Liverpool FC Forum

Posted: **Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:34 am**

Madmax wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
DrPepe wrote:Seems like a lot of healthy debate on here .... and a lot of stressed out reds, too

I wonder what the mood was like here this time last season? was the "safety zone" of 3rd/4th place less stressful than the current league challenge?

In a word....YES!

It's certainly sent this place to the shi...thouse!

And lets be honest, it really sucks on here the last couple of months and I don't see it getting any better unless we actually go out and win the title

TBH sometimes i get depressed on this forum..
Thats why it better to stick to the general chat and check out some find chicks on the LFC chicks thread

Is this forum friendly? I'd be lying if I said yes, but it's up to the mods to tidy up and make sure it doesn't happen. The fact that people are observing hostility and that may drive people away might suggest a rethink in the approaches to dealing with ding dongs and abuse. I took one break from this forum, I now just ignore most of the abuse and steer clear of ding dongs. Best to try to steer a thread back on track and hope the mods clear up the debris.

But that said this is a Liverpool discussion board and there are pros and cons to having mainly Liverpool fans inhabiting it. On the one hand there won't be any rival fans trying to wind us up, but on the other hand we wind each other up because, despite being (or claiming to be) Liverpool fans, we are still different people with different opinions, ways of expressing them and different perspectives on the same thing. You find the same things being discussed in different threads because, let's face it, there isn't a huge amount of different things to discuss regards ONE club.

Perhaps we could have a different section within this "general discussion" section in which to discuss issues that affect the club and other Premiership issues. While I appreciate there is another section for discussing other clubs etc, I don't frequent it much and maybe sometimes we do need a break from discussing Liverpool all the time. Just an idea, but rejigging this section into subsections to discuss :-

Liverpool matchday discussion
Liverpool players discussion
Liverpool tactics, management, ownership etc discussion
Other clubs and issues/games affecting Liverpool FC discussion
Liverpool tribute, past history and other issues discussion
Liverpool related polls

Just by putting those kind of subsections into a submenu might encourage people to switch between sections more and mods could ban matchday "hooligans" from that subsection ie bans could apply to particular discussions. It would also be a bit more organised in terms of discussion types, say if you want to discuss a player then you go to that subsection. With the subject areas subdivided then there's more chance you'll see an existing thread that covers what you want to discuss instead of "official threads" on Kuyt, Lucas, Benayoun etc mixed in with rant threads and matchday threads.

It may also encourage members to visit sections they might never visit, I don't often go out of this section and I doubt I'm alone in spending most of my time in here. The one danger is people might camp in one forum and discuss Kuyt say in matchday threads, but people do anyway but at least they would then have to move to an appropriate subsection to discuss other matters (or get warned/banned for not discussing issues in the rightful place) I just feel that "general discussion" is a bit vague and could do with subsections which might help on several levels

Posted: **Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:25 pm**

It's all just a load of b0llocks really when you look at it, everything we discuss on this forum won't make the slightest bit of difference but it is good to get things off your chest once in a while and on the very rare occasion we have a sensible debate I for one learn a lot of things from the more knowledgeable posters on here. Also I have to say that winding up GYBS is always a laugh, just kidding GYBS you know I nearly like you.

Posted: **Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:52 pm**

Owzat wrote:Effes wanted to revive this thread with stats of past Premiership winning managers. I had to go through an internet search engine as frankly, the search engine on this site is carp

If we draw this afternoon then I think serious rethinks about 'loyalty' to the manager should be widespread, he's shown nothing to suggest he'd come good and fergie is one of only two managers I could find going back to the early eighties who'd taken more than four seasons to win the league.

