Liverpool FC Forum

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:47 pm**

Leonmc0708 wrote:Clearly you are einstein to my Forrest Gump.

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:00 pm**

Lakes

Mellor came in handy for the back end of Rafas first season when we had no strikers but is nowhere near the level required for us.
A very poor person to use as an example.

What bothers me more is the readiness to get rid of some useful local-ish players who could easily be squad members and then take punts on loads of foreign kids that are stopping other potential getting the odd look in.
Guthrie being sold is one, he didnt bring in much but could easily do a job, same with Warnock.
We then gamble on Ngog, who looks nowhere near the required level.
That must be really disheartening for some of the younger players.
These players the likes of Spearing and Darby must of been really excited when they seen that the substitute amount was going to 7, yet there are still no places even on the bench.

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:08 pm**

Judge wrote:when the time is nearer then, would you please reopen the fa cup thread

thanks

PMSL

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:13 pm**

lakes10 wrote:I just feel that some of the young player Rafa has paid money for are not as good as some of or youth players that never get a chance.

If more money or just even more time spent by Rafa looking at our own English born youth player that he might not have to go over seas for young players.

dont you think its strang that for years we had great youth players coming into the first team and now we only have one?? no , they are still there but they dont get the chance, their mind set is "i will be a liverpool youth player till someone likes me and then Liverpool will sell me" and it should be, " i am a liverpool youth player and if i do the best i can i will get a chance to show what i can do in the first team".

100% agree!

We persist with Lucas and Ngog yet I see more potential from the likes of Jay Spearing and Daniel Pacheco. Its about time we started taking the academy players seriously.

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:17 pm**

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
lakes10 wrote:I just feel that some of the young player Rafa has paid money for are not as good as some of or youth players that never get a chance.

If more money or just even more time spent by Rafa looking at our own English born youth player that he might not have to go over seas for young players.

dont you think its strang that for years we had great youth players coming into the first team and now we only have one?? no , they are still there but they dont get the chance, their mind set is "i will be a liverpool youth player till someone likes me and then Liverpool will sell me" and it should be, " i am a liverpool youth player and if i do the best i can i will get a chance to show what i can do in the first team".

100% agree!

We persist with Lucas and Ngog yet I see more potential from the likes of Jay Spearing and Daniel Pacheco. Its about time we started taking the academy players seriously.

PErsisting is hardly the right word in these instances.

Lucas is a Brazilian International (full) and captained the U21's.

Spearing is yet to receive any international recognition.

Ngog hardly plays, and Pacheo is very young.

Poor argument mate.

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:40 pm**

Leonmc0708 wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:Thank the lord, mary, joseph and hte angels that you are not anywhere near our outh set up, reserves teams or scouting netork.

You clearly have no clue about this either.

well i seem to know more than you.

but back to LegBarnes, any player that puts a Liverpool shirt on should have the fans with them...........unless they should not be in the first team to start with.

Mellor is top quality.

Clearly you are einstein to my Forrest Gump.

well at least you brave enough to admit it.

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:45 pm**

There are a couple of things I would like to see at Liverpool. I think it would be a good idea to have 2 reserve teams, as they don't play nearly enough games at the moment to give all the players who deserve a chance the opportunity. Secondly I think we should arange a link with some lower division team such as Crewe, where we can loan players out to knowing that they will be given opportunities and decent training to play at a higher level and decent coaching while not being totally forgotten about back at Liverpool.

To me at the moment if a player is loaned out, it seems to be the kiss of death for their Liverpool career. By the time they return we have 3 players already fighting for their old position in the reserves and no room for the player returning from loan. The player then has to decide should he stay at Liverpool and hardly even get a game for the reserves, or look for another club. Most opt to look for another club !

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:47 pm**

The same here in Italy and about italian supporters. They are not all Messi, they will grow up in a different way. For example in Juventus we have Giovinco and he si very good but he needs minutes on his legs to show us what he can really do. that's a problem of supportes, we use to talk a lot...

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:11 pm**

Bam wrote:
Judge wrote:when the time is nearer then, would you please reopen the fa cup thread

thanks

PMSL

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:12 pm**

Ciggy wrote:
Bam wrote:
Judge wrote:when the time is nearer then, would you please reopen the fa cup thread

thanks

PMSL

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:29 pm**

Think of it this way: how many of the so called young local players will ever get the chance to play for England or their respective international sides? Could you envisage Warnock, Guthrie, Spearing (who I think is a nice little player) Carson (oops!), Darby, Linfield etc etc, playing regularly for a title winning club side, and being a regular in the international squad? I can't. Can you see the likes of Lucas, Pacheco, Nemeth, Babel, El Zhar ect ect playing for a big club side and also fitting in with their international teams? Yep. I can. And that's a fact. These young players that Rafa supposedly "wasted" money on are by far more lucrative prospects in the transfer window than most of the players that come up through the academy, most of which are just loaned out, or shipped out for a very low fee or a Bosman.

