Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:07 pmdo you think without him last season would we have won the champions league?
another thought barrybelfast
another thought barrybelfast
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Luis garcia - Trickster and ball waster, available .
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:07 pmPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:11 pmshould be dropped, simple as that.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:46 pmmetalhead wrote:do you think without him last season would we have won the champions league?
another thought barrybelfast
The whole team on the champions league! The champions league is not being disscused here.
If you cannot see that garcia's loss of possesion will cost us far more games than his odd goal here and there will win you are on a different planet.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:03 pmBuy joe cole .... and drop LG
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:04 pmLiverpoolMadman wrote:Buy joe cole .... and drop LG
i hope that was a joke
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:06 pmLiverpoolMadman wrote:Buy joe cole .... and drop LG
How about shoot joe cole and drop LG
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:30 pmI think Garcia is a superb player, his goal scoring record is superb and he is the attacking edge that you often need when games are a bit of a stalemate.
The reason people get on his back is because he gives the ball away, and I agree it can be frustrating, but I will offer two reasons why rather than excuses for it:
1) He is unlike other players brave enough to try the flick/stepover/turn/dink etc on the pitch. So many players can do those kind of things, but are restricted by their manger/team formation from trying it.
2) New members of the squad, (and indeed older established ones) need to adapt to Luis' style of play as much as Luis needs to adapt to the English league. Just like two strikers (are you reading this Cisse, Crouch, Nando and Ping Pong) need to form an almost telepathic understanding of each others movement and style of play, so do the other members of Luis' team need to understand what he will try to do with the ball.
You need different types of players in your first 11 to mould a winning team. Some need discipline and a great reading of the game, some stamina and a terrific engine to cover every blade of grass, some need lighning pace and a keen eye for goal, some agility and a bravery to put your body on the line and some need lots of skill and endevour and a good footballing brain.
Luis falls into the last category. The disciplined readers of the game, like Carragher for example are not the kind to see the killer pass or try the audacious lob from 35 yards (remember that Mr Buffon), so they give it to players that can/will like our little Luis.
Dont get me wrong, I think Luis needs to work on his game in terms of playing the more simple ball at times, but if he does give the ball away, its only through trying to create a chance for the team.
People forget all too easily the goals and chances people have had when they see the odd stray pass.
I can only presume that some of you people who have openly slated Luis on here are the same di.ckheads who sit behind me at the match and slate Kewell, Garcia, Riise, Traore, and many other players everytime they misplace a pass.
Misplaced pass' and tackles are what football is about, if a team never misplaced a ball or pass then it would be a boring game to watch. Players need encouragement, not slagging and berating after something they try goes wrong.
Thing is, its only certain players that you lot pick up on anyway. Gerrard misplaces plenty of passes, but there are not threads started every other day about dropping him are there?
The reason people get on his back is because he gives the ball away, and I agree it can be frustrating, but I will offer two reasons why rather than excuses for it:
1) He is unlike other players brave enough to try the flick/stepover/turn/dink etc on the pitch. So many players can do those kind of things, but are restricted by their manger/team formation from trying it.
2) New members of the squad, (and indeed older established ones) need to adapt to Luis' style of play as much as Luis needs to adapt to the English league. Just like two strikers (are you reading this Cisse, Crouch, Nando and Ping Pong) need to form an almost telepathic understanding of each others movement and style of play, so do the other members of Luis' team need to understand what he will try to do with the ball.
You need different types of players in your first 11 to mould a winning team. Some need discipline and a great reading of the game, some stamina and a terrific engine to cover every blade of grass, some need lighning pace and a keen eye for goal, some agility and a bravery to put your body on the line and some need lots of skill and endevour and a good footballing brain.
Luis falls into the last category. The disciplined readers of the game, like Carragher for example are not the kind to see the killer pass or try the audacious lob from 35 yards (remember that Mr Buffon), so they give it to players that can/will like our little Luis.
