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Liverpool Football Club - The Rumour Mill

Postby Eagle » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:28 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:03 pm wrote:
Eagle » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:04 pm wrote:But we are not Man Utd are we? We didn’t spend the 90s commercialising the f*ck out of the club and end up bringing in far more revenue than other clubs. The Fergie era was built on the patience to build long term foundations, a good manager, a good academy, and strong financials as a result of ownership who increased revenues, expanded the stadium, and ensured the club lived within its means. Sound familiar?

FSG have been far from perfect but as time has passed they have been making more good decisions than bad. They have turned the club around behind the scenes and every penny that the club has generated has been invested back into the club. To suggest they are desperate to cash in on our best players is bollox.


The top players aren't soft, they know when a club is genuinely pulling out all the stops to win things and that's why so many of our better players have left.
As I have said FSG aren't the worst owners in the world and I will be grateful to them until my dying day for deciding to stay at Anfield but I am under no illusions about why they are here - they are here to make money, pure and simple.
They are baseball people, they didn't grow up watching footy or kicking a ball around, the very things that most fans regard as being wrong with the modern game (obscene wealth etc) are the very things which attracted them to the sport in the first place. If the money would have been in Cricket or Rugby that's where they would be now. They followed the money trail and it led them here.


And what's their plan to make money? "Cashing in" on our best players with that money going back into the club? How does that make them money?
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:33 pm

Eagle » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:28 pm wrote:
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:03 pm wrote:
Eagle » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:04 pm wrote:But we are not Man Utd are we? We didn’t spend the 90s commercialising the f*ck out of the club and end up bringing in far more revenue than other clubs. The Fergie era was built on the patience to build long term foundations, a good manager, a good academy, and strong financials as a result of ownership who increased revenues, expanded the stadium, and ensured the club lived within its means. Sound familiar?

FSG have been far from perfect but as time has passed they have been making more good decisions than bad. They have turned the club around behind the scenes and every penny that the club has generated has been invested back into the club. To suggest they are desperate to cash in on our best players is bollox.


The top players aren't soft, they know when a club is genuinely pulling out all the stops to win things and that's why so many of our better players have left.
As I have said FSG aren't the worst owners in the world and I will be grateful to them until my dying day for deciding to stay at Anfield but I am under no illusions about why they are here - they are here to make money, pure and simple.
They are baseball people, they didn't grow up watching footy or kicking a ball around, the very things that most fans regard as being wrong with the modern game (obscene wealth etc) are the very things which attracted them to the sport in the first place. If the money would have been in Cricket or Rugby that's where they would be now. They followed the money trail and it led them here.


And what's their plan to make money? "Cashing in" on our best players with that money going back into the club? How does that make them money?


So you reckon FSG are here because they are altruistic billionaires who just want Liverpool to win things?
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Postby ethanr » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:38 am

Sports teams aren’t run to make money every year anymore. They may make some, but Investors buy sports teams, grow them, and at some point sell them. I don’t think fsg has taken much, if any money from the club. They paid 440 million or whatever it was for them, and could now sell the club for what? 1.5 billion maybe? Look at sports teams in the US. You have nfl teams and nba teams who were bought for $100 million within the last decade being sold for over $1 billion. I know the US is different, but just look at the changes in the pl the last few years. Tv deals and increase in competition. Massive increase in player costs. The value of clubs is only going up. Eventually another investor, or some oil money will come in and buy the club. Probably between $2-5 billion depending when FSG decide to sell. It’ll have taken them 10-15 years, but they’ll have multiplied their money many times over. FSG understands that the more successful the club is, the more fans the club will have. The more money coming in to invest to make the club even better. It all leads to an eventual sale. The more successful the club is during that time, the more money they get.
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Postby kazza » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:29 am

Good post

I don't for a minute think that the owners are angels coming from heaven to help us win trophies but I can see their viewpoint is a long term one. If they wish to grow the team so that in 5-10 more years the club is an attractive proposition that can only help the supporters. We will be in great financial shape, have top end players, a stadium that competes with the best in the PL and a high international profile.

