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Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby heimdall » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:04 pm

Kenny Kan » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:29 am wrote:They're on these boards in droves.

Definition: Exposure of football brought on by the Murdoch cooperation and in conjunction with the world wide web has picked up a new age footballing fan. One, who spits their dummies out and stamps their feet if things don't go according to plan; i.e. they turn on their manager very quickly (not even a full season, where even a cup has been won!)and are akin to Roman Abramovich and the demandings he places on his managers. Never mind that this 'new age' philosophy contradicts everything about Liverpool FC and its 'way' which affords patience and support when walking through a storm. No, that's irrelevant to the sky/inet generation fan - demanding instant success is their philosophy and no matter how great and iconic one is (Kenny Dalglish), they won't let this legend stand in the way of a good f.ucking witch hunt.


I'm perplexed by this argument of loyalty to the manager rather than the team. By your way of thinking there is never any drive to improve through change, and we should never have gotten rid of the previous owners or Roy Hodgson because maybe they could have turned it around. 
From my point of view you give everything a fair chance, and kenny has had more than a fair chance from all fans, he's also had, and wasted, the biggest transfer budget of any Liverpool manager ever, he has massively underachieved and for that he needs to go otherwise we'll be singing YNWA in the conference within a very short amount of time.
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Postby LFC2007 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:14 pm

heimdall » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:04 pm wrote:
Kenny Kan » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:29 am wrote:They're on these boards in droves.

Definition: Exposure of football brought on by the Murdoch cooperation and in conjunction with the world wide web has picked up a new age footballing fan. One, who spits their dummies out and stamps their feet if things don't go according to plan; i.e. they turn on their manager very quickly (not even a full season, where even a cup has been won!)and are akin to Roman Abramovich and the demandings he places on his managers. Never mind that this 'new age' philosophy contradicts everything about Liverpool FC and its 'way' which affords patience and support when walking through a storm. No, that's irrelevant to the sky/inet generation fan - demanding instant success is their philosophy and no matter how great and iconic one is (Kenny Dalglish), they won't let this legend stand in the way of a good f.ucking witch hunt.


I'm perplexed by this argument of loyalty to the manager rather than the team. By your way of thinking there is never any drive to improve through change, and we should never have gotten rid of the previous owners or Roy Hodgson because maybe they could have turned it around. 
From my point of view you give everything a fair chance, and kenny has had more than a fair chance from all fans, he's also had, and wasted, the biggest transfer budget of any Liverpool manager ever, he has massively underachieved and for that he needs to go otherwise we'll be singing YNWA in the conference within a very short amount of time.


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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:16 pm

heimdall » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:04 pm wrote:
Kenny Kan » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:29 am wrote:They're on these boards in droves.

Definition: Exposure of football brought on by the Murdoch cooperation and in conjunction with the world wide web has picked up a new age footballing fan. One, who spits their dummies out and stamps their feet if things don't go according to plan; i.e. they turn on their manager very quickly (not even a full season, where even a cup has been won!)and are akin to Roman Abramovich and the demandings he places on his managers. Never mind that this 'new age' philosophy contradicts everything about Liverpool FC and its 'way' which affords patience and support when walking through a storm. No, that's irrelevant to the sky/inet generation fan - demanding instant success is their philosophy and no matter how great and iconic one is (Kenny Dalglish), they won't let this legend stand in the way of a good f.ucking witch hunt.


