Liverpool FC Forum

by **Penguins** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:58 am

I just think Kia believes WH will have no say and is underestimating the PL and what it meant to rip that agreement thay had in April.

"The circumstances surrounding Carlos Tevez's relationship with West Ham have been well documented in the media and footballing world," Joorabchian's lawyers said through a statement.

What the heck is that kind of statement?
PL will not accept WH just giving the player away without WH's consent and with them getting some of the fee.

It's a big difference with Masch since WH gave away the registration for him willingly.

Manure will get the player but WH will get some compensation I guess.

by **112-1077774096** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:59 am

well it seems clear to me, tevez iz expected back at west ham for training and is contracted to the hammers until 2010, and any deal has to be reached with west ham. if west ham now were to say the contract is with MSI (after saying that contract was ripped up to stay in the premier league) then i would imagine there will be more sanctions against west ham.

the simple fact is that according to the league west ham own the player and not the third party, this was the whole reason they were just fined and not docked points.

West Ham today threw Carlos Tevez's proposed move to Manchester United into turmoil by insisting there is no agreement in place for him to joining the champions.

Tevez's representatives have been suggesting the Argentina striker's move could be finalised within 24 hours and that he is to have a medical in Venezuela.

However West Ham say the 23-year-old is under contract for a further three years and no transfer can be made without their agreement.

Crucially, the Premier League are likely to back West Ham all the way in their stance.

Hammers chairman Eggert Magnusson said in a statement: "Carlos Tevez is a registered West Ham player, contracted to the club until June 2010.

"There is no agreement with West Ham for Carlos Tevez to leave the club and we expect him to return in time for next season's preparations.

"No decision on his future can be reached without the agreement of West Ham."

Tevez is currently in Venezuela on Copa America duty and played in Argentina's win over Paraguay last night.

The situation is further clouded by the fact United believe he is not under contract to West Ham any more and that they merely had an option to sign him for a further three years.

West Ham are adamant he is still under contract and will be so until 2010.

Tevez's camp had hoped to have set up a deal worth a possible £30million and although there had been close to an agreement with the Red, the Premier League have demanded that any transfer is handled by the Hammers and will block the move unless they are satisfied the transfer fee will go to West Ham.

The league accepted in April that West Ham had terminated all agreements with Tevez's agent Kia Joorabchian - and will keep a watchful eye on any transfer to ensure that the club keep their promise.

A Premier League spokesman said: "As far as we are concerned any deal to take Carlos Tevez away from West Ham has to be done directly with the club."

One possible avenue would be for West Ham to be paid a transfer fee and then agree a compensation figure with Joorabchian for breaching contracts with his company Media Sports Investments (MSI) when they terminated those agreements following their £5.5million fine in April for breaching Premier League rules.

It is understood though that the league would want a substantial chunk of the transfer fee to remain at West Ham rather than it all be handed over to MSI in compensation, otherwise they could be accused of merely covering up the third-party agreements that has caused so much controversy.

Joorabchian responded to Magnusson's statement by confirming he had been given permission by West Ham to hold discussions with other clubs.

He also confirmed that personal terms have been agreed between Tevez and the Barclays Premier League champions.

A statement released to PA Sport from Joorabchian's lawyers said: "The circumstances surrounding Carlos Tevez's relationship with West Ham have been well documented in the media and footballing world.

"We confirm that Carlos Tevez has, with the knowledge and permission of West Ham United Football Club, been in discussions with other clubs.

"Subsequently, personal terms have now been agreed with Manchester United Football Club.

"Carlos Tevez's representatives will work during the course of next week so that a move to Manchester United can be finalised as quickly as possible.

"The process for finalising the player's registration with Manchester United will be undertaken in accordance with appropriate procedures."

For their part, United are eager to distance themselves from any suggestion they have acted incorrectly, either in negotiating with the player or trying to push through a deal with Joorabchian.

United's frustration at getting so close to signing a major star without being able to finalise the transfer is obvious.

Unless a compromise can be brokered, the issue seems to be heading for the courts, to determine once and for all who owns Tevez's registration.

"We have acted in good faith," argued a United spokesman.

"Carlos Tevez was given permission to speak to us and do a deal."

by **Penguins** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:03 am

peewee wrote:well it seems clear to me, tevez iz expected back at west ham for training and is contracted to the hammers until 2010, and any deal has to be reached with west ham. if west ham now were to say the contract is with MSI (after saying that contract was ripped up to stay in the premier league) then i would imagine there will be more sanctions against west ham.

the simple fact is that according to the league west ham own the player and not the third party, this was the whole reason they were just fined and not docked points.

