Liverpool FC Forum

Big Niall wrote:A good manager is one who leaves the club better than he joined it.

Dalglish took over the best team in England and left a team on the slide. Not good.

Souness - nuff said

Evans - played good football, top 4 every year, if only he wasn't so soft we could have been champtions, left us better though so he was good.

GH - had the discipline Evans lacked but left a team on a par with Evans (league worse, second rate trophies better) but spent a fortune so not a good manager.

Nobody can argue with this analysis!!!!

SouthCoastShankly wrote:

stu_the_red wrote:As i've said. Proven means nothing. Its got all to do with anything at all. Proven doesn't garentee success.

Morientes is "proven" all over Europe, whats he done?
Gerrard and Carragher weren't proven when they first came into the side.

Neither was Owen or Fowler. Bergkamp, Henry, Hyypia etc.

You either have it or you don't.

You need to fit into the system or it won't work. Players with the ability to suit a system play well, players that don't have that ability fail. It doesn't mean a players bad, or good if they fail at one club or if indeed they are n great form for another.

Systems and formations make players.

Getting the best use out of players at this level is essential.

Ashton is miles better than Crouch. As i've said in a previous post, its like comparing Carrick and Alonso, Gerrard and Lampard, Cisse and Henry. There is a massive gap in class between the two players, Ashton can do near enough everything Crouch can do and a whole lot more.

My point was proven Premiership scorer. The credentials needed to suceed here are different that the continent, Morientes has shown that.

Ashton is good but someone like Yakubu has shown his ability to score consistently at the top level. Ashton hasn't done that. Thats why I said leave it another year to see his worth. You can't say he will be great in the premiership from seeing him in 6 odd games for West Ham (a promotion team). He may be great but time will tell. Shelling out money like that on Ashton is too much of a risk, the best of players can flop. Look at Cisse and Morientes - we all we're ranting at the start of the season about how good they're gunna be but look how its turned out.

I can say that about Ashton because i've seen the lad live, i've played against him, i know what it takes to be a good player, i know what ability is, i know what to look for and know a player when i see one. So i can and am perfectly correct in what i'm saying.

Ashton is quality. You also don't take into account we paid the same money for Crouch who has a massive 8 more PREMIERSHIP GOALS to his name in over 40 more PREMIERSHIP APPEARANCES. He's hardly "proven".

Ashton played for Crewe and excelled, he played for Norwich and excelled, he's played for the under 21's and excelled and now he's playing for West Ham... and guess what? He's excelling again scoring 3 goals in 4 games so far and gettin man of the match in two games.

Spending money on good players that will fit your system is never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever a risk. Don't talk .

Cisse and Morientes simply didn't have the ability to make it, thats why they failed.

They didn't fail because they couldn't adapt. They failed because they were not good enough. Simple as that.

stu_the_red wrote:I can say that about Ashton because i've seen the lad live, i've played against him, i know what it takes to be a good player, i know what ability is, i know what to look for and know a player when i see one. So i can and am perfectly correct in what i'm saying.

Talking of speaking sh!t. Anyone would think your a fucking expert on the subject. Are you a scout? Do you work for a professional team? Are you a professional player?

I reckon no to all three.

Why don't you contact Liverpool and offer your pearls of wisdom, tell them about when you played against Ashton, i'm sure you'll have a deep and meaningful conversation. They may even pass you on to Rafa himself.

I have actually heard it all now

stu_the_red wrote:As i've said. Proven means nothing. Its got all to do with anything at all. Proven doesn't garentee success.

kopBabe23 wrote:Yakubu would be a good signing

SouthCoastShankly wrote:

stu_the_red wrote:I can say that about Ashton because i've seen the lad live, i've played against him, i know what it takes to be a good player, i know what ability is, i know what to look for and know a player when i see one. So i can and am perfectly correct in what i'm saying.

Talking of speaking sh!t. Anyone would think your a fucking expert on the subject. Are you a scout? Do you work for a professional team? Are you a professional player?

I reckon no to all three.

Why don't you contact Liverpool and offer your pearls of wisdom, tell them about when you played against Ashton, i'm sure you'll have a deep and meaningful conversation. They may even pass you on to Rafa himself.

I have actually heard it all now

What has being a scout, professional player or working for a professional club got to do with anything?

gato_busta wrote:

stu_the_red wrote:I can say that about Ashton because i've seen the lad live, i've played against him, i know what it takes to be a good player, i know what ability is, i know what to look for and know a player when i see one.

You've played against Ashton Stu? Im just curious, do you play for a team? Im not trying to sound offensive its just that I found that part interesting.

Benitez can spend millions on a striker but that doesn't guarantee the striker will be a success. Ashton is a great player but im not sure if he is ready to take the step into one of the big teams. Unfortunately, the only player that I can think of that could get the job done up front is Owen. I say unfortunately because he screwed us ower twice but, IMO, he is what we need  .

I played against him at 18 years of age for Stockport Reserves against Crewe Alex reserves in a closed doors match.

We were winning 3-1 with 60 minutes gone, i scored one and set one up, he comes onto the pitch, scored two belters and set the third up by taking the ball down from a goal kick with myself and Carlton Palmer challenging him turning and playing a 20 yard through ball with perfect weight. He simply took the and strolled through the game. Carlton Palmer was telling me i should go through him if i get a chance at 3-2, but i couldn't get close enough to go through him, on the one chance that lanky had the chance to "go right through him" he bounced off him and ended up on his with the ball in the back of the net.

You say you aren't sure he's "ready". Why? For what reasons?

If you're good enough, you're ready and old enough for anything. Any coach, manager or scout that says otherwise is talking out of there . Young players don't normally make it into the first side at a young age down to confidence/maturity.

Ashton is clearly good enough. In every way barring height and maybe a bit of skill and vision he's better than Crouch. Every other attribute is miles better.

stu_the_red wrote:

gato_busta wrote:

stu_the_red wrote:I can say that about Ashton because i've seen the lad live, i've played against him, i know what it takes to be a good player, i know what ability is, i know what to look for and know a player when i see one.

You've played against Ashton Stu? Im just curious, do you play for a team? Im not trying to sound offensive its just that I found that part interesting.

Benitez can spend millions on a striker but that doesn't guarantee the striker will be a success. Ashton is a great player but im not sure if he is ready to take the step into one of the big teams. Unfortunately, the only player that I can think of that could get the job done up front is Owen. I say unfortunately because he screwed us ower twice but, IMO, he is what we need  .

I played against him at 18 years of age for Stockport Reserves against Crewe Alex reserves in a closed doors match.

We were winning 3-1 with 60 minutes gone, i scored one and set one up, he comes onto the pitch, scored two belters and set the third up by taking the ball down from a goal kick with myself and Carlton Palmer challenging him turning and playing a 20 yard through ball with perfect weight. He simply took the and strolled through the game. Carlton Palmer was telling me i should go through him if i get a chance at 3-2, but i couldn't get close enough to go through him, on the one chance that lanky had the chance to "go right through him" he bounced off him and ended up on his with the ball in the back of the net.

You say you aren't sure he's "ready". Why? For what reasons?

If you're good enough, you're ready and old enough for anything. Any coach, manager or scout that says otherwise is talking out of there . Young players don't normally make it into the first side at a young age down to confidence/maturity.

Ashton is clearly good enough. In every way barring height and maybe a bit of skill and vision he's better than Crouch. Every other attribute is miles better.

SouthCoastShankly wrote:I never said he won't make it just that being so young we have the opportunity to ensure his is competent to play at the highest level.