Liverpool FC Forum

ruskiy playmaker wrote:I'd keep Crouch as a 3rd choice player for a few more years because he is a rare kind of player that can give you and advantage over certain teams.  He's going to be really useful for us in the CL.

Emerald Red wrote:Kuyt or Voronin will more than likely start the next game and you all f*cking know it!

bigmick wrote:...to give the bloke a few games. There have been many heated debates about the manager this season, his selection policy, rotation, his man-management, his transfer policy etc etc, but is there anybody, anywhere, who doesn't think that if you swapped the number of appearances which Dirk Kuyt has made this season with the number of appearances that Peter Crouch has made, we wouldn't be in a better position?

I know our stats man Owzat doesn't rate the big fella. Many have said he isn't the long term answer and that we need somebody much better to partner Torres, and they may all have a point. But surely to God, and I don't have any coaching badges but I ask you, FFS it is as plain as the nose on your face anybody can see he is our second best striker? I would even go as far as saying anybody who can't see that hasn't in my humble opinion got a clue.

Now I'm no behavioural phsycologist, but from watching the body language I even think I would go as far as saying Crouch and Torres are mates and like playing together. Their reaction when one or the other scores a goal and the way they talk to each other during a game indicates that this is the case. You could tell today when Crouch scored his goal out of nothing really, and then set up Torres for the Spaniards goal. You could see it in the way Torres was on his bike BEFORE Crouch won the header, anticipating the flick on. It's what strike partnerships are all about, anticipation and understanding.

FFS, PLEASE PLAY OUR TWO BEST STRIKERS IN THE SAME TEAM TOGETHER FROM NOW ON!!!!!!!!!!!! You never know, if we've got two blokes up front who can score a goal rather than just one, we might even win a few more games. It's time.

Bamaga man wrote:

Owzat wrote:

bigmick wrote:I thought you'd probably find a way Owz' of making the stats question what our eyes are telling us, namely that Crouch offers around 1000% more than Kuyt and you didn't disappoint. (All seasons in a Liverpool shirt), well I guess that run Crouch had when he didn't score in his first sixteen games or whatever it was does come in handy for something. Similarly, goals is goals I guess so the fact that Kuyt has scored three Premiership goals this season needs no embellishment. The fact that two out of the three were penalties in one game, and the other goal was a result of the ball hitting him and going in doesn't warrant a mention I guess . And then you've got the cheek to mention Sunderlands poor defence for Crouch's header which gave us the lead  Similarly, it must be my imagination that we seem to flit between the "minutes per goal" comparisons and the "goals per appearance" ones, in whichever manner makes our case better at the time.

I'll give you another factor which can't be quantified by stats I don't think. If you have two players, one of whom plays regularly in the team and one who makes occasional appearances, sometimes going three weeks without getting a start, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect more sharpness and goal threat from the regular starter? Just something to consider when making the comparison.

It strikes me that sometimes people are more concerned with proving themselves right (and I definately include myself in this) than they are with looking at the thing objectively. It's very much like the rotation debate and the pro/anti Rafa thing. I admitted the fact that I called Kuyt totally wrong after half a dozen or so appearances ages ago (I even started a thread to that effect). For that reason it doesn't stick in my throat now to admit now that I think he is an absolute distance short of top-half Premiership club standard. However poor anybody thinks Crouch is, he is a fecking better proposition than Kuyt in every sense by an absolute mile, and no amount of statistical juggling will alter the fact.

I repeat what I said in the topic starter. If you swapped the number of appearances which Kuyt and Crouch had made in the Prem this season, we would be a few points ahead of where we are now I'm sure of it.

Crouch offers 1000% more than Kuyt does he?  I'm glad there's no statistic to back that up, then you're probably one of those who prefers opinion dressed up as fact.

I'm sorry, did Sunderland's defence suddenly become fantastic? Or Havant for that matter? The same Sunderland defence that the bitters scored SEVEN against, still you had to find some way to try and make the stats out to be biased! 32 goals in 13 away games proves my point, hot air doesn't prove your's

And as usual I say Kuyt is as bad as Crouch and you (and others) make out like I'm defending him! Did I say Kuyt is better than Crouch? He scored at a goal every other game early season, Crouch wasn't playing. If you want to play compare cr ap with cr ap then knock yourself out

Fair enough on the week in, week out call. Yet Crouch has played NINE full 90 minutes this season and six lots of 60+ minutes so he's played a full part in nearly half the Liverpool games. Kuyt has played the full 90 minutes sixteen times which is only seven more than Crouch, although the way some of you lot talk you'd think Crouch had not played in years.