I'm perplexed by this argument of loyalty to the manager rather than the team. By your way of thinking there is never any drive to improve through change, and we should never have gotten rid of the previous owners or Roy Hodgson because maybe they could have turned it around. 
From my point of view you give everything a fair chance, and kenny has had more than a fair chance from all fans, he's also had, and wasted, the biggest transfer budget of any Liverpool manager ever, he has massively underachieved and for that he needs to go otherwise we'll be singing YNWA in the conference within a very short amount of time.


but what you dont seem to understand is that it`s quite common for things to go bad for relatively new managers but that doesnt mean they cant turn things around, look at united and everton, 2 big clubs, 2 great clubs, the most successful managers in their entire respective histories survived the sack by the skin of their teeth, kendall had cushions thrown at him inside the ground and fans were handing kendall out leaflets outside the ground, ferguson had flags telling him to pi$$ off draped around old trafford. to be fair to the united and everton fans it took a few years to get to that stage, our fans are on kennys back even when he`s won a f**king trophy, maybe even 2!
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Postby Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:31 pm

I do hope Kenny turns things around, but the utter contempt shown for the man particularly on the club's official forum is nothing short of abhorrent. Some of our fellow supporters simply do not understand what the term "supporter" means. Fingers crossed that Kenny gets things right in the summer and turns things around next season, because I am not sure I can bear another season like the last three we've had.
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Postby tubby » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:05 pm

The point about loyalty to the team/club over the manager is a fair one as is the possibility that the previous manager COULD HAVE turned it around IF GIVEN THE CHANCE. You know what i'm gonna say don't you... why didn't Rafa get a chance to turn it around? And before anyone's neck pops out with cries of 'he had 5 years' well all but the last of those years were spent basking in a non stop frenzy of European niceness not to mention the closest push for the league yet. If there ever was a chance for things to turn around genuinely it was then.

Back to now though it remains to be seen how FSG handle the situation in terms of our budget. If we end up going back to 15-20mil + whatever we get in sales then we can virtually kiss goodbye CL footy at least until we have a new stadium that is bringing in more revenue. What we really need is for FSG to say ok no worries people here's another 100+ million, but try get it right this time eh? The real outcome will probably be somewhere in between those 2 senarios. From FSG's perspective though what reason do they have to keep Kenny on after blowing so much money?

I know it must look bad in some peoples eyes to be saying sack Kenny but I think some of you need to take a step back and look at the situation without the emotional attachment to Dalglish. If this was any other manager I know everyone would be far more vocal in expressing dissapointment at how the season has panned out. From a business perspective for FSG it probably makes no sense to give him another wad to blow. Final point to ponder... what if FSG only have another window of big spending left in them before they need to reign in things prior to FFP.

Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:31 pm wrote:I do hope Kenny turns things around, but the utter contempt shown for the man particularly on the club's official forum is nothing short of abhorrent. Some of our fellow supporters simply do not understand what the term "supporter" means. Fingers crossed that Kenny gets things right in the summer and turns things around next season, because I am not sure I can bear another season like the last three we've had.


I haven't seen any contempt mate. I have seen unbiased views taken out of context by others though given who the manager was.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:00 pm

tubby » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:05 pm wrote:The point about loyalty to the team/club over the manager is a fair one as is the possibility that the previous manager COULD HAVE turned it around IF GIVEN THE CHANCE. You know what i'm gonna say don't you... why didn't Rafa get a chance to turn it around? And before anyone's neck pops out with cries of 'he had 5 years' well all but the last of those years were spent basking in a non stop frenzy of European niceness not to mention the closest push for the league yet. If there ever was a chance for things to turn around genuinely it was then.

Back to now though it remains to be seen how FSG handle the situation in terms of our budget. If we end up going back to 15-20mil + whatever we get in sales then we can virtually kiss goodbye CL footy at least until we have a new stadium that is bringing in more revenue. What we really need is for FSG to say ok no worries people here's another 100+ million, but try get it right this time eh? The real outcome will probably be somewhere in between those 2 senarios. From FSG's perspective though what reason do they have to keep Kenny on after blowing so much money?

I know it must look bad in some peoples eyes to be saying sack Kenny but I think some of you need to take a step back and look at the situation without the emotional attachment to Dalglish. If this was any other manager I know everyone would be far more vocal in expressing dissapointment at how the season has panned out. From a business perspective for FSG it probably makes no sense to give him another wad to blow. Final point to ponder... what if FSG only have another window of big spending left in them before they need to reign in things prior to FFP.

Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:31 pm wrote:I do hope Kenny turns things around, but the utter contempt shown for the man particularly on the club's official forum is nothing short of abhorrent. Some of our fellow supporters simply do not understand what the term "supporter" means. Fingers crossed that Kenny gets things right in the summer and turns things around next season, because I am not sure I can bear another season like the last three we've had.


I haven't seen any contempt mate. I have seen unbiased views taken out of context by others though given who the manager was.


you know what though lad, for all the stick D_C gets he is the only what i`d call `anti dalglish` fan on these boards that feels that comoli`s and the owners role in our transfers has to be taken into consideration, everyone else is so keen to blame dalglish for everything they dont want to accept that the owners went to see billy beane and hire comoli because they had their own idea`s on what our transfer policy should be.
i agree with practically nothing D_C says but at least he`s not just following an anti dalglish agenda for the sake of it, he`s prepared to accept that other factors could be involved in our signings. others on these boards are practically falling over themselves to blame dalglish for everything.
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Postby Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:16 pm

Dalglish is ultimately the manager and so the responsibility rests on his shoulders, if he didn't want the likes of Adam, Carroll, Downing and Henderson brought into the club then I am sure he would have void his disapproval. Why should the owners get the blame? They have done what they said they would do and offer large scale investment into players and they've kept their word. Comolli role as Director of Football is something I know virtually nothing about, but what I do know is that Comolli doesn't pick the team selection, doesn't organise formations and tactics, that's Kenny & Clark's job to do that. Passing the buck won't help matters, it's a bit like how some supporters used to blame Hicks and Gillett for Rafa's transfer dealings, his team selections and such, it just doesn't wash.

There are some supporters who go way over the top with their criticism of the manager and then there are those who never criticise the manager at all, they're just as bad in my eyes. Dalglish is responsible for much of what has happened this season in terms of performances and results. He knows Henderson is virtually rendered useless on the right wing and yet is persistant in playing him there. He knows Adam has been abysmal this season and yet is still adamant on playing him, the same with Downing and all the while he has Bellamy, Kuyt and Maxi waiting in the wings who are far better players. This is the man who had Aquilani and Meireles and got rid of them both. So let's not pretend that Kenny isn't largely responsible for what has been a largely dire season.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:22 pm

Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:16 pm wrote:Dalglish is ultimately the manager and so the responsibility rests on his shoulders, if he didn't want the likes of Adam, Carroll, Downing and Henderson brought into the club then I am sure he would have void his disapproval. Why should the owners get the blame? They have done what they said they would do and offer large scale investment into players and they've kept their word. Comolli role as Director of Football is something I know virtually nothing about, but what I do know is that Comolli doesn't pick the team selection, doesn't organise formations and tactics, that's Kenny & Clark's job to do that. Passing the buck won't help matters, it's a bit like how some supporters used to blame Hicks and Gillett for Rafa's transfer dealings, his team selections and such, it just doesn't wash.

There are some supporters who go way over the top with their criticism of the manager and then there are those who never criticise the manager at all, they're just as bad in my eyes. Dalglish is responsible for much of what has happened this season in terms of performances and results. He knows Henderson is virtually rendered useless on the right wing and yet is persistant in playing him there. He knows Adam has been abysmal this season and yet is still adamant on playing him, the same with Downing and all the while he has Bellamy, Kuyt and Maxi waiting in the wings who are far better players. This is the man who had Aquilani and Meireles and got rid of them both. So let's not pretend that Kenny isn't largely responsible for what has been a largely dire season.


kenny has made mistakes this season but there`s no way on earth the signings were all 100% his, thats what i object to, when fans say he`s wasted 100m he`s got to go. he was in the job about 2 weeks when carroll and suarez signed ffs. that was nearly 60m of this 100m he`s supposed to have wasted.
a part time manager given 60m to spend on whoever he wants? no chance, not many people thought kenny was going to get the job permanently back then, no way do they give him 60m to spend.
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Postby Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:26 pm

