one can't argue that the risk is taken in the worse cup competition we'll play in.
What would you have Rafa do, play the same squad of 16 every week in every competition!? Don't be an idiot.
That would be clever wouldn't it, lets injure all our best players for the sake of a fan who wants to experience the "BUZZ" of a cup.
Wake up mate. Football has changed whether you like it or not, gone are the days of treating domestic cups with value over the league. For one the level of fitness required to play at the top level is miles higher than in the 70/80's, players physically cannot play every game without risking burnout.
The key to our winning games like these in the cup is to improve our reserve side. Like I have said in other threads - our reserve squad is weaker than the other "big 3" by a considerable margin. In my opinion we have got rid of side decent talent to lower league for no reason. What every happen to our kids who got us to the Carling cup final a couple of years back??
Posted:
Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:08 amby DAV
thanks for calling me idiot south coast shankly
, no wonder so many good people don't post on here anymore.I musy say with a name like south coast SHANKLY. I find you comments odd to say the least. You use his name but don't agree with the way he ran the club.
Without supporters their would be no football at the level it is at today.
People should remeber that.
Posted:
Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:17 amby babu
you should realise that there are about 4 existing threads with similar discussion, why couldn't this post go there?
Posted:
Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:22 amby DAV
it can
could a moderator cut move it or somthing please
sorry for this, i didn't want to put it in the bunch of 
post. as i never even read it because i didn't feel it worth reading.
Posted:
Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:35 amby Sabre
Well
I think DAV writes his criticism in a sensible way
So I'm not saying sack RB, but what I am saying is someone get him a DVD of the entire history of LIVERPOOL FC. So he can see what passion their was in great cup ties of the past, and what it means to the supporters. The FA CUP is the oldest most prestigious trophy in the world, lets not make the kids of today forget that.
If Arsenal lost their forums would be moaning aswell, but now they are probably talking about how promising and good idea was to put Jeremie Aliadiere in the squad. Without risk, there's no glory.
I think that a mistake of Rafa doesn't mean he doesn't give a flying fúck for the Carling Cup. He was probably confident on their men and wanted them to give a try at the first team. He got it wrong but I'm sure he cares.
The amount of games played in Christmas, plus the coming back of the European competition very soon, makes adviceable putting into rest some of the main players.
Football is like this, results is what's important. If we won yesterday he'd be a genius, but we didn't. A mistake yes, but not that he doesn't care.
Posted:
Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:38 amby Anfield rapper
DAV wrote:I have been very critical of managers for years for playing under strength teams in cup competitions. I slated Neil Warnock for the side he put out against Swansea on Saturday. The whole identity of football is being lost in a world of money players and managers with big ego's with no respect for the English game. I wonder where football will be in 20 years time. I'm 33 and have been lucky enough to be at some great games over the years seeing us win just about everything. I speak to kids today and all they know is the premiership, as if football didn't exist before this. I read posts, like Liverpool's priority this season is getting 3rd in League. Well as a supporter, domestic cup competitions are of great importance. It's a time when a team gives something back to its supporters. There is no day in the football calendar like the FA CUP final if you are involved. The travelling down, the whole BUZZ of the day, and the atmosphere. It's a day every supporter remembers for the rest of his/her life. The League cup, not a great competition but never the less, it’s a trophy, the least important. But never the less its something the supporters love if their in the final. Again it’s the team and manager giving something back to the fans.
So I'm not saying sack RB, but what I am saying is someone get him a DVD of the entire history of LIVERPOOL FC. So he can see what passion their was in great cup ties of the past, and what it means to the supporters. The FA CUP is the oldest most prestigious trophy in the world, lets not make the kids of today forget that.
God knows what Shankly would make of Liverpool's priority being coming 3rd in Premiership.
God know's what greats of the past would make of this Christmas break nonsense. (The Christmas period is again something the fans love, just look at attendances over the years in this period through out the leagues)
I'm not even going to discuss this rubbish about B teams playing in the championship.
So my answer is this to foreign managers (including RB), learn the history, respect the supports for paying good money to turn up to the games, don't de-value cup competitions because the financial rewards are not so good. (it matters to us, the supporters)
I agree with part of what you are saying but i just think the Champions league has taken over now from the FA cup. Don't get me wrong i still rate the FA cup but in the 80's it was a much more important cup than it is now. I attacked Rafa for not treating the FA cup with more importance and playing Dudek and not bringing Bellamy on (he couldn't have been that injured, he was running the line for the whole second half). Nobody however can tell me that the Carling Cup is anything more than a distraction, and at some point you have to draw the line and start using understrength teams. I'm afraid that is what has happened over the past 10-15 years, european football has become much more important and the domestic trophies have suffered.
