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Heart vs hollywood
Posted:
Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:16 pmby stmichael
I feel that this place is becoming 'pushed' towards the whole Mike Jeffries deal than is usual. Don't get me wrong, he is a Liverpool fan through and through, a guy who would sell his granny to see Stevie holding aloft the Premiership trophy come this and every May, but so would I and that doesn't make me the ideal benefactor (if I had any money) for Liverpool Football Club.
I personally am fed up with the constant (maybe my perceived) perception of Liverpool as a play-thing, almost a pawn in a greater plan amongst other parties with greater objectives at work. Shaiskin, Morgan, Grammy and now Jeffries. I would welcome more money, but it seems that Rick Parry is now become the pariah of LFC for not selling out asap to anyone who mentions the words commercialism, LFC and money in the same breath.
Phrases such as "Goal! will actually be the biggest movie in the third quarter of 2005, on literally thousands of screens worldwide" are so subjective and speculative, its preying on peoples greed and perception of advertising = money. How many people here went out and bought replicamemorabilia of Cuba Gooding Jnr's team in Jerry Maguire?? Did anyone go and buy loads more products simply due to the fact that they were plugged mercilessly during 'The Minority Report'? How many extra fans did Sheff Utd admit through the turnstiles due to 'When Saturday Comes'??
A lot of people on here would appear to take the same route as Chelski, Manure and, abeit late, Arsenal. Would you like a wealthy businessman, with limited knowledge of the club and even less knowlege of football take control and possibly pull out at any minute leaving the club bankrupt ( a la Cheski??)?? Would you want Liverpool to drop the name 'Football Club' and become a PLC, selling out to the highest bidder (a la Manure)?? Would you want Liverpool to sell the ground name and shirt sponsorship for £6.66m per year ( a la Arsenal)??
We could do with the money but I (and this is where you start arguing with me if you haven't already!) would rather be a team of Newcastle or Villa stature than sell our soul.
I live for kick-off, for the chance of my heroes playing and possibly winning. I drink myself happy if we win, and drink myself into oblivion if we lose. And I wouldn't have it any other way.
People I knew lost their lives for this great club 15 years ago, and I so sorely miss them. Passion matterered back then and still does. The highest level of Football is now completely money orientated, but it does't mean we (LFC) have to sell out to the highest bidder.
Through thick and thin, YNWA.
Posted:
Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:26 pmby Adebisi
good post,
sometimes pride and heritage are more important than money for me, although in this day and age the game is all about the filthy lucre, I dread to think what our new stadium might be called if an Emirates type company comes in. I feel its tainted Arsenal's new stadium by being named that.
I remember Karen Brady once saying she wouldnt mind Birmingham being called Benson & Hedges FC if the money was right!
Posted:
Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pmby Redtribe
I agree with your sentiment in certain repects but the world we live in is a commercial one and i see no harm in it if things are done correctly and Mr Parry has LFC's best at heart and will not do anything to sell the club out.
But do you not think the same things were said when the game went pro or when sponserships were first used on shirts.
For an example the league has now been under different guises owned by different companies used as a commercial tool, but it means no less to win the title!
If Anfield was sponsered by someone it would still be known as Anfield.
I basically think that there is 2 strong arguments to be made and that LFC's best interest would be to find the correct balance!
Posted:
Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:57 pmby jim_morrison_supported_liverpool
mike i agree with your post wholeheartedly, and posted a similar one on another site recently.
since the massive argument i had with another poster however, i've been doin some thinkin.
the main point to come out of it was that LFC is ASLREADY a club governed by money and commercialism, and you as a match-goer and shirt buyer, are already an "LFC subscriber" who's been conned into thinking its not about this, and your support is valued for genuine reasons.
your actions actually fund this capitalist regime, and help towards its growth. the next step is a takeover, but what is in place now is not a million miles away from it at all.
i think there's a huge amount of naivety in thinking that everything is fine and has "soul" at the moment, only to be ruined by these capitalist money-merchants, who will make it all about money etc.
it already is all about money, and the fans support this regime every week by forking out the ridiculous amounts for tickets, shirts etc. to then say that you would rather have the club be like newcastle or villa is a contradiction, because they too are governed by money and the same regime. dont you remember the tapes of John Hall laughin his t*ts off at the "dumb geordies" who fall for the rip-off prices of the shirts so they can be a "true supporter."
its one or the other in my book, if you dont like this money-nightmare and are against the new talk of takeovers etc, you have to go the whole hog, not buy tickets, not buy shirts and the rest of it, because thats the same thing, but to a lesser degree.
i am guilty of going the pub to watch the match, therefore suporting the fees that they pay sky to show the game, and we all know how much sky runs football aswell, as a commercial sport used to boost profits. but thats the only way i get to follow my team , and also be against the capitalist machine that is ruining the beautiful game, THAT IS ALREADY IN PLACE AT CLUBS LIKE LIVERPOOL, NEWCASTLE AND VILLA ETC.
if you've misunderstood any of the post, i'll clarify. i actually agree with you mike, but just dont be fooled into thinking its never been about this until the "Mcdonalds Stadiun" comes into play. its in place now, are you against it now? if so what do you do?
personally. i pay nothing towards the revenue of LFC for all of these reasons, and risk having people not call me a true fan. this p*sses me off but i know my reasons are because i refuse to be a customer who supports the regime, and i love the game so much that i can never fund something that i know is ruining it.
Posted:
Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:09 amby LFC #1
I agree with Jim there. Football is all about commercialisation these days, and is more of a business than ever. Some clubs go to extrems though whcih in many fans eyes are unacceptable, such as being a PLC and losing the name football club (Manure) and selling stadium name rights.