West Ham today threw Carlos Tevez's proposed move to Manchester United into turmoil by insisting there is no agreement in place for him to joining the champions.

Tevez's representatives have been suggesting the Argentina striker's move could be finalised within 24 hours and that he is to have a medical in Venezuela.

However West Ham say the 23-year-old is under contract for a further three years and no transfer can be made without their agreement.

Crucially, the Premier League are likely to back West Ham all the way in their stance.

Hammers chairman Eggert Magnusson said in a statement: "Carlos Tevez is a registered West Ham player, contracted to the club until June 2010.

"There is no agreement with West Ham for Carlos Tevez to leave the club and we expect him to return in time for next season's preparations.

"No decision on his future can be reached without the agreement of West Ham."

Tevez is currently in Venezuela on Copa America duty and played in Argentina's win over Paraguay last night.

The situation is further clouded by the fact United believe he is not under contract to West Ham any more and that they merely had an option to sign him for a further three years.

West Ham are adamant he is still under contract and will be so until 2010.

Tevez's camp had hoped to have set up a deal worth a possible £30million and although there had been close to an agreement with the Red, the Premier League have demanded that any transfer is handled by the Hammers and will block the move unless they are satisfied the transfer fee will go to West Ham.

The league accepted in April that West Ham had terminated all agreements with Tevez's agent Kia Joorabchian - and will keep a watchful eye on any transfer to ensure that the club keep their promise.

A Premier League spokesman said: "As far as we are concerned any deal to take Carlos Tevez away from West Ham has to be done directly with the club."

One possible avenue would be for West Ham to be paid a transfer fee and then agree a compensation figure with Joorabchian for breaching contracts with his company Media Sports Investments (MSI) when they terminated those agreements following their £5.5million fine in April for breaching Premier League rules.

It is understood though that the league would want a substantial chunk of the transfer fee to remain at West Ham rather than it all be handed over to MSI in compensation, otherwise they could be accused of merely covering up the third-party agreements that has caused so much controversy.

Joorabchian responded to Magnusson's statement by confirming he had been given permission by West Ham to hold discussions with other clubs.

He also confirmed that personal terms have been agreed between Tevez and the Barclays Premier League champions.

A statement released to PA Sport from Joorabchian's lawyers said: "The circumstances surrounding Carlos Tevez's relationship with West Ham have been well documented in the media and footballing world.

"We confirm that Carlos Tevez has, with the knowledge and permission of West Ham United Football Club, been in discussions with other clubs.

"Subsequently, personal terms have now been agreed with Manchester United Football Club.

"Carlos Tevez's representatives will work during the course of next week so that a move to Manchester United can be finalised as quickly as possible.

"The process for finalising the player's registration with Manchester United will be undertaken in accordance with appropriate procedures."

For their part, United are eager to distance themselves from any suggestion they have acted incorrectly, either in negotiating with the player or trying to push through a deal with Joorabchian.

United's frustration at getting so close to signing a major star without being able to finalise the transfer is obvious.

Unless a compromise can be brokered, the issue seems to be heading for the courts, to determine once and for all who owns Tevez's registration.

"We have acted in good faith," argued a United spokesman.

"Carlos Tevez was given permission to speak to us and do a deal."

That last part is bull$hit. Carlos Tevez has been given permission BY KIA AND MSI NOT WH.

That makes it a huge no no discussing terms with a 3rd party influence and not WH who holds his registration.
Good faith.... sure

And I don't believe for one second that WH has given MU permission like Kia says. Just his arrogance that shows there.
What he is saying is that WH should shut up cause they have no say. At least that is what he thinks.

by **puroresu** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:47 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/07/07/sfnbon107.xml

Carlos Tevez's move to Manchester United was plunged into fresh confusion last night after West Ham issued a statement insisting they control the Argentine striker.

This extraordinary act of brinkmanship came at the end of another day of frantic negotiations involving lawyers from West Ham, Manchester United, the Premier League and Kia Joorabchian, the player's agent and part owner.

Although it is almost certain a deal will eventually be struck which will allow Tevez to move to Old Trafford - he was said to be undergoing a medical yesterday - the confusion and controversy which has clouded the player's short career in England is set to continue for some weeks yet.

