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Liverpool Football Club - The Rumour Mill

Postby metalhead » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:40 pm

aCe' » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:15 pm wrote:
maguskwt » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:50 am wrote:
Reg » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:17 am wrote:How many clubs NEED to spend £100m on a attacking player from a vanity point of view? RM, Barca, PSG, maybe City... that's all.

So if RM come offering £150m or £200m for Mo in 12 months we might very well sell because we know we can replace him with a young, hungry up and coming Naby Keita style for 40-50-60 million. LFC don't need to spend £100m, young guns WANT to come to us, we don't need to go pay top shelf prices.

Reg, you do know it's not easy to find younger players that can develop into the real deals. We've been doing that for a decade. The recent successes in players like Mane, Salah, Firmino is down to Klopp. That's where I give alot of credit to Klopp. Naby Keita im today's market is easily worth 100 million. Again credit must go to Klopp and the executives for sealing that deal in advance!


Why is Keita worth 100 mill ? Not a single good reason for that imo.

Only point I have on this whole transfer business is this, the likes of City and Utd buy players who are ready to step in and help them challenge for titles. It doesnt matter if you are 22, 29, or 31 and it doesnt matter what the price tag is. If there is a player who is available who improves the starting 11 they'll be interested in signing them. Our approach is completely different and puts us at a disadvantage on a number of different fronts. Over the past 3 seasons, those 2 sides have pulled away from us in terms of readiness to do whatever it takes to go out and compete and the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal are now trying to catch up.

Even if we finish 2nd this season and Tottenham finish 3rd, the chances of both of us winning a title have taken a massive hit with what Utd and City are doing imo.

The minute Bale, Kane, Neymar, etc. become available they'll look to snatch them and pull further away.



Sure, but you can compete with that. Like what we did with Salah and Mane we didn't spend big to get them here and they proved to be 8 or 9/10 players. Keita might be an 8/10 player and we if we can at least have 9 or 10 players who are 8/10 then we have a huge shot to winning the league. Man Utd can spend getting Sanchez on 350k/week because they are the richest club in the whole world with double our revenues. All we need is to match them, but it's difficult. We might not catch Man Utd's spending and commercial success but at least we can try to compete with them in the footballing front.

If we convinvced Leon Goretzka to join us then this summer we would have purchased 2 capable players to make us title challengers. Hopefully Klopp can find another Lewandowski or Gundogan. I really hope we get Pulisic to be honest, he's great and he will improve our XI.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:17 pm

Reg » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:17 am wrote:How many clubs NEED to spend £100m on a attacking player from a vanity point of view? RM, Barca, PSG, maybe City... that's all.

So if RM come offering £150m or £200m for Mo in 12 months we might very well sell because we know we can replace him with a young, hungry up and coming Naby Keita style for 40-50-60 million. LFC don't need to spend £100m, young guns WANT to come to us, we don't need to go pay top shelf prices.


Are you an accountant by any chance Reg? Because you are talking like an accountant, you are certainly not speaking like a fan.
Need I remind you that we have won the grand total of 1 League Cup in the last 10 years, the way you are going on you'd swear we'd won the last 5 league titles.
Yes the likes of Salah etc have been good signings but have you looked at the league table recently, we are 18 points behind the leaders....18 points!! Whatsmore that gap will probably be even wider come the end of May.
We are nowhere near good enough to win the title atm and the odds of bridging that gap by selling our best players and finding gems in the market is practically nil.
Yes paying £100m for a player is obscene but I remember people saying the same thing when Forest spent £1m on Trevor Francis, the same thing was said when Spurs spent £100,000 on Jimmy Greaves, it's all relative, when we sold Kevin Keegan to Hamburg in 1977 we broke the British transfer record by signing Kenny Dalglish, 3 months later we broke the transfer record for a player moving between 2 English clubs when we signed Graeme Souness, 12 months or so later we paid a world record fee (world record) for a U21 player when we signed Ian Rush.
Those signings in the late 70's set us up for the 80's, even then we still topped up the squad like when we broke the British transfer record again in 81 when we signed Mark Lawrenson.
It doesn't matter what era you are in the top players cost money, if you want to win trophies you need those top players, yes you can achieve relative success by doing it on the cheap but sustained success costs money, it's nothing new, it's been the same since 1888, yes the amounts of money have changed but the principle hasn't.
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Postby Reg » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:27 pm

Good post Yakka.
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Postby Eagle » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:31 pm

If players want to leave then they'll leave. It happened with the likes of Rush and Keegan and it happened with Coutinho.  And it will happen again and again it won't be because we want the money. We just need to get better at brining in quality players and we've certainly improved in this area.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:37 pm

Eagle » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:31 pm wrote:If players want to leave then they'll leave. It happened with the likes of Rush and Keegan and it happened with Coutinho.  And it will happen again and again it won't be because we want the money. We just need to get better at brining in quality players and we've certainly improved in this area.