When you consider how they got the team and the transformation of the club it is safe to assume that they are clever owners, add to that that they don't seem to be driven by ego or self promotion and remain in the background unless to support the manager I'd say we are in good hands.

I read somewhere that ManUre carry the most debt of any team in the world ( something like 600 million), that does not seem stable in the long term. I'd much rather be us, living within our means. Living within your means may not look as good in the short term but certainly pays off in the long term.
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Postby Eagle » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:04 am

So you're not going to answer my question yakka and instead ask me a question. I'll ask for a the third time. Please explain how cashing in on our best players makes FSG money if that money is being reinvested in the club.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:42 am

Eagle » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:04 am wrote:So you're not going to answer my question yakka and instead ask me a question. I'll ask for a the third time. Please explain how cashing in on our best players makes FSG money if that money is being reinvested in the club.


They make a fortune from Sky alone, what is it £90m a year now? That's without factoring in all the other things like CL money and lucrative sponsorship deals. If they can keep the nett spend on players down by selling players and reinvesting that money back in the squad (effectively getting the team to pay for itself) then they are quids in.
When they first arrived here they spoke about wanting to replicate the Arsenal model, they didn't admire the model of teams who were actually winning things, they admired the model of Arsenal who were qualifying for the CL year in year out with a minimum outlay.
Given we have the lowest nett spend of any team in the prem over the last 2 years (actually making a profit in the transfer market) and this at a time when the Sky money significantly increased it looks like they are well on the way to achieving their goal. Before they went on a spending spree last summer we actually didn't buy anyone in 2 of the previous 3 windows, remember when Jurgen had us top of the league and everyone was imploring them to bring in a couple of players because we knew we were losing Mane and Matip to the ACN and Coutinho was injured? Even when we were top they didn't bring anyone in, not even a loan signing. It wouldn't surprise me if last summer's splurge only happened because they knew Phil was going.
Now you answer my question, do you think the owners are here because they are altruistic billionaires who just want us to win things?
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Postby Eagle » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:32 am

You still haven’t explained how selling Coutinho makes FSG more money. Your incoherent ramblings about increased revenue streams for the club doesn’t answer the question. Increased revenue streams and money from player sales isn’t being used to pay for a leveraged buyout like the Glazers and FSG haven’t taken a single dividend like Kroenke does at Arsenal. You want to know how much cash the shareholders of FSG have personally earned in their 7 years of charge so far? £0. That’s right, nothing.

Did they take over the club because they thought it was a good investment opportunity? Of course they did. They saw a club that had been run poorly for 20 years and had fallen badly behind their rivals off and on the field. They thought they could do better on the commercial side of things. They thought they could do better with stadium expansion. They thought they could do better with ensuring the club generates money to use on the football side of things. And they are largely doing all this.

You know how they will make money from the club? By making the club successful on and off the pitch and giving the club the means to do this long term. By making the club self-sufficient in the same way as Man Utd, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, etc. And what’s wrong with that? So what if they sell the club on for a large profit down the line having expanded the stadium, improved the training facilities, improved revenue streams that can be used to fund player purchases and wages, and put us back amongst Europe’s elite. I’m sorry that it upsets you that neither of the 2 confirmed interested parties when we were publicly up for sale were sugar daddies who were willing to throw their own money away and change things over night. But the next best things it to have responsible owners who build for the long term. And this is what FSG are.

And who said FSG stopped Klopp from buying players in the January windows? He said himself that he can buy if he wants to but he can’t find what he wants as January is tough. So on what basis can you put the blame at FSG’s feet? Are you saying that Klopp is not telling the truth when he says these things.

The original point is that you said the owners are chomping at the bit to “cash in” on our best players. This is bollox. The only players that have left are those that pushed hard for a move. If Coutinho had made it clear that he was happy at Liverpool but would go if we wanted to accept the £150mil offer from Barcelona, he would still be here.
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Postby Eagle » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:36 am

Also, sorry for derailing this thread. Should probably be in the FSG thread.
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Postby Reg » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:51 am

Eagle » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:32 pm wrote:You still haven’t explained how selling Coutinho makes FSG more money. Your incoherent ramblings about increased revenue streams for the club doesn’t answer the question.