With the Premier League insisting that West Ham must conduct the transfer, the East London side have been forced to publicly assert their rights over Tevez.

That's because West Ham were only granted permission by the Premier League to continue playing Tevez at the end of last season after they ripped up third party agreements with Joorabchian and MSI and Just Sport Inc, the two companies who own the player's economic rights.

In boldly declaring that they hold the right to the player's registration, as well as three years of a four-year playing contract, West Ham are certain to now face legal action from Joorabchian.

Despite that West Ham chairman Eggert Magnusson said: "Carlos Tevez is a registered West Ham player, contracted to the club until June 2010. There is no agreement with West Ham for Carlos Tevez to leave the club and we expect him to return in time for next season's preparations."

A source for Joorabchian disputed West Ham's claims over the player last night, insisting that the club only had a one-year playing contract with a three-year option to renew.

But, while those terms might apply to some of the side agreements ripped up in April, those claims appear to be at odds with the findings of the independent commission who fined West Ham £5.5 million for breaking third party rules. That judgment stated clearly that Tevez had a four-year playing contract with West Ham.

The Joorabchian camp also claim Magnusson was offered the chance to renew the club's deal with Tevez for a fee of £40 million three weeks ago but that he declined, freeing the player to start talking to other clubs.

Joorabchian's lawyers said: "We confirm that Carlos Tevez has, with the knowledge and permission of West Ham United, been in discussions with other clubs. Subsequently, personal terms have now been agreed with Manchester United."

Only once the truth of this tangled contractual web is established by a judge will United be able to negotiate a deal for Tevez to join them.

But the Premier League have made it clear they will only sign off Tevez's move to United if West Ham handle the deal and get a slice of any transfer fee agreed.

Joorabchian may then have to sue for his share of the deal from West Ham.[B]

by **Ace Ventura** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:03 pm

This seems a strange one this, obviously like peewee said the Premier league think that West Ham own his registration and thats why they were only fined and not given a points docking penalty.
But if that is the case why didnt Joorabchian or MSI say anything at the time, surely you cant just rip up a contract ?
Nothing was said by MSI regarding this at the time though and that part doesnt make sense.

Tevez is a fantastic player but this could get very messy, when united already have a similar player in Rooney i dont see the point in them getting themselves involved in all of this.

by **Mick-o dywer** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:25 pm

look he is going to united, west ham cannot keep an unhappy player.... plain y simple......... he kept them up and sooner or later they realise he will leave, he will go ........ Absolute joke they are getting him by the way......

by **LFC2007** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:38 pm

peewee wrote:well it seems clear to me, tevez iz expected back at west ham for training and is contracted to the hammers until 2010, and any deal has to be reached with west ham. if west ham now were to say the contract is with MSI (after saying that contract was ripped up to stay in the premier league) then i would imagine there will be more sanctions against west ham.

the simple fact is that according to the league west ham own the player and not the third party, this was the whole reason they were just fined and not docked points.

There are two parts to it, the economic rights and the registration of the player. It's not very clear at all if you ask me.

The agreement with MSI was unilaterally ripped up by West Ham, not by MSI, and Joorabchian's lawyers then had to deal with the situation. If you think he hasn't got some kind of safety net in that agreement that protects his £14m investment and allows him to veto the registration then I think that would be a silly oversight.

The Premier League have not said they think West Ham own the player, that is not true. The economic rights of the player are owned by Joorabchian and West Ham will not get any fee, if there is one.

They were fined for breaking rule U.18 and B13. Rule U.18 does not say third party ownership is not allowed, it says another party cannot "materially influence its policies or performances". Obviously MSI have now worked around this rule. Otherwise how would Mascherano have moved to us, they clearly were satisfied in that case that MSI were legitimate.

That must have set a precedent for the Tevez move. I think MSI will have learned how to circumvent rule U.18 by now.

by **joko** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:21 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
peewee wrote:well it seems clear to me, tevez iz expected back at west ham for training and is contracted to the hammers until 2010, and any deal has to be reached with west ham. if west ham now were to say the contract is with MSI (after saying that contract was ripped up to stay in the premier league) then i would imagine there will be more sanctions against west ham.

the simple fact is that according to the league west ham own the player and not the third party, this was the whole reason they were just fined and not docked points.

There are two parts to it, the economic rights and the registration of the player. It's not very clear at all if you ask me.