Well for a start we used the departures of Keegan and Rush to drastically re-model the side, replacing 1 outgoing quality player with 2 or 3 incoming ones. The club actually signed Ian Rush's direct replacement (John Aldridge) while Rush was still at the club, the pair played together for 3 or 4 months before Rush left for Juventus, that's called forward planning, these days we roll the dice (the club knew Coutinho was leaving for months but didnt lift a finger to even attempt to replace him).
There is no way on earth Coutinho would have been allowed to leave mid season under Bob Paisley, Joe Fagan or a young Kenny, and when the club did finally let him leave his replacement would have been here the moment he left, if not before.
That's why we won so much back then and why we have won so little in recent years, back then the club made good decisions, lots of them, these days we let our best players go then gamble.
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Postby Eagle » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:24 pm

But Rush wasn't faking injury and his agents weren't using the media to slur the manager. In today's game if players want out they normally get out. End of the day Klopp sanctioned his exit because he thought it was for the best. Personally I'm going to enjoy the Champions League run and the rest of the league season but you go ahead and spend the rest of the season crying your eyes out and spamming every thread on the forum with references to Coutinho. Jurgen's army is on the march and quality players are queueing up to join us!
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:18 am

Eagle » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:24 pm wrote:But Rush wasn't faking injury and his agents weren't using the media to slur the manager. In today's game if players want out they normally get out. End of the day Klopp sanctioned his exit because he thought it was for the best. Personally I'm going to enjoy the Champions League run and the rest of the league season but you go ahead and spend the rest of the season crying your eyes out and spamming every thread on the forum with references to Coutinho. Jurgen's army is on the march and quality players are queueing up to join us!


It's 28 years since we last won the title, a person would have to be middle aged now (mid 30's+) to even remember us winning it. This is the longest period in our 125+ year history that we've gone without a league title, even in the pre Shankly era when we dropped down a division we never went this long without a title win. People go on about the dark days of the 1930's and 1950's, those generation never saw a title drought like this one.
Look at the clubs that have won it since 1990 - Manchester United, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Leeds United, Blackburn Rovers and Leicester City.
You know why a club of our size and stature isn't on that list? Because of bad decisions, over the last 28 years this club has made a succession of poor decisions at crucial times. Going by what happened this January nothing has changed, this club is still making poor decision at crucial times.
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Postby Reg » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:08 am

Liverpool could stick with Karius instead of buying a £70m goalkeeper this summer  :ghostface: 

Chris Bascombe
15 FEBRUARY 2018 • 10:30PM

Jurgen Klopp is ready to abandon plans to pursue Roma goalkeeper Allison as Loris Karius’ hopes of establishing himself as the long-term Liverpool number one have increased.

Liverpool are likely to need another keeper at the end of the season as the recently demoted Simon Mignolet is sure to seek first team football elsewhere. But with Karius showing encouraging form since being confirmed as undisputed first choice, a massive outlay on a new keeper is increasingly unlikely.

Liverpool have been left in no doubt how much it would cost to secure Brazilian international Allison, his Italian club suggesting only a world record fee would trigger negotiations.

Klopp is not interested at values suggested to be as much as £70 million, especially as his instinct is to give Karius a prolonged chance to secure his position.

Liverpool’s previous interest in Allison is further complicated because Mohamed Salah’s extraordinary exploits have prompted Roma – his former club - to bemoan his cut-price sale to last summer.

Liverpool bought Salah for an initial £35 million, although that could rise based on several clauses.

Roma’s Director of Football, Monchi, appears to have acknowledged he was out-negotiated when agreeing the sale last summer. The timing of the deal, completed last June, preceded Neymar’s move to PSG from Barcelona when the transfer market became hyper-inflated.

“I think the price could’ve been better for Salah, but it did give us the possibility of making other moves,” said Monchi.