Dont get me wrong, I think Luis needs to work on his game in terms of playing the more simple ball at times, but if he does give the ball away, its only through trying to create a chance for the team.
People forget all too easily the goals and chances people have had when they see the odd stray pass.
I can only presume that some of you people who have openly slated Luis on here are the same di.ckheads who sit behind me at the match and slate Kewell, Garcia, Riise, Traore, and many other players everytime they misplace a pass.
Misplaced pass' and tackles are what football is about, if a team never misplaced a ball or pass then it would be a boring game to watch. Players need encouragement, not slagging and berating after something they try goes wrong.
Thing is, its only certain players that you lot pick up on anyway. Gerrard misplaces plenty of passes, but there are not threads started every other day about dropping him are there?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:44 pmi'm a big garcia fan and always have been. however as i said earlier, if he's not playing as the second striker he shouldn't be in the team. he's no wide player and never will be.
flair players who can produce something out of the ordinary are few and far between these days. look at his goals against juventus, spurs and charlton last season. that's what he's capable of. considering the fact that houllier virtually refused to play anybody with a decent amount of flair (litmanen springs to mind) i welcome the chance to see somebody with garcia's ability on a regular basis.
flair players who can produce something out of the ordinary are few and far between these days. look at his goals against juventus, spurs and charlton last season. that's what he's capable of. considering the fact that houllier virtually refused to play anybody with a decent amount of flair (litmanen springs to mind) i welcome the chance to see somebody with garcia's ability on a regular basis.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:08 pm2) New members of the squad, (and indeed older established ones) need to adapt to Luis' style of play as much as Luis needs to adapt to the English league. Just like two strikers (are you reading this Cisse, Crouch, Nando and Ping Pong) need to form an almost telepathic understanding of each others movement and style of play, so do the other members of Luis' team need to understand what he will try to do with the ball.
I agree with pretty much Leon has said, especially this particular part. I noticed that in the Chelsea game whenever Garcia passed the ball, his team-mates were able to recieve it better than before because they seemed to know what he was going to do and how he was going to pass it.
So others adapting to the way Garcia plays is spot on. In most cases it's not that he misplaces a pass that causes the ball to be given away its the fact that he doesn't have upper body strength that is required for players to have in the Premiership. However that can be worked on if he trains in the gym.
Last season he scored 8 goals in the Premiership and 5 in the Champions League, 13 goals in his first season with the club is hardly bad at all. Especially when he played in a position[wing] that he wasn't made for.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:32 pmGarcia is the type of player that can (and has) frustrate on numerous occasions within a game and then from nothing can score. This I believe is why Rafa keeps him in the team.
Garica does give balls away - sometimes almost passing to the opposition. However, if you study him, you will see that a good percentage of his balls are clever balls, attempting to carve open a defence - they don't come off, however it is mostly the 'right' type of ball to play, rather than the easiest.
Agree with AB that he does need a bit more upper body strength - he is a tenacious c*nt sometimes and this would help him in his battles on the pitch.
Garica does give balls away - sometimes almost passing to the opposition. However, if you study him, you will see that a good percentage of his balls are clever balls, attempting to carve open a defence - they don't come off, however it is mostly the 'right' type of ball to play, rather than the easiest.
Agree with AB that he does need a bit more upper body strength - he is a tenacious c*nt sometimes and this would help him in his battles on the pitch.
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:05 amI agree with st.michael. If he isn't in behind the strikers he shouldn't be on the pitch. He has great vision and the ability to produce something special from this position but he'll never make a winger and he makes the team worse when he plays as one. Instead of just blindly sticking him on the teamsheet wherever we have a gap, rafa should use him only in games where we can support the strikers and use him as a sub otherwise.
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:14 amGood news: Luis Garcia's problems can be fixed and become an useful player of the squad.
Bad News: He's got a big mind problem, IMHO
Spot on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the trouble, it seems to me that he thinks he has been brought to Anfield to be the New Maradona, the saviour or something. And Luis Aragones hasn't helped with this ego problem as he summoned him for the national squad. Ironically, as he is CL champion now and Liverpool player, he makes the same mistake in the Spanish Squad and tries those impossible things that put my nerves on. He is the one who needs to understand "this is Anfield" plaque, not Rafa.