1st League Titles

Jose Mourinho : Chelsea 2004/05 (1st season)
Arsene Wenger : Arsenal 1997/98 (2nd season, manager in Sep 1996)
Kenny Dalglish : Blackburn 1994/95 (4th season, manager in Oct 1991)
Alex Ferguson : Man Utd 1992/93 (7th season, manager in Nov 1986)
Howard Wilkinson : Leeds Utd 1991/92 (4th season, manager in Oct 1988)
George Graham : Arsenal 1988/89 (3rd season , manager in May 1986)
Kenny Dalglish : Liverpool 1985/86 (1st season double, player-manager)
Howard Kendall : Everton 1984/85 (4th season , player-manager in May 1981)
Joe Fagan : Liverpool 1983/84 (1st season)
Ron Saunders : Aston Villa 1980/81 (7th season, manager in 1974)
Brian Clough : Nottingham Forest 1977/78 (3rd season, manager in Jan 1975)
Dave McKay : Derby County 1974/75 (2nd season, manager in Oct 1973)

So only two of the last TWELVE managers to win the league have taken more than four seasons to do so, that's over 30+ years. None have taken that long since fergie became manager in the mid-80s, maybe four or five seasons is more than par for survival for a manager these days, but that's a fairly exclusive list bearing in mind managers have been at clubs four seasons or more and not done it. Note Evans didn't do it, Houllier didn't, Rafa hasn't yet - and it's not getting any easier. It's no coincidence that teams haven't won the league having been promoted the previous season since Clough did it with Forest. And no side has won the Premiership having finished 4th or lower the previous season. Why? Probably because cash has ruled the roost and it's rare indeed for a club to have a sugar daddy arrive and the previous manager survive long enough to take as long as fergie to do it. Otherwise a manager isn't likely to discover a 'magic formula' in his 5th, 6th, 7th etc season that he didn't in his first four.

I'd like to think Rafa can win the league, however he is making a right meal of management and maybe our league position is somewhat flattering and his (lack of) ability as a manager is what's causing our rapid decline. TEN games to go from seven points ahead of the mancs to five behind - a manager capable of winning the league would be the one reversing a gap.

It's quoting myself from the first page of a thread around Feb 1st

Cheers Owzat - interesting reading.
I guess Kenny's and Wilkinson's aren't really 4th season, as they got them promoted. As did Cloughy.

Posted: **Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:27 pm**

I think we will finish the season with 82 points equalling our record , but not quite enough to catch the mancs who will finish on 88pts or so, and therein for me lies one of the main problems we have on this site. To me if that was the case I would consider the season a major disappointment and a great chance thrown away. Others would consider it an achievment to get within 6 points or so of the Champions and equal our best points total.

I think we may get a result at Old Trafford (probably a draw) but I think when push comes to shove the mancs will gamble on winning the other games and we will gamble on team selection.

Champions usually take their opportunities when they have the chance, while losers tend to hesitate and the moment is gone. I think our moment has probably gone.

Posted: **Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:09 pm**

I still can't believe we are 5 points behind them, the Mancs are going for their number 18 whilst
we w'ank about with our clubs prestigous record by putting our faith in a constantly rotated team.

The bottom line is as much as Rafa is a likeable fella i think he may be the manager who is
remembered for 'Blowing it' big time.

How many clubs around the world would tolerate a manager giving the advantage of their first
title in nearly two decades to their bitter rivals? especially if the Mancs win it.

I feel sick just thinking that we could actually let it slip away, it fecking hurts like hell, Rafa has the
team he has eyes and a pair of glasses too boot and yet he still will not learn that the best 11 must play
week after fecking week, unless of course they are dead.

I want Rafa to prove me wrong i want him to say i will bring the trophy home. But he's like
and little boy who can't stop playing with his penis even though he parents tell him he may go blind.

Make no mistake the world will be watching to see what one of the giants will cross the finish line,
and for the love of god i hope it's us and for Rafa's sake i hope he's not remembered as the one who blew it.

Posted: **Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:19 pm**

are you saying rafa is our keegan?

Posted: **Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:21 pm**

Judge wrote:are you saying rafa is our keegan?

I don't know, what are you saying?.

And will it make sense.