“When I arrived, the Liverpool offer for Salah was €32m plus €3m in bonuses. In today’s football, players go wherever they want to.

“At the end of the day, we could reach €50m with bonuses, but at that moment we had to sell and that was an important option. The Neymar and Kylian Mbappé transfers changed the market, but at that moment it was necessary that we sell.”

Stung by criticism of the Salah deal, Roma would be more steadfast in their bargaining should Liverpool target more of their players.

If Karius replicates the encouraging form of recent weeks, Klopp is more likely to be searching for competition rather than a direct replacement for the rejuvenated keeper.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... oalkeeper/
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Postby kazza » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:25 am

Different take


Liverpool are trying to sign Roma goalkeeper Alisson ahead of the summer, Sky Sports News understands.

Sky sources in Italy have said discussions are underway and at a very early stage via an Italian intermediary.

They also say Liverpool made an inquiry into signing the 26-year-old during the January transfer window and the club hope to persuade Roma to sell the player in the coming weeks.

However, it is understood Roma believe Alisson is one of the best in his position in Europe and value him at £62m (€70m) - potentially a world-record price for a goalkeeper.

It was also reported in Italy last week that they have been trying to get him to sign a new contract, with the anticipation of more interest from some of Europe's top clubs in the summer.

Real Madrid and Paris Saint-Germain are just two top teams expected to be in the market for goalkeepers, so Liverpool are attempting to beat potential competition.

Alisson - a Brazil international with 22 caps - is understood to be the Merseyside club's top target among five goalkeepers they are interested in from across Europe.

He is highly rated and was recently described by his goalkeeper coach as the "Messi of goalkeepers".

"This guy is a phenomenon. He is the number one of number ones," Roberto Negrisolo was quoted by Il Romanista.

Current Liverpool keeper Simon Mignolet has lost his place to Loris Karius in recent weeks, with the latter starting in the 5-0 Champions League win at Porto on Tuesday.

Sky Sports football expert Jamie Carragher urged the Reds to sign a world-class goalkeeper after Mignolet made several errors in December.
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Postby kazza » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:51 am

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:37 pm wrote:
Eagle » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:31 pm wrote:If players want to leave then they'll leave. It happened with the likes of Rush and Keegan and it happened with Coutinho.  And it will happen again and again it won't be because we want the money. We just need to get better at brining in quality players and we've certainly improved in this area.


Well for a start we used the departures of Keegan and Rush to drastically re-model the side, replacing 1 outgoing quality player with 2 or 3 incoming ones. The club actually signed Ian Rush's direct replacement (John Aldridge) while Rush was still at the club, the pair played together for 3 or 4 months before Rush left for Juventus, that's called forward planning, these days we roll the dice (the club knew Coutinho was leaving for months but didnt lift a finger to even attempt to replace him).
There is no way on earth Coutinho would have been allowed to leave mid season under Bob Paisley, Joe Fagan or a young Kenny, and when the club did finally let him leave his replacement would have been here the moment he left, if not before.
That's why we won so much back then and why we have won so little in recent years, back then the club made good decisions, lots of them, these days we let our best players go then gamble.


I understand your point of view and frustration with the Coutinho saga but to say they did not lift a finger to replace him is making a very big assumption, we don't know what was going on behind the scenes. I cannot believe that the club did not try to 1. Convince him to stay and 2. Look for a replacement. Who knows, maybe you are right. All I know is that since Klopp has come we have seen the club buy good players on a consistent basis and happily spend when called on to do so. We compete with Mega rich clubs with endless supplies of money which we never had to in the olden days, yet you are using those days as an example of how it should be done. We did not actually have South American players back in the Paisley/Fagan days to complain at the weather, all we had were players that thought English weather was normal. Since the Bosman ruling football changed in terms of player  power and that is how it is going to stay, Steven Gerrard types will be rarer than players staying on their feet when they feel contact.

All I know is that despite feeling your frustration about not winning the title for so long I do see a significant improvement in the squad, way we play and Klopp's eye for a player and I see enough to feel hopeful of the future. The club is financially stable (more stable than ManUre since they carry more debt than any club in the world) and they are improving at a rate which seems sustainable, we are certainly not getting fleeced by the owners.

