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Sooner or later we'll have to accept - It's not working.
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:13 pmby bigmick
Roll on January they say, roll on indeed. West Ham is a MUST WIN? no sh!te. In Rafa we trust, give 'em time, remember Pires etc etc etc. I think that's all the old cliches out of the way som what if we look beyond those?
I think if we continue to play this low-tempo, watchful and cautious type of football we will stay roughly where we are in the league give or take a place or two. As it's a fairly ordinary Premiership if you take out Chelsea, a slight improvement may see us climb a little higher I guess. There are some things though that need to happen about now in my view, here's what.
Squad rotation must cease as of now until we have found some form and consistency. When we start stringing a few results together then we can start resting the odd player. This changing the style and personel every week isn't doing anybody any favours. The way things are going, the players can rest for the last couple of months of the season because we'll be mid-table and playing nothing games. Lets find our best team and make the others fight to get in it. Simple.
Lets play a compact and hardworking 4-4-2. Simple.
Lets find OUR tempo. I am of the opinion that are most effective when we press the ball high up the pitch and play at a high tempo. Simple.
Lets play with one holding/sitting/DMC midfielder, and one attacking midfielder. The attacking midfielder must be a box to box type player, let's see some energy and a bit of sweat. Simple.
Let's play Cisse in every game as he looks like the most likely person to score a goal. While we're at it, let's play him through the centre. Simple.
The system is simple also. We have a goalkeeper and two full-backs whose job is mostly to defend. Two central defenders, one who mostly contests the headers. One defensive, one attacking central midfielder and two wide midfielders who work up and down the line. Two strikers, one with pace and one who is going to contest the headers. It's simple because football is a simple game.
Roll on January? Totally agree. Go and buy Jermaine Pennant for about 6-7 million quid. Ask about Ledley King and when they scare you off with the price go to Madrid and buy Woodgate for about 8 million. Pool together whatever you have left, go down the back of the sofa and put it all together and Buy Andy Johnson for about 8 million. Sell the people who between now and then don't do the business and move on. It's time.
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:22 pmby mistyred
Great post Mick football is simple why over complicate things. Fantastic points and have been thinking along the same lines along with others, again great post.
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:22 pmby JC_81
Good post mick, agree with most of that, especially the shout about scrapping rotation. We need to scrap it until we at least find out what our best 11 is, because at the moment no one knows.
Stubbornness was Houllier's downfall in the end, and if Benitez doesn't watch himself it could be his downfall too.
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:30 pmby The_Rock
We can come up with all type of suggestions.....But rafa will only do what he wants.....
1)How else can u explain his loyalty to morientes ? He gives an interview that once gonzales comes in, he will provide crosses for moro & crouch ...... No mention of cisse at all. Everyone here knows cisse is our most potent striker....But he will prob go the baros way.
2)Why did he buy crouch when he already have morientes ?
3)He just gave an interview that josemi is playing well after his injury....don't ask me to comment on that.....
4)He went and buy reina even though we had 3 quality keepers in the squad....And people ask why we didn't buy simao....
5)Why do we have to start so cautious against inferior teams like birmingam and fullham (and even boro too). ?
I find rafa is pretty stubborn sometimes...He bought crouch when baros was here... And thus had to rush him out (result in getting only 6 million for him). He didn't need to buy reina...but he still gets him even when we have 3 top keepers. And all this at the expense of RW & CB (2 of our most problematic positions...).
I still think rafa is a great manager, but like he said sometimes players have to realise that they are in a big club...well likewise, he has to realise that he is managing one of the biggest clubs in the world. Stuff he did at valencia will not work here...... The fans ain't singing la rafa anymore.
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:32 pmby crazyhorse
Absolutley, the great Liverpool teams of the past always played great passing football, but at a high tempo. I do not understand this chess like approach we are adopting in the PL - play with tempo. we in Alonso and Gerrard have two of the best technically gifted players in europe - they are being wasted knocking square balls around in front of packed defences. Lets get some decent movement up front and up the tempo - what we have now will win us nothing.