Yakka's dancing round the issue better than John Travolta.

Come on Yakka, enlighten the great unwashed!   :laugh:  :laugh:
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:58 pm

Eagle » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:32 am wrote:You still haven’t explained how selling Coutinho makes FSG more money. Your incoherent ramblings about increased revenue streams for the club doesn’t answer the question. Increased revenue streams and money from player sales isn’t being used to pay for a leveraged buyout like the Glazers and FSG haven’t taken a single dividend like Kroenke does at Arsenal. You want to know how much cash the shareholders of FSG have personally earned in their 7 years of charge so far? £0. That’s right, nothing.

Did they take over the club because they thought it was a good investment opportunity? Of course they did. They saw a club that had been run poorly for 20 years and had fallen badly behind their rivals off and on the field. They thought they could do better on the commercial side of things. They thought they could do better with stadium expansion. They thought they could do better with ensuring the club generates money to use on the football side of things. And they are largely doing all this.

You know how they will make money from the club? By making the club successful on and off the pitch and giving the club the means to do this long term. By making the club self-sufficient in the same way as Man Utd, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, etc. And what’s wrong with that? So what if they sell the club on for a large profit down the line having expanded the stadium, improved the training facilities, improved revenue streams that can be used to fund player purchases and wages, and put us back amongst Europe’s elite. I’m sorry that it upsets you that neither of the 2 confirmed interested parties when we were publicly up for sale were sugar daddies who were willing to throw their own money away and change things over night. But the next best things it to have responsible owners who build for the long term. And this is what FSG are.

And who said FSG stopped Klopp from buying players in the January windows? He said himself that he can buy if he wants to but he can’t find what he wants as January is tough. So on what basis can you put the blame at FSG’s feet? Are you saying that Klopp is not telling the truth when he says these things.

The original point is that you said the owners are chomping at the bit to “cash in” on our best players. This is bollox. The only players that have left are those that pushed hard for a move. If Coutinho had made it clear that he was happy at Liverpool but would go if we wanted to accept the £150mil offer from Barcelona, he would still be here.


So amid all that waffle you admit that they are here to make money. Fine, we got there in the end.
As I said they are Americans who grew up watching baseball, they had no interest in footy and would still have no interest in footy if there wasn't obscene amounts of cash swilling around at the top of the game. The chance to make money attracted them here, not the chance to win silverware, in fact they sacked Kenny Dalglish after he took us to the 2 domestic cup finals in one season, Ian Ayre basically said in an interview at the time that the owners weren't interested in the domestic Cups because there was no money in them.
They sold Coutinho at the first opportunity it became politically acceptable, Coutinho even thanked FSG for not going back on their word in the summer so all that charade about him not being for sale and the club not returning Barca's calls was purely for us suckers.
Barcelona say that they were surprised how keen we were to sell Phil, Nike prematurely release a kit with Phil's name on it (something a company like Nike wouldn't do in 5 minutes or on a whim) and Phil publically thanks FSG for standing by their promise to sell him in the summer and you still think the club was bounced into it against their will in January?
When you are in the business of making money some deals are just too good to turn down, buy a player for £8m and sell him for £140m? There was no way they were going to turn down a deal like that.
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Postby maguskwt » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:48 pm

Eagle » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:32 am wrote:You still haven’t explained how selling Coutinho makes FSG more money. Your incoherent ramblings about increased revenue streams for the club doesn’t answer the question. Increased revenue streams and money from player sales isn’t being used to pay for a leveraged buyout like the Glazers and FSG haven’t taken a single dividend like Kroenke does at Arsenal. You want to know how much cash the shareholders of FSG have personally earned in their 7 years of charge so far? £0. That’s right, nothing.

Did they take over the club because they thought it was a good investment opportunity? Of course they did. They saw a club that had been run poorly for 20 years and had fallen badly behind their rivals off and on the field. They thought they could do better on the commercial side of things. They thought they could do better with stadium expansion. They thought they could do better with ensuring the club generates money to use on the football side of things. And they are largely doing all this.