Unfortunatley some of it needs to be done to buy players and have good facilties for players/fans. Jim is right about the tickets/shirts thing, and to me this is a reasonably acceptable form of gaining revenue, and must be done to compete in today's football world. However as the years go on ticket prices and memorabilia prices get more and more expensive making it difficult for many to attend games regularly and purchase shirts, hats etc because of the financial strain it can put on people.
Unfortunatley this is thew way of professional sport these days, and hoepfully football doesn't turn into the comeercialised farce that is in sports like American Football, and retain some of it's tradition.
Liverpool is a proud club with great traditions and hoepfully we will never go to the extents that clubs like Man utd have gone too to gain revenue and keep the businessman happy.
Posted:
Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:41 amby Starbridge42
I'm one who is happy to see a takeover bid by someone with a lot of cash, jefferies looks attractive offer to me because he wants to keep Moores and Parry involved deeply in the running of the club. I see no problem with commercialisation or else you see a problem so deeply rooted in society it cannot be removed, you say you dont but the tickets or shirts or whatever because you
'refuse to be a customer who supports the regime, and i love the game so much that i can never fund something that i know is ruining it.'
but if you buy anything anywhere then you are being a customer who supports the regime, jsut not the regime of Liverpool. Lets face, the whole world is about the money and theres nothing you can do about because communism just doesnt work.
Posted:
Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:32 amby jim_morrison_supported_liverpool
Starbridge42 wrote:I'm one who is happy to see a takeover bid by someone with a lot of cash, jefferies looks attractive offer to me because he wants to keep Moores and Parry involved deeply in the running of the club. I see no problem with commercialisation or else you see a problem so deeply rooted in society it cannot be removed, you say you dont but the tickets or shirts or whatever because you
'refuse to be a customer who supports the regime, and i love the game so much that i can never fund something that i know is ruining it.'
but if you buy anything anywhere then you are being a customer who supports the regime, jsut not the regime of Liverpool. Lets face, the whole world is about the money and theres nothing you can do about because communism just doesnt work.
i'm not talking about the rest of the world, i'm talking about liverpool football club. i dont but anything that supports the regime that exists there.
Posted:
Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:51 pmby maximus
LFC #1 wrote:Liverpool is a proud club with great traditions and hoepfully we will never go to the extents that clubs like Man utd have gone too to gain revenue and keep the businessman happy.
Whilst I dislike manure with a passion as well as the next Liverpool fan, why not? Liverpool is a proud club with traditions, yes.......................but with no league title for the past 15 years. If commercialism is needed to rectify that, then lets move with the times, don't dismiss it out of hand, IMO it is a very blinkered viewpoint
Posted:
Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:58 pmby Leonmc0708
stmichael wrote:A lot of people on here would appear to take the same route as Chelski, Manure and, abeit late, Arsenal. Would you like a wealthy businessman, with limited knowledge of the club and even less knowlege of football take control and possibly pull out at any minute leaving the club bankrupt ( a la Cheski??)?? Would you want Liverpool to drop the name 'Football Club' and become a PLC, selling out to the highest bidder (a la Manure)?? Would you want Liverpool to sell the ground name and shirt sponsorship for £6.66m per year ( a la Arsenal)??
If it meant that we challenged for and won the league more often than "in the last fifteen years", then YES YES YES YES and finally YES.
There is no room in football for sentiment, I woul;d love us to stay at Anfield and for Fowler and Owen to still be here, but you MUST move with the times.
Posted:
Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:07 pmby LFC #1
maximus wrote:LFC #1 wrote:Liverpool is a proud club with great traditions and hoepfully we will never go to the extents that clubs like Man utd have gone too to gain revenue and keep the businessman happy.
Whilst I dislike manure with a passion as well as the next Liverpool fan, why not? Liverpool is a proud club with traditions, yes.......................but with no league title for the past 15 years. If commercialism is needed to rectify that, then lets move with the times, don't dismiss it out of hand, IMO it is a very blinkered viewpoint
fair enough maximus , but i couldn't imagine us being Liverpool PLC!
Posted:
Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:15 amby zarababe
... I read recently that Parry said that the reason LFC do not have a dedicated channel for fans is because of the problem of rights to show LFC games on there..
it seems to me that the club is in the jurassic age.. and until, as already said in this thread, we become more outward focused, less insular and more willing to embrace the commercialism, we are in danger of being wiped out by a meteorite .. in terms of being amongst the football elites 
The new stadium is an important development, not least because it is a venture that aims to put someting back in to the Liverpool Community too, through major regeneration of the area...
I think the club must employ more effective strategies on marketing to compete with the "movers and shakers"... otherwise a visit to Jurassice park may become all too real
Posted:
Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:40 amby Dalglish
Pride and passion doesn't necessarily have to be dependent on success. Why do I say that ? Because there are fans up and down the land who have pride and passion in their club whilst not seeing the success that we have seen.
Thast not to say we can't maximise our revenue potential but it sits uneasy with me when people talk of doing "whatever it takes" to win the title again.
The reality (wel lto me at least) is that it DOES matter how this great club conducts iteself in terms of attracting investment and generating cash for the club.
I'm with St Michael on this suject, success yes but at any cost ? 
Posted:
Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:46 amby LFC #1
have to agree, success is fantastic but perhaps what is more important is the tradition of the club and what we stand for.
Posted:
Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:49 amby Dalglish
Exactly. lets not get too carried away here. Liverpool Football Club, if it wins nothing for the next 50 years will always be a great club. Sell it's soul (like Chelsea) and you risk alienating a generation of fans.
Posted:
Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:52 amby LFC #1
it is really a bit of a conundrum, sell your soul for success and as you said Ian, alienate a generation of fans, or keep tradition and risk not being able to compete with the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and Manure.