Neither is good enough, face facts. If you want to delude yourself that Crouch is going to become a top class striker by playing more often then suit yourself, however all you're doing is criticising me for putting down the stats. You don't have to believe my comments, the fact that you comment on the fact that he took sixteen games to score but not that he played every f ing game bar one in that goalless spell shows selectivity on your part. Why didn't he score in those sixteen games? Because he's sh ite. And he played consistently for his former club, or will you use his ban carried over as an excuse perhaps. Your knack of finding the smallest thing as an excuse reminds me of a bitter blaming Heysel...................

Well at least its nice to see your opinion than these f.ucking stats you stand and live by. However wrong you maybe, you or your biased stats I dont believe Crouch is as s.*i*e as you make out.

Heres a hint, watch the game dont watch the stats. 

Missing so many against havant? what was that? kuyt could have scored those , yet crouch needed an offside goal to score disgraceful 

Owzat wrote:

bigmick wrote:I thought you'd probably find a way Owz' of making the stats question what our eyes are telling us, namely that Crouch offers around 1000% more than Kuyt and you didn't disappoint. (All seasons in a Liverpool shirt), well I guess that run Crouch had when he didn't score in his first sixteen games or whatever it was does come in handy for something. Similarly, goals is goals I guess so the fact that Kuyt has scored three Premiership goals this season needs no embellishment. The fact that two out of the three were penalties in one game, and the other goal was a result of the ball hitting him and going in doesn't warrant a mention I guess . And then you've got the cheek to mention Sunderlands poor defence for Crouch's header which gave us the lead  Similarly, it must be my imagination that we seem to flit between the "minutes per goal" comparisons and the "goals per appearance" ones, in whichever manner makes our case better at the time.

I'll give you another factor which can't be quantified by stats I don't think. If you have two players, one of whom plays regularly in the team and one who makes occasional appearances, sometimes going three weeks without getting a start, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect more sharpness and goal threat from the regular starter? Just something to consider when making the comparison.

It strikes me that sometimes people are more concerned with proving themselves right (and I definately include myself in this) than they are with looking at the thing objectively. It's very much like the rotation debate and the pro/anti Rafa thing. I admitted the fact that I called Kuyt totally wrong after half a dozen or so appearances ages ago (I even started a thread to that effect). For that reason it doesn't stick in my throat now to admit now that I think he is an absolute distance short of top-half Premiership club standard. However poor anybody thinks Crouch is, he is a fecking better proposition than Kuyt in every sense by an absolute mile, and no amount of statistical juggling will alter the fact.

I repeat what I said in the topic starter. If you swapped the number of appearances which Kuyt and Crouch had made in the Prem this season, we would be a few points ahead of where we are now I'm sure of it.

Crouch offers 1000% more than Kuyt does he?  I'm glad there's no statistic to back that up, then you're probably one of those who prefers opinion dressed up as fact.

I'm sorry, did Sunderland's defence suddenly become fantastic? Or Havant for that matter? The same Sunderland defence that the bitters scored SEVEN against, still you had to find some way to try and make the stats out to be biased! 32 goals in 13 away games proves my point, hot air doesn't prove your's

And as usual I say Kuyt is as bad as Crouch and you (and others) make out like I'm defending him! Did I say Kuyt is better than Crouch? He scored at a goal every other game early season, Crouch wasn't playing. If you want to play compare cr ap with cr ap then knock yourself out

Fair enough on the week in, week out call. Yet Crouch has played NINE full 90 minutes this season and six lots of 60+ minutes so he's played a full part in nearly half the Liverpool games. Kuyt has played the full 90 minutes sixteen times which is only seven more than Crouch, although the way some of you lot talk you'd think Crouch had not played in years.

Neither is good enough, face facts. If you want to delude yourself that Crouch is going to become a top class striker by playing more often then suit yourself, however all you're doing is criticising me for putting down the stats. You don't have to believe my comments, the fact that you comment on the fact that he took sixteen games to score but not that he played every f ing game bar one in that goalless spell shows selectivity on your part. Why didn't he score in those sixteen games? Because he's sh ite. And he played consistently for his former club, or will you use his ban carried over as an excuse perhaps. Your knack of finding the smallest thing as an excuse reminds me of a bitter blaming Heysel...................