You know how they will make money from the club? By making the club successful on and off the pitch and giving the club the means to do this long term. By making the club self-sufficient in the same way as Man Utd, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, etc. And what’s wrong with that? So what if they sell the club on for a large profit down the line having expanded the stadium, improved the training facilities, improved revenue streams that can be used to fund player purchases and wages, and put us back amongst Europe’s elite. I’m sorry that it upsets you that neither of the 2 confirmed interested parties when we were publicly up for sale were sugar daddies who were willing to throw their own money away and change things over night. But the next best things it to have responsible owners who build for the long term. And this is what FSG are.

And who said FSG stopped Klopp from buying players in the January windows? He said himself that he can buy if he wants to but he can’t find what he wants as January is tough. So on what basis can you put the blame at FSG’s feet? Are you saying that Klopp is not telling the truth when he says these things.

The original point is that you said the owners are chomping at the bit to “cash in” on our best players. This is bollox. The only players that have left are those that pushed hard for a move. If Coutinho had made it clear that he was happy at Liverpool but would go if we wanted to accept the £150mil offer from Barcelona, he would still be here.

I thought yakka already explained this by saying how FSG controlled the expenditure on players?  :laugh:
Look, like ethanr mentioned they are not here to make money yearly, they are an american sports investment company who will make the club look very favourable for a buy out and pocket large sums of money. The leaked e-mails already confirmed this. You cannot blame those of us who feel abit skeptical with their intentions because the path to success on the field is not equivalent to the path to make the club favourable for a buy out like how you conveniently put it. There was an article in the echo that after 7 years, FSG has spent 23.4 million on average per season players. This amount of investment in players is by no means a formula for success on the field. And after 7 years we haven't won anything, nothing. Like I mentioned, Klopp is FSG's saving grace because he is one of the rare managers who can make the team better within FSG's limits. They chanced upon Klopp on pure luck (Klopp happened to be a romantic who didn't want to joing other big money clubs). How much longer do we need to wait? I myself do not want LFC to turn into another Arsenal. Already Arsenal is seen as a stepping stone club by players or the other players in the arsenal team are not seen as winners. Now Arsenal has all the sustainability and self-sufficiency they wanted and their reputation is forever damaged. They are now even performing less than us. How long will it take for Arsenal to repair this reputation and go back to winning ways? Man United did it both, investing in the club infrastructure as well as investing in players. There is no doubt that they were helped by their golden generation of players from their academy scholes, beckham, giggs, the nevilles. But after that generation got older, they invested heavily in players until this day.
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Postby 7_Kewell » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:43 pm

FSG are here to win things AND make money.  Just like 99% of other professional football clubs.  Why is that so hard to understand?  ???
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Postby maguskwt » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:51 pm

7_Kewell » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:43 pm wrote:FSG are here to win things AND make money.  Just like 99% of other professional football clubs.  Why is that so hard to understand?  ???

It'll be good if that is the case... as it stands it's a single league cup in seven years...
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Postby 7_Kewell » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:54 pm

maguskwt » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:51 pm wrote:
7_Kewell » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:43 pm wrote:FSG are here to win things AND make money.  Just like 99% of other professional football clubs.  Why is that so hard to understand?  ???

It'll be good if that is the case... as it stands it's a single league cup in seven years...

And when the took over we were bankrupt and mid-table. Given the investment on and off the pitch, I'm happy that this is the case. Otherwise they would be looking to sell Salah now and wouldn't have sanctioned the VVD transfer in January. Instead they'd have waited until the summer, with Southampton in the Championship...
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Postby maguskwt » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:47 pm

7_Kewell » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:54 pm wrote:
maguskwt » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:51 pm wrote:
7_Kewell » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:43 pm wrote:FSG are here to win things AND make money.  Just like 99% of other professional football clubs.  Why is that so hard to understand?  ???

It'll be good if that is the case... as it stands it's a single league cup in seven years...

And when the took over we were bankrupt and mid-table. Given the investment on and off the pitch, I'm happy that this is the case. Otherwise they would be looking to sell Salah now and wouldn't have sanctioned the VVD transfer in January. Instead they'd have waited until the summer, with Southampton in the Championship...

Salah has been here a little over half a season... that's what some of us are saying let's see what happens...
VVD? Coutinho money...
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