The agreement with MSI was unilaterally ripped up by West Ham, not by MSI, and Joorabchian's lawyers then had to deal with the situation. If you think he hasn't got some kind of safety net in that agreement that protects his £14m investment and allows him to veto the registration then I think that would be a silly oversight.

The Premier League have not said they think West Ham own the player, that is not true. The economic rights of the player are owned by Joorabchian and West Ham will not get any fee, if there is one.

They were fined for breaking rule U.18 and B13. Rule U.18 does not say third party ownership is not allowed, it says another party cannot "materially influence its policies or performances". Obviously MSI have now worked around this rule. Otherwise how would Mascherano have moved to us, they clearly were satisfied in that case that MSI were legitimate.

That must have set a precedent for the Tevez move. I think MSI will have learned how to circumvent rule U.18 by now.

i hate rule U18 and B13
i love rule no UB40

red red whyyyyyyne

(sorry, too much wine...)

by **destro** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:21 pm

Just found this on The Times website

Who owns Carlos Tévez?

West Ham United hold the player’s registration. Kia Joorabchian’s Media Sports Investments firm owns the economic rights to the forward.

Does Tévez’s transfer to Manchester United mirror Javier Mascherano’s move to Liverpool in January?

Yes and no.

How do they differ?

Liverpool signed Mascherano on an 18-month loan – at the end of which they have the option to buy the player permanently – after West Ham ripped up the player’s registration and gave up any rights to him to facilitate the transfer. Joorabchian, who owns the economic rights to Mascherano as well as Tévez, was paid £1.5 million by Liverpool as part of the deal.

United have agreed a two-year loan deal for Tévez, with the option to sign the forward permanently at the end of that period, but West Ham cannot simply give up the rights to the player in this case to facilitate the transfer.

Why not?

After the verdict delivered by the independent commission into the transfer on April 27, when West Ham were fined £5.5 million, the club were given three choices. Either they stop playing Tévez, they bring the third-party agreement with Joorabchian into line with FA Premier League rule U18 so Joorabchian could not materially influence the club’s policy, or, finally, terminate its agreement with Joorabchian on the proviso that they would continue to behave in that manner and assert their rights over the player.

So what did they do?

Given that Tévez was central to the club’s hopes of staying in the Premiership, West Ham decided to terminate their agreement with Joorabchian and assert their rights over the player. As part of the agreement, West Ham would effectively have to answer to the Premier League regarding any future dealings with Tévez. Even if they wanted to, they could not simply terminate the player’s contract, but the decision left the club open to a legal action from Joorabchian for breach of contract.

So what has to happen to satisfy the Premier League before Tévez can join Manchester United?

United must strike a deal with West Ham for Tévez. That means that any fee – thought to be £6 million over the two years – would have to be paid to West Ham and not Joorabchian.

But couldn’t West Ham just receive a fee from United and then give it all to Joorabchian as compensation?

No. The Premier League would want to see that a “significant portion” of the transfer fee remained with West Ham and, given that it has power to scrutinise transactions over £25,000, that would be easy. Otherwise, it could be accused of trying to cover up the third-party agreements that caused so much controversy in the first place.

But what about Joorbachian? Won’t he try to sue West Ham if he does not receive some compensation for a player he holds the economic rights for?

He could, but it is likely that, somewhere down the line, West Ham will pay him a compensation fee in an out-of-court settlement, although that will have to be handled carefully.

by **joko** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:29 am

i read tevez has a twin brother

by **heimdall** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:51 am

joko wrote:i read tevez has a twin brother

he sure is an ugly b8stard isn't he! :Oo:

Shame we couldn't get him ourselves but in Rafa I trust, I think Torres will be better for us, the way we play. I'm still not sure how Tevez will fit in with manure though.

by **puroresu** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:50 am

Carlos Tevez claims he has promised Sir Alex Ferguson he will join Manchester United.

The Argentine striker is determined to do all he can to push through his move to Old Trafford.

The completion of the switch to the Premier League champions has stalled with West Ham arguing the forward cannot leave Upton Park without their approval.

But Tevez wants to honour his pledge to Sir Alex and join his side.

He told The People: "Through my backers I have given my word to Mr Ferguson. They have told him I'll be at Manchester United next season and once I make a promise I don't go back on it.

"There isn't a player who would turn down this opportunity and the negotiations are too far advanced to go back now.

"I have been open and honest with West Ham every step of the way and I hope the fans understand."

Tevez also claims he only decided to quit Upton Park after The Hammers decided not to make his deal permanent.