Posted: **Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:06 pm**

mistyred wrote:I want Rafa to prove me wrong i want him to say i will bring the trophy home. But he's like
and little boy who can't stop playing with his penis even though he parents tell him he may go blind.

That just seems way too harsh.

He tests my patience sometimes, but Im not THAT critical of him.

Posted: **Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:09 pm**

Effes wrote:
mistyred wrote:I want Rafa to prove me wrong i want him to say i will bring the trophy home. But he's like
and little boy who can't stop playing with his penis even though he parents tell him he may go blind.

That just seems way too harsh.

He tests my patience sometimes, but Im not THAT critical of him.

What was it the Penis part.

Or

The will go blind part.

Effes that's the great thing about human nature we
all think differently, otherwise we would be a flock of sheep.

Posted: **Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:39 pm**

What a load of bowlocks, people are so emotional and reflect their own insecurities through LFC.

The reds will battle to win this league, meantime fans should get on with their own lives.

All part of the nanny pamby state of insecurity I guess...............

Posted: **Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:24 pm**

Owzat wrote:Perhaps we could have a different section within this "general discussion" section in which to discuss issues that affect the club and other Premiership issues. While I appreciate there is another section for discussing other clubs etc, I don't frequent it much and maybe sometimes we do need a break from discussing Liverpool all the time. Just an idea, but rejigging this section into subsections to discuss :-

Liverpool matchday discussion
Liverpool players discussion
Liverpool tactics, management, ownership etc discussion
Other clubs and issues/games affecting Liverpool FC discussion
Liverpool tribute, past history and other issues discussion
Liverpool related polls

Just by putting those kind of subsections into a submenu might encourage people to switch between sections more

Good idea... Mods what you think??

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:09 pm**

Reg wrote:What a load of bowlocks, people are so emotional and reflect their own insecurities through LFC.

The reds will battle to win this league, meantime fans should get on with their own lives.

All part of the nanny pamby state of insecurity I guess...............

Who's emotional?.

Why do supporters follow Liverpool?.

What has insecure got to do with anything?.

This is football not rocket science, it's a easy game it's basic
get the basics right and see what a difference it makes.

Why over complicate the basics, Makes your job twice as hard and when things start to go wrong more people will take notice.

Now i did not say Rafa is a sh!t manager, i mentioned he is
very likeable, I didn't however mention that i think he will shoot himself in the foot if he doesn't stick to basics.

When i refer to Rafa "Blowing it" i do not mean because he opens his mouth and speaks his mind, we do that everyday in everyday life, i talk about tactics or the fact he is trying to be to smart with his team selections which may ultimately cost us the title.

Champions are made of what Lfc had for 20 yrs,
a stable team, Managers who kept the game simple
and believed pass and move is the best way to play the game.

It's that simple really, If Rafa can get that right he will be a legend among men, i believe he can, he just needs to get over his need to outwit the opposition when their is really no call for it.

And then we will become champions.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:51 pm**

mistyred wrote:
Reg wrote:What a load of bowlocks, people are so emotional and reflect their own insecurities through LFC.

The reds will battle to win this league, meantime fans should get on with their own lives.

All part of the nanny pamby state of insecurity I guess...............

Who's emotional?.

Why do supporters follow Liverpool?.

What has insecure got to do with anything?.

This is football not rocket science, it's a easy game it's basic
get the basics right and see what a difference it makes.

Why over complicate the basics, Makes your job twice as hard and when things start to go wrong more people will take notice.

Now i did not say Rafa is a sh!t manager, i mentioned he is
very likeable, I didn't however mention that i think he will shoot himself in the foot if he doesn't stick to basics.

When i refer to Rafa "Blowing it" i do not mean because he opens his mouth and speaks his mind, we do that everyday in everyday life, i talk about tactics or the fact he is trying to be to smart with his team selections which may ultimately cost us the title.