But possitive bottomline, read again the good news. The task of reminding him who he is must be done by? IMHO Rafa's and guys like Carraguer.
Sabre
Bad News: He's got a big mind problem, IMHO
How is Garcia graced with the number 10 shirt?
I reckon if he was given number 35 or something, he'd play much better.
Spot on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the trouble, it seems to me that he thinks he has been brought to Anfield to be the New Maradona, the saviour or something. And Luis Aragones hasn't helped with this ego problem as he summoned him for the national squad. Ironically, as he is CL champion now and Liverpool player, he makes the same mistake in the Spanish Squad and tries those impossible things that put my nerves on. He is the one who needs to understand "this is Anfield" plaque, not Rafa.
But possitive bottomline, read again the good news. The task of reminding him who he is must be done by? IMHO Rafa's and guys like Carraguer.
Sabre
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:27 ama little off topic and some may not agree, daddyo made a reply/point to which made me think about Cisse,
daddyo wrote
now how can some people defend garcia like this? yeah ok like we have all said before Garcia made an impact to our CL campaign last season, But if he aint up to doing the job he should be dropped to the bench,
now as for Cisse doesnt the above quote effect him in the same way? of course it would, he has spent more time warming the bench this season than actually playing, bringing Cisse into a match that has only 20 or 10 mins remaining doesnt give him time to show what he can do, and because he doesnt produce in the time given that keeps him to the bench longer which further dents his confidence and so on.
Now some replys to this post is going to be....Rafa dont like him or hes going to be sold in jan window or he doesnt fit in to the formation that Rafa is using ATM ,AND hes just not good enough, well if he is given the chance to actually start matches and given a good run like 5 or 6 that alone would boost his confidnece by a mile.
now that is my thought
daddyo wrote
I believe Rafa's trying to play him thru this. thinking that to drop him would do a. his confidence no good at all and b. not help in integrating him into the system he's trying so hard to perfect (of which he sees Garcia or someone like him) as being a major part.........
now how can some people defend garcia like this? yeah ok like we have all said before Garcia made an impact to our CL campaign last season, But if he aint up to doing the job he should be dropped to the bench,
now as for Cisse doesnt the above quote effect him in the same way? of course it would, he has spent more time warming the bench this season than actually playing, bringing Cisse into a match that has only 20 or 10 mins remaining doesnt give him time to show what he can do, and because he doesnt produce in the time given that keeps him to the bench longer which further dents his confidence and so on.
Now some replys to this post is going to be....Rafa dont like him or hes going to be sold in jan window or he doesnt fit in to the formation that Rafa is using ATM ,AND hes just not good enough, well if he is given the chance to actually start matches and given a good run like 5 or 6 that alone would boost his confidnece by a mile.
now that is my thought
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:05 amSTMIKE, play him down the middle if at all, as you say. I think my (and possibly others) frustrtion solely lies in his ability to lose the ball easily. If his little tricks were on the same wavelength as the rest of the team, then his qualities would shine thru. Expectations at lfc are always high, so the fans invariably demand great play and cutting edge skills, but not at the expense of a winning performance.
Garcia will make supporters and foes while at lfc, but with me, i really dont think he can cut it week in week out...........imo
Garcia will make supporters and foes while at lfc, but with me, i really dont think he can cut it week in week out...........imo
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:40 amWe can't find a better replacement for Garcia right this term. He has a lot of good run but he doesn't has the advantage of his body. Ain't he think can run past most of the defender in EPL? but he can't. For me, Gracia is a important capital for us right now. Try to look at each time when he reach the ball, he can lure about 2-3 opponent to defend him as well. If he can learn more clever and try to pass the ball more, then we can run deeper into the box, penalty box. Yeah,baby. Garcia is worth to the No.10 shirt.