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:36 pm**

s@int wrote:There are a couple of things I would like to see at Liverpool. I think it would be a good idea to have 2 reserve teams, as they don't play nearly enough games at the moment to give all the players who deserve a chance the opportunity. Secondly I think we should arange a link with some lower division team such as Crewe, where we can loan players out to knowing that they will be given opportunities and decent training to play at a higher level and decent coaching while not being totally forgotten about back at Liverpool.

To me at the moment if a player is loaned out, it seems to be the kiss of death for their Liverpool career. By the time they return we have 3 players already fighting for their old position in the reserves and no room for the player returning from loan. The player then has to decide should he stay at Liverpool and hardly even get a game for the reserves, or look for another club. Most opt to look for another club !

I agree about the second reserve team, Man City play their 2nd reserve team in the reserve league of the lower divisions, I think its called the Pontins Holiday League, its got Forrest Reserves and the like. Either that or Liverpool should try and help form a G-14 typish reserve league so the top youngsters at the top clubs in Europe can get games against each other.

As far as the loan move being the kiss of death, we will see with Hammill coming back from his loan in December what happens with him, but I just don't think he is a consistent enough of a performer.

Personally, I felt that selling Guthrie was a mistake, but he would have been pretty low of the depth chart, and we have probably come close to maxing out what he is capable of by this age in comparison to the potential growth that Lucas could go through at the club. Only time will tell on that one. Maybe Guthrie was moved on to make room for Spearing or Pepper, who knows?

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:42 pm**

The same people who moan Refa isnt giving academy players enough minutes are the same ones who would spit the dummy if he was to start them and we lost.
People bang on about the likes of Pechecio because of a couple of decent performances against soft pre-season opposition, regardless of how his form has been this season and the fact he's hardly prolific for the youth and ressies.A fool could see he's nowhere near ready for the physical demands of prem footy.
Its not easy to blood these young players when every game is so important and youve got fans looking for any excuse to have a go.
If players like Guthrie, mellor and Warnock are good enough to be in a title chasing side then why does no one with a chequebook in their hand think so, why are two fighting relegation and the other in the championship while players like Lucas and Babel stared during the olympics, are worth millions of pounds and could find another top club tomorrow?

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:46 pm**

lakes10 wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
lakes10 wrote:I just feel that some of the toung player Rafa has paid money for are not as good as some of or youth players that never get a chance.

If more money or just even more time spent by Rafa looking at our own English born youth player that he might not have to go over seas for young players.

dont you think its strang that for years we had great youth players coming into the first team and now we only have one?? no , they are still there but they dont get the chance, their mind set is "i will be a liverpool youth player till someone likes me and then Liverpool will sell me" and it should be, " i am a liverpool youth player and if i do the best i can i will get a chance to show what i can do in the firts team".

Wwho ?

Shane O'Connor

Michael Scott (sorry but i think he is going to be great and is ready to be given a good chance in the team)

Michael Roberts is another one that needs to be given his chance now,he is very young but i feel he is ready (it sems i am in liverpool at the wrong time and when i am there i only get to see more youth games than first team games)

Shane O'Connor?

You must be joking.

Current players on the books better at the left back position than Shane O'Connor:

Insua
Threlfall
Butchmann
Gary Mackay-Steven (and he is mostly a winger)
and possibly even Alex Cooper who is kind of a hybrid left midfield that can play left back)

Michael Scott?

yea he is having a decent season at U18s and its his first year at right back switching from striker, but Darby is miles better, and Kelly is probably a better right back as well. Not to mention some of those small U16s Centre halfs that will probably switch to fullback like Connor Coady or Jack Metcalf
Steven Irwin is YOUNGER than Michael Scott and a better right back, and he probably wont even play right back for Liverpool anymore.

Both O'Connor and Michael Scott are overage players in the U18s, they aren't even elligible for the youth cup.

Michael Roberts has actually impressed me as well this season from what I have seen of him, seems to have a solid all around game in central midfield, good passer good tackler and the like, but he probably isn't as good as Pepper, Spearing, or Irwin. But I still like him and I certainly am not going to write him off.

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:48 pm**

thx all for taking this post as it was ment to be.

I am not asking for you all blindly just surport players but I just ask you to remember they are still young and need time this is all.

Try not to treat them as seasoned pro's as they are not yet no matter how much hype they had before they come to our great club.

Thank you

Liverpool FC Forum

Time to wise up - Young players need help