Champions are made of what Lfc had for 20 yrs,
a stable team, Managers who kept the game simple
and believed pass and move is the best way to play the game.

It's that simple really, If Rafa can get that right he will be a legend among men, i believe he can, he just needs to get over his need to outwit the opposition when their is really no call for it.

And then we will become champions.

I agree totally
And with your "penis" comment as well

The thing that disturbs me the most is the preparation put into beating teams such as stoke, fulham, everton etc. when the message should surely be "these are shi.te, now go and beat them"?

I believe in consistency and stability, strongest team first, best team every week where possible

I just wish Rafa had the same philosophy instead of trying to bamboozle the opposition with tactics and formations

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:25 pm**

mistyred wrote:
Reg wrote:What a load of bowlocks, people are so emotional and reflect their own insecurities through LFC.

The reds will battle to win this league, meantime fans should get on with their own lives.

All part of the nanny pamby state of insecurity I guess...............

Who's emotional?.

Why do supporters follow Liverpool?.

What has insecure got to do with anything?.

This is football not rocket science, it's a easy game it's basic
get the basics right and see what a difference it makes.

Why over complicate the basics, Makes your job twice as hard and when things start to go wrong more people will take notice.

Now i did not say Rafa is a sh!t manager, i mentioned he is
very likeable, I didn't however mention that i think he will shoot himself in the foot if he doesn't stick to basics.

When i refer to Rafa "Blowing it" i do not mean because he opens his mouth and speaks his mind, we do that everyday in everyday life, i talk about tactics or the fact he is trying to be to smart with his team selections which may ultimately cost us the title.

Champions are made of what Lfc had for 20 yrs,
a stable team, Managers who kept the game simple
and believed pass and move is the best way to play the game.

It's that simple really, If Rafa can get that right he will be a legend among men, i believe he can, he just needs to get over his need to outwit the opposition when their is really no call for it.

And then we will become champions.

if football is such a simple game, how come 19 teams in this league are losers at the end of every season? does that mean 19 managers are over-complicating and not getting the basics right? :upside:

I think you're right that the game is q basic

I think it's q basic that a manager with the best players money can buy in his squad is more likely to win than a manager who has to manage with less talent in his squad

I also think it's q basic that 11 players cannot play a whole season in 4 or more competitions and win the lot - therefore players must be rested/rotated/selected to maintain freshness
(for example , look at ORN tonight - "rested" 5 players!)

it's all q basic :bowdown

Posted: **Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:42 am**

Owzat wrote:Perhaps we could have a different section within this "general discussion" section in which to discuss issues that affect the club and other Premiership issues. While I appreciate there is another section for discussing other clubs etc, I don't frequent it much and maybe sometimes we do need a break from discussing Liverpool all the time. Just an idea, but rejigging this section into subsections to discuss :-

Liverpool matchday discussion
Liverpool players discussion
Liverpool tactics, management, ownership etc discussion
Other clubs and issues/games affecting Liverpool FC discussion
Liverpool tribute, past history and other issues discussion
Liverpool related polls

Just by putting those kind of subsections into a submenu might encourage people to switch between sections more and mods could ban matchday "hooligans" from that subsection ie bans could apply to particular discussions. It would also be a bit more organised in terms of discussion types, say if you want to discuss a player then you go to that subsection. With the subject areas subdivided then there's more chance you'll see an existing thread that covers what you want to discuss instead of "official threads" on Kuyt, Lucas, Benayoun etc mixed in with rant threads and matchday threads.

It may also encourage members to visit sections they might never visit, I don't often go out of this section and I doubt I'm alone in spending most of my time in here. The one danger is people might camp in one forum and discuss Kuyt say in matchday threads, but people do anyway but at least they would then have to move to an appropriate subsection to discuss other matters (or get warned/banned for not discussing issues in the rightful place) I just feel that "general discussion" is a bit vague and could do with subsections which might help on several levels

That's a pretty good shout mate, a rejig might be just the ticket.

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