Kenny must have said some say in the players who have come in, there's no way in a month of Sunday's that Comolli would have been able to bring in his own targets without having some formal agreement with Kenny and if Kenny didn't have a say in the Carroll or Suarez's transfers than I bet you he had a big say in the summer signings. It was crystal clear that he was an avid fan of Charlie Adam for instance as I believe he had tried to sign him in January as well. And none of this negates away from the fact that Dalglish's formations and tactics have been questionable this season and that our players have ultimately been the biggest squanders of chances in the entire league.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:34 pm

Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:26 pm wrote:Kenny must have said some say in the players who have come in, there's no way in a month of Sunday's that Comolli would have been able to bring in his own targets without having some formal agreement with Kenny and if Kenny didn't have a say in the Carroll or Suarez's transfers than I bet you he had a big say in the summer signings. It was crystal clear that he was an avid fan of Charlie Adam for instance as I believe he had tried to sign him in January as well. And none of this negates away from the fact that Dalglish's formations and tactics have been questionable this season and that our players have ultimately been the biggest squanders of chances in the entire league.


i`m not denying dalglish has made mistakes regarding the line up`s etc, imo he should have stuck with suarez and carroll up front all season and let them play themselves into form but lets not forget gerrard was missing for the first half of the season, we lost lucas for practically the whole season and suarez was banned for 9 games and involved in the biggest race storm to hit sport in this country since the 80`s. he has had bad luck too.
maybe adam was his shout but he`s probably the only one, downing and henderson were signed because their stats were great, who does that sound like? dalglish or comoli?
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Postby Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:52 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:34 pm wrote:
i`m not denying dalglish has made mistakes regarding the line up`s etc, imo he should have stuck with suarez and carroll up front all season and let them play themselves into form but lets not forget gerrard was missing for the first half of the season, we lost lucas for practically the whole season and suarez was banned for 9 games and involved in the biggest race storm to hit sport in this country since the 80`s. he has had bad luck too.
maybe adam was his shout but he`s probably the only one, downing and henderson were signed because their stats were great, who does that sound like? dalglish or comoli?


But can Comolli just sign anyone without consulting Dalglish? I find it strange that the manager wouldn't be able to decide who comes into the club and who doesn't. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but if Comolli can sign whoever he wants regardless of the managers view point then our club is in serious trouble. I do hope you're barking up the wrong tree, either way the squad is more than capable of producing far better results than they have been in the last two months. 5 defeats in 6 games and 3 wins in 14 matches is just unacceptable, it's a through back to last season with Roy Hodgson as our manager. It does seem as though you are hell bent on defending Dalglish to the hilt, where by you do not accept any criticism of him, I do find that strange. Suarez being suspended for eight matches saw us beat Manchester United 2-1 in the FA Cup. Yes we have missed Gerrard and Lucas, but we seem to have won more matches without Gerrard than with him this season, how do you explain that? Dalglish is the man who has persisted in constantly playing Adam, Downing and Henderson over players like Maxi, Bellamy and Kuyt. He was the man who sanctioned the loan of Aquilani to AC Milan and Meireles' sale to Chelsea.

Dalglish warrants the criticism he is getting, but I do hope he gets things right next season. If there is one manager I really want to see do well, it's King Kenny.
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Postby RedAnt » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:29 pm

Alas, we sit at our computers and have nothing to write. Our minds create an opinion to fill the void. We often post it wether we agree with ourselves or not simply because we want to interact with others. We couldn't do that before t'internet arrived. Heck, I used to sit in front of my TV on a saturday and have text up, watching, watching, waiting for the scores to change. Ahhhh, those were the days. Everything's p*ss easy now, and that includes arm-chair criticism. A shame it's all so hollow but the internet aint going away any time soon I bet! To quote Stephen King "The world spins. Spin with it or get thrown off."