"My representatives sat down with West Ham at the end of the season and once it became clear they were not going to sign me, they gave me permission to talk to other clubs so I am surprised this is causing such a stink," the Argentine said.

Manchester United believe their move for Tevez will not contravene Premier League rules because it will be no different to Liverpool's January swoop for Tevez's compatriot Javier Mascherano.

But Reds chief executive Rick Parry has questioned the need for loan deals in English football's top flight

Former Premier League supremo Parry believes the loan system could be abused and thinks clubs are wealthy enough to make the practice unnecessary.

He said: "When I was at the Premier League we always took the view that, given the money in the Premier League, you didn't need loans - you should be able to stand on your own two feet.

"There is enough money around to make transfer deals permanent.

"That stood over 10 years. It's only in the last two or three years that we have had the loan system in the Premier League."

by **heimdall** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:29 pm

puroresu wrote:Carlos Tevez claims he has promised Sir Alex Ferguson he will join Manchester United.

The Argentine striker is determined to do all he can to push through his move to Old Trafford.

The completion of the switch to the Premier League champions has stalled with West Ham arguing the forward cannot leave Upton Park without their approval.

But Tevez wants to honour his pledge to Sir Alex and join his side.

He told The People: "Through my backers I have given my word to Mr Ferguson. They have told him I'll be at Manchester United next season and once I make a promise I don't go back on it.

"There isn't a player who would turn down this opportunity and the negotiations are too far advanced to go back now.

"I have been open and honest with West Ham every step of the way and I hope the fans understand."

Tevez also claims he only decided to quit Upton Park after The Hammers decided not to make his deal permanent.

"My representatives sat down with West Ham at the end of the season and once it became clear they were not going to sign me, they gave me permission to talk to other clubs so I am surprised this is causing such a stink," the Argentine said.

Manchester United believe their move for Tevez will not contravene Premier League rules because it will be no different to Liverpool's January swoop for Tevez's compatriot Javier Mascherano.

But Reds chief executive Rick Parry has questioned the need for loan deals in English football's top flight

Former Premier League supremo Parry believes the loan system could be abused and thinks clubs are wealthy enough to make the practice unnecessary.

He said: "When I was at the Premier League we always took the view that, given the money in the Premier League, you didn't need loans - you should be able to stand on your own two feet.

"There is enough money around to make transfer deals permanent.

"That stood over 10 years. It's only in the last two or three years that we have had the loan system in the Premier League."

ermm yes My Parry but aren't we loaning Mascherano ourselves!!!!

by **grayghost** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:51 pm

We should have got in there and signed Tevez when we had the chance such a big loss to us. could have been great for us now he will just be great for the mancs.

by **maguskwt** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:36 pm

heimdall wrote:
puroresu wrote:Carlos Tevez claims he has promised Sir Alex Ferguson he will join Manchester United.

The Argentine striker is determined to do all he can to push through his move to Old Trafford.

The completion of the switch to the Premier League champions has stalled with West Ham arguing the forward cannot leave Upton Park without their approval.

But Tevez wants to honour his pledge to Sir Alex and join his side.

He told The People: "Through my backers I have given my word to Mr Ferguson. They have told him I'll be at Manchester United next season and once I make a promise I don't go back on it.

"There isn't a player who would turn down this opportunity and the negotiations are too far advanced to go back now.

"I have been open and honest with West Ham every step of the way and I hope the fans understand."

Tevez also claims he only decided to quit Upton Park after The Hammers decided not to make his deal permanent.

"My representatives sat down with West Ham at the end of the season and once it became clear they were not going to sign me, they gave me permission to talk to other clubs so I am surprised this is causing such a stink," the Argentine said.

Manchester United believe their move for Tevez will not contravene Premier League rules because it will be no different to Liverpool's January swoop for Tevez's compatriot Javier Mascherano.

But Reds chief executive Rick Parry has questioned the need for loan deals in English football's top flight

Former Premier League supremo Parry believes the loan system could be abused and thinks clubs are wealthy enough to make the practice unnecessary.

He said: "When I was at the Premier League we always took the view that, given the money in the Premier League, you didn't need loans - you should be able to stand on your own two feet.

"There is enough money around to make transfer deals permanent.

"That stood over 10 years. It's only in the last two or three years that we have had the loan system in the Premier League."

ermm yes My Parry but aren't we loaning Mascherano ourselves!!!!

precisely... what a dumb :censored:

...

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