We are a young squad and I'd say the future is bright, if Coutinho does not want to be a part of it for whatever reason then onwards and upwards for us. One thing is certain and that is we are better defensively now than we were and that is what we all wanted.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:34 pm

The club knew for months he was going, when FSG first arrived they spoke about admiring Arsenal's business model, they didn't say we love what United have done over the last 20 years dominating English football and winning trophy after trophy they specifically spoke about Arsenal qualifying for the CL year after year on a relatively modest budget. If I recall correctly they even went and met with David Dein who was Arsenal's CEO at the time.
Don't get me wrong we'll always have a decent side under FSG, after all for their business model to work the team has got to be good enough to finish in the top 4 on a regular basis (which is their goal) but look at our net spend over the past 4 years, is that the net spend of a team desperately trying to win the title or is that the net spend of a club trying to master the art of regularly qualifying for the CL with the minimum of outlay?
The club could have easily put its foot down with Coutinho, certainly until the summer, there was no way on earth that Phil would have went on strike with a World Cup coming up in the summer, not to mention a CL draw that basically gave us a bye into the QF's, as Barca said though they were actually shocked how keen we were to sell Phil.
With our net spend we could have afforded to go and get Lemar in January and keep Phil, don't forget premier league clubs are getting an absolute fortune from Sky and BT, we are slap bang in the middle of that new TV deal that showered clubs with cash. That's what a club with genuine ambition would have done, the likes of United would have told Phil that he is going nowhere for at least 6 months then brought in VVD and Lemar in January for £175m.
Once again this club put itself in a position to kick on but preferred to cash in instead of going looking for trophies.
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Postby parchpea » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:26 pm

Club using journalists to back away from Alisson, suggestion being Roma will over charge because they let us have Salah too cheap.

Thing is the 34m for Salah is now 134m easy so 65m for Alisson is covered if you really want an elite keeper.

The real reason is FSG dont see a profit in the player and the 65m will deprecate, they always must see a buck in it down the road to do the deal.
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:54 pm

Stop torturing yourself guys,the summers a long way off. 



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Postby maguskwt » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:23 am

aCe' » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:15 pm wrote:
maguskwt » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:50 am wrote:
Reg » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:17 am wrote:How many clubs NEED to spend £100m on a attacking player from a vanity point of view? RM, Barca, PSG, maybe City... that's all.

So if RM come offering £150m or £200m for Mo in 12 months we might very well sell because we know we can replace him with a young, hungry up and coming Naby Keita style for 40-50-60 million. LFC don't need to spend £100m, young guns WANT to come to us, we don't need to go pay top shelf prices.

Reg, you do know it's not easy to find younger players that can develop into the real deals. We've been doing that for a decade. The recent successes in players like Mane, Salah, Firmino is down to Klopp. That's where I give alot of credit to Klopp. Naby Keita im today's market is easily worth 100 million. Again credit must go to Klopp and the executives for sealing that deal in advance!


Why is Keita worth 100 mill ? Not a single good reason for that imo.

Only point I have on this whole transfer business is this, the likes of City and Utd buy players who are ready to step in and help them challenge for titles. It doesnt matter if you are 22, 29, or 31 and it doesnt matter what the price tag is. If there is a player who is available who improves the starting 11 they'll be interested in signing them. Our approach is completely different and puts us at a disadvantage on a number of different fronts. Over the past 3 seasons, those 2 sides have pulled away from us in terms of readiness to do whatever it takes to go out and compete and the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal are now trying to catch up.

Even if we finish 2nd this season and Tottenham finish 3rd, the chances of both of us winning a title have taken a massive hit with what Utd and City are doing imo.

The minute Bale, Kane, Neymar, etc. become available they'll look to snatch them and pull further away.

erm have you been living under a rock mate?... it's only the market rate. When a classy CB costs 75 million pounds and a classy goalkeeper's valuation is 70 million pounds, tell me honestly why RB Leipzing won't be looking for 100 million pounds for Keita next summer if we already hadn't secured his signature.
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Postby damjan193 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:28 pm

Actually mags, I think the £50-60m we paid for Keita was already the inflated price. In normal circumstances (if we can call it that) he would have cost around £30m. So I agree with ace, Keita might be a good player but he's done nothing to prove that he's a £100m player, yet.

Salah was the one we got "cheap", despite the fact we broke our own transfer record for him. Had we not signed him so early in the transfer window, Roma would have asked at least double of what we paid.
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