Ok no Liverpool team should be losing 6-3 at home to anybody, and thats the only issue in my mind is that we don't have enough depth in the squad. At least we know one thing after the last couple of games, and that is we cannot rely on Dudek anymore as our 2nd goal keeper. Now before ayone starts telling me i'm forgetting Istanbul, i'm not. He had a great game in Istanbul but he was also very cappable of having very poor games that season. At least it hasn't cost us any points (yet).
Posted:
Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:52 amby DAV
if teams don't want to take these competitions seriously then should'nt they reduce the price of tickets to reserve game prices and inform the supporters well in advance.
Posted:
Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:14 amby Kopjon
DAV wrote:if teams don't want to take these competitions seriously then should'nt they reduce the price of tickets to reserve game prices and inform the supporters well in advance.
Spot on.
Arsenal have an excellent reserve side, something i think we can only dream of. I also agree with an earlier comment, in that we have had some superb young talent that have now departed to be replaced by the 'New Zidane' and co, who have also now departed. I'm struggling to think of one good youth player that has come in from abroad and fullfilled his promising talent, so why are we relying on Argentines, french and spanish youngsters that continually fail to make the grade?
Posted:
Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:22 amby puroresu
Kopjon wrote:DAV wrote:if teams don't want to take these competitions seriously then should'nt they reduce the price of tickets to reserve game prices and inform the supporters well in advance.
Spot on.
Arsenal have an excellent reserve side, something i think we can only dream of. I also agree with an earlier comment, in that we have had some superb young talent that have now departed to be replaced by the 'New Zidane' and co, who have also now departed. I'm struggling to think of one good youth player that has come in from abroad and fullfilled his promising talent, so why are we relying on Argentines, french and spanish youngsters that continually fail to make the grade?
Well thats just bad scouting in picking the wrong players. I am firm beliver that if the homegrown kids are good enough they will get through. Just things have dried up. Not just at Liverpool either.
Posted:
Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:23 amby MASTER
Our youth setup has been poor for the last 10 years if you properly think about it only 3 from OUR youth team have played more than 25 games in the first team (Owen, Gerrard and Carragher and 2 of those have been argued to be world class in the last 5 years (Gerrard and Owen).
Posted:
Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:31 amby SouthCoastShankly
supersub wrote:I totally agree with Dav; The opening post is spot on and the use of "Shankly" in your user name and yet reply like that is a contradiction to the manner the great man played the game.
I am sick and tired of hearing this
spin about physical levels injuring players,burnout blah
blahcrap
.
Not at all.
Bill Shankly created a side and way of playing that dominated the footballing environment in which he played.
I can admire what he did and respect him for what he did for the club but that doesn't mean that by endorsing him as a manager in my username I think we should imitate his style.
Quite frankly whether you believe burnout is an shit excuse or not its reality. Most players playing in Shankly's days would never be able to compete over a season, playing the amount of games we now play, like our boys do. The game nowadays is more about stamina over the season and managing your squad to be successful over long periods of time. The sooner fans start to realise this the quicker you can start seeing the real issues with defeats like last nights.
The past is the past and its a glorious one. I'm fed up with fans and pundits alike comparing this team to the great Liverpool teams of the past.
Its a different team and different game creating a different history.
Posted:
Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:41 amby Kopjon
I'm not sure if I’m correct in thinking this, but it seems since the Club has brought in foreign managers & coaches the youth development system has gone down hill? Would you agree?
(I know Gerrard came in with Houlier before anyone says anything!)
Posted:
Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:49 amby Ace Ventura
SouthCoastShankly wrote:supersub wrote:I totally agree with Dav; The opening post is spot on and the use of "Shankly" in your user name and yet reply like that is a contradiction to the manner the great man played the game.
I am sick and tired of hearing this
spin about physical levels injuring players,burnout blah
blahcrap
.
Not at all.
Bill Shankly created a side and way of playing that dominated the footballing environment in which he played.
I can admire what he did and respect him for what he did for the club but that doesn't mean that by endorsing him as a manager in my username I think we should imitate his style.
Quite frankly whether you believe burnout is an shit excuse or not its reality. Most players playing in Shankly's days would never be able to compete over a season, playing the amount of games we now play, like our boys do. The game nowadays is more about stamina over the season and managing your squad to be successful over long periods of time. The sooner fans start to realise this the quicker you can start seeing the real issues with defeats like last nights.
The past is the past and its a glorious one. I'm fed up with fans and pundits alike comparing this team to the great Liverpool teams of the past.
Its a different team and different game creating a different history.
It is a differnt type of game now and does have more pace but not THAT much different, and players of yesteryear would easily be able to play in the premiership if they were about now.
You my friend are guilty of listening to the media and our manager too much imo.
Manchester United dont rotate players like we do, and they are doing just fine.
If rafa was that worried about the recovery time in between last nights game and Watford on Saturday...why did he play our most influential player the full 90 minutes ?
Nearly every player in our squad could play every game no problem, yeah they would be tired, but the confidence team spirit and general morale would be better.