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:46 pmby The Canadian Red Army
i will mention one thing that phil neal said last night at the pub. Our Fullbacks need to create overlap with the wingers. We need them to push up to and pass the wingers into the box aswell.
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:48 pmby The_Rock
The Canadian Red Army wrote:i will mention one thing that phil neal said last night at the pub. Our Fullbacks need to create overlap with the wingers. We need them to push up to and pass the wingers into the box aswell.
That will never happen if josemi & traore are our fullbacks......
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:52 pmby The Canadian Red Army
The_Rock wrote:The Canadian Red Army wrote:i will mention one thing that phil neal said last night at the pub. Our Fullbacks need to create overlap with the wingers. We need them to push up to and pass the wingers into the box aswell.
That will never happen if josemi & traore are our fullbacks......
well it could happen when finnan, and warnock get back to the positions.
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:56 pmby kidder
totally agree with bigmick.. great post mate 
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:52 pmby welsh wizzard
Agree with post totally but not the signings of penant, and johnson come on 8m for johnson we sold baros for 6m. We do need three signings i agree. These i hope will be in Jan. Thats only what just over 9 weeks away. So by the time new players come in we should still have close to 25 premiership games to play, and with i hope more than ever a settled team from january.I want to see!
reina
finnin carragher woodgate barraghan
joaquin/simao alonso gonz/kewell
gerrard
kuite cisse
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:06 pmby bring_back_biscan
He just gave an interview that josemi is playing well after his injury
Look on the brightside.
Just think what he'd be like playing badly.
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:37 pmby bigmick
bring_back_biscan wrote:He just gave an interview that josemi is playing well after his injury
Look on the brightside.
Just think what he'd be like playing badly.
very good point mate to be fair. Sorry to return to this point about buying players which are used to playing in the Premiership and that but sometimes I wonder, I really do. The fella who got the second goal today, Boa Morte is a good player IMHO. You could do a lot worse than look at him as one of our missing wide men but that's not my point. My point is I remember when he first came to England, at Arsenal and he was absolutely useless. He went round a couple of clubs before he got to Fulham and now he's got the hang of it. He's a decent player. It might well be that in a couple of years some of our players will get the hang of the Prem, but have we got that long? I don't think we should forget about buying players from abroad but it seems to me we don't consider British based players often enough.
Am I absolutely alone in wondering why we didn't and don't pursue Jermaine Pennant? He is, by an absolute distance the best player Birmingham have got. Gamble factor if you bought him, zero. Is it me or did Spurs absolutely steal Jermaine Jenas? gamble factor, zero. Is Stuart Downing not an option? If not, why not? Too many of our lads look like rabbits caught in the headlights when the tackles start flying in.
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:04 pmby 76-1115222408
You are right Bigmick there are many a player we should/could have a look at, decent players that now the drill. The kind that spring to mind are the likes of Francis at Wigan, or Gabbiadon (sp?) at West Ham (he has been good for years now IMO!) also Pennant as you say or even the young chap at Charlton on the left (his name is lost on me right now!).
We do need to look at some of these type of players at times too, I am not saying that these type of players should be first eleven players, but they would be great squad players and would come straight in and do a good job, especially being British they will know how big a club Liverpool really is and the effort that is expected as standard.
And best of all, like you say, the relative risk in such purchases would not be that high either.
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:26 pmby JBG
While I class myself as one of Benitez' biggest supporters I acknowledge that things are not working out for us at the moment and really, Europe aside, Rafa has not improved our leaguie showing from the last days of Houllier.
I think he will get things right - eventually - and I think he'll eventually make us a very effective team in the Premiership. However, my fear is that Rafa could shoot himself in the foot and not give himself the chance to work the oracle. If we keep stumbling on like we are now then he'll come under huge pressure and could end up self destructing like Houllier.
I still think Rafa is the man, but like Alan Hansen said tonight, when you are struggling you go back to basics: pick your best team week in, week out and keep it simple until your form returns.
Traore consistently ahead of Warnock and Risse at left back? 
Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:44 pmby bring_back_biscan
we don't consider British based players often enough
Agree, but then its hard to buy a Premiership player for reasonable money. Two I think we could've made a better effort to get were Dawson and Lennon.