Those born or raised in the age of the internet are our future. Scarey huh? The morals of an internet football fan and an "old school?" football fan are very different from eachother. And of course many "internet generation fans" will also have learned all they know of players, managers, clubs, tactics and such from Football Manager and Champ Manager, or even worse, FIFA and Pro-Evolution.

I just wish that people remembered the definition of the word "support"
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:46 pm

Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:52 pm wrote:
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:34 pm wrote:
i`m not denying dalglish has made mistakes regarding the line up`s etc, imo he should have stuck with suarez and carroll up front all season and let them play themselves into form but lets not forget gerrard was missing for the first half of the season, we lost lucas for practically the whole season and suarez was banned for 9 games and involved in the biggest race storm to hit sport in this country since the 80`s. he has had bad luck too.
maybe adam was his shout but he`s probably the only one, downing and henderson were signed because their stats were great, who does that sound like? dalglish or comoli?


But can Comolli just sign anyone without consulting Dalglish? I find it strange that the manager wouldn't be able to decide who comes into the club and who doesn't. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but if Comolli can sign whoever he wants regardless of the managers view point then our club is in serious trouble. I do hope you're barking up the wrong tree, either way the squad is more than capable of producing far better results than they have been in the last two months. 5 defeats in 6 games and 3 wins in 14 matches is just unacceptable, it's a through back to last season with Roy Hodgson as our manager. It does seem as though you are hell bent on defending Dalglish to the hilt, where by you do not accept any criticism of him, I do find that strange. Suarez being suspended for eight matches saw us beat Manchester United 2-1 in the FA Cup. Yes we have missed Gerrard and Lucas, but we seem to have won more matches without Gerrard than with him this season, how do you explain that? Dalglish is the man who has persisted in constantly playing Adam, Downing and Henderson over players like Maxi, Bellamy and Kuyt. He was the man who sanctioned the loan of Aquilani to AC Milan and Meireles' sale to Chelsea.

Dalglish warrants the criticism he is getting, but I do hope he gets things right next season. If there is one manager I really want to see do well, it's King Kenny.


i accept dalglish is going to get criticism because he has made mistakes but i dont like the way everytime we go through a sticky spell with a manager suddenly the names of other coaches and managers start to be mentioned, this is LFC not chelsea fc.
i think dalglish was consulted about the players coming in but that still isnt the same as how players came to the club under rafa or evans or souness or whoever, i dont think kenny sat there looking over pages of stats and stats looking for his next signing, kenny is not from that generation of manager.
he obviously hasnt got carte blanche to sign who he wants, there is (or at least was) some sort of half @r$sed cod-baseball theory behind our purchases so why should kenny take 100% of the blame for the signings?
as for your arguments about kuyt and maxi thats just your opinion, kuyt has been in the side in the past and stunk the place out for months on end and maxi has gone missing in plenty of games as well, but suddenly they are the answer? bellamy obviously cant play every week because his knee`s are f**ked, thats why we got a player of his quality on a free. aquilani had fell out of love with england way before kenny got the job and meireles wanted out.
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Postby Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:08 pm

You provide not a modicum of evidence to support any of the seemingly outlandish claims in your post and you seem to think I'm going to take such squark at face value.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:28 pm

Boxscarf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:08 pm wrote:You provide not a modicum of evidence to support any of the seemingly outlandish claims in your post and you seem to think I'm going to take such squark at face value.


outlandish claims? what like that our owners went to speak to billy `moneyball` beane when they first bought the club and that he recommended damien comoli to them because beane knew comoli was a fan of his and into stats? you dont believe that?
why would they employ comoli if they were going to leave all the transfers to the manager?
when comoli was at spurs he was credited with signing bale etc but he has no say in transfer recruitment at this club?
you believe what you want mate.
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