Fowler_E7 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:39 pm wrote:Not sure what everyone is so happy about we have left ourselves woefully short yet again, our centre options are quite frankly pitiful and we have written off any chance of winning the league, I like the signings we have made but we simply had to buy a centre back and going with Lovren as a starting centre back is criminal and will cost us
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:46 am wrote:I don't think our defensive woes would have been solved by 1 CB.
Carragher pointed out the other day that our defensive record against the top sides is actually pretty good, as he said when our players know they have to be on their toes they defend well but against the so called lesser sides they become lackadaisical and sloppy.
As he said against the Watford's of this world our central defenders often get carried away and start joining in attacks when they don't need to and what's worse they even get ahead of the ball which is crazy for CB's away from home. He said our CM's aren't much better, they seem to vacate the midfield when they feel like as well.
He reckons it's great to play free flowing football but you still need to keep you basic shape and back your team mate up like we do against the better sides. As we showed Sunday keeping your shape doesn't stop you playing exhibition stuff.
IMO he has got a point, you never see Matip hanging around the edge of the opposition box against City or Chelsea.
Jurgen said after the match against Arsenal that the reason we defended so well was because Mane and Salah got back to help our fullbacks, he seems to think our defensive woes are largely down to organisation and shape and maybe that's why he didn't go for anyone else when the VVD deal didn't materialise.
Doeboy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:01 pm wrote:We just seem to posture in most windows. Show we are making moves, trying to do deals for players, lots of spin in the media but apart from the odd good deal, we don't seem to get anywhere. All this talk of once we qualify for the CL, it will enhance our attractiveness to players etc and the best we can do is Oxlade Chamberlain, a guy who struggled to get into the Arsenal, never really shown anything and with that has question marks over his injury record.
I'm looking at the whole window and really thinking wtf. Feel like the wool has been pulled over the fans eyes to me. Think we can agree that the ***** in the media pretty much leads to a dead end
aCe' » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:23 pm wrote:ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:46 am wrote:I don't think our defensive woes would have been solved by 1 CB.
Carragher pointed out the other day that our defensive record against the top sides is actually pretty good, as he said when our players know they have to be on their toes they defend well but against the so called lesser sides they become lackadaisical and sloppy.
As he said against the Watford's of this world our central defenders often get carried away and start joining in attacks when they don't need to and what's worse they even get ahead of the ball which is crazy for CB's away from home. He said our CM's aren't much better, they seem to vacate the midfield when they feel like as well.
He reckons it's great to play free flowing football but you still need to keep you basic shape and back your team mate up like we do against the better sides. As we showed Sunday keeping your shape doesn't stop you playing exhibition stuff.
IMO he has got a point, you never see Matip hanging around the edge of the opposition box against City or Chelsea.
Jurgen said after the match against Arsenal that the reason we defended so well was because Mane and Salah got back to help our fullbacks, he seems to think our defensive woes are largely down to organisation and shape and maybe that's why he didn't go for anyone else when the VVD deal didn't materialise.
I agree that one defensive signing wouldnt make us a good defensive side overnight. No one was arguing that. I dont think many would argue that Van Dijk would make us defend counters better or that he'd improve our performances against the top sides (I think he would improve us especially against a side like Utd with their size).
The main reason the Van Dijk deal would have improved us is his defnding of crosses. We've conceded more from crosses than any other top6 sides. If I'm not mistaken, only 4 sides in the whole division conceded more from crosses than we have. We needed a leader at the back and someone who could dominate aerially. He's also a better all round defender than both Matip and Lovren.
As things stand, we have 3 established CBs in Matip, Lovren, and Klavan, and Joe Gomez is our 4th choice. Remember, we had Lucas getting picked ahead of Klavan in many occasions last season because Klavan is a liability against any forward with a bit of pace. Gomez has barely played in 2 years and has very little experience playing at a high level.
Thats what we're taking into the 4 competitions we're in. And that was our most glaring weakness going into this season.
aCe' » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:23 pm wrote:ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:46 am wrote:I don't think our defensive woes would have been solved by 1 CB.
Carragher pointed out the other day that our defensive record against the top sides is actually pretty good, as he said when our players know they have to be on their toes they defend well but against the so called lesser sides they become lackadaisical and sloppy.
As he said against the Watford's of this world our central defenders often get carried away and start joining in attacks when they don't need to and what's worse they even get ahead of the ball which is crazy for CB's away from home. He said our CM's aren't much better, they seem to vacate the midfield when they feel like as well.
He reckons it's great to play free flowing football but you still need to keep you basic shape and back your team mate up like we do against the better sides. As we showed Sunday keeping your shape doesn't stop you playing exhibition stuff.
IMO he has got a point, you never see Matip hanging around the edge of the opposition box against City or Chelsea.
Jurgen said after the match against Arsenal that the reason we defended so well was because Mane and Salah got back to help our fullbacks, he seems to think our defensive woes are largely down to organisation and shape and maybe that's why he didn't go for anyone else when the VVD deal didn't materialise.
I agree that one defensive signing wouldnt make us a good defensive side overnight. No one was arguing that. I dont think many would argue that Van Dijk would make us defend counters better or that he'd improve our performances against the top sides (I think he would improve us especially against a side like Utd with their size).
The main reason the Van Dijk deal would have improved us is his defnding of crosses. We've conceded more from crosses than any other top6 sides. If I'm not mistaken, only 4 sides in the whole division conceded more from crosses than we have. We needed a leader at the back and someone who could dominate aerially. He's also a better all round defender than both Matip and Lovren.
As things stand, we have 3 established CBs in Matip, Lovren, and Klavan, and Joe Gomez is our 4th choice. Remember, we had Lucas getting picked ahead of Klavan in many occasions last season because Klavan is a liability against any forward with a bit of pace. Gomez has barely played in 2 years and has very little experience playing at a high level.
Thats what we're taking into the 4 competitions we're in. And that was our most glaring weakness going into this season.
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:46 pm wrote:Doeboy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:01 pm wrote:We just seem to posture in most windows. Show we are making moves, trying to do deals for players, lots of spin in the media but apart from the odd good deal, we don't seem to get anywhere. All this talk of once we qualify for the CL, it will enhance our attractiveness to players etc and the best we can do is Oxlade Chamberlain, a guy who struggled to get into the Arsenal, never really shown anything and with that has question marks over his injury record.
I'm looking at the whole window and really thinking wtf. Feel like the wool has been pulled over the fans eyes to me. Think we can agree that the ***** in the media pretty much leads to a dead end
Oh come on mate Salah has come in and made a difference already and Alex O/C is similar to Mane in the sense that he is someone Jurgen had earmarked back in Dortmund days as a player who would fit his system perfectly.
We have also secured the services of a top, top class CM for next year and once Coutinho comes back our front 4 will be ripping teams to shreds.
Okay the window hasn't been perfect but tbh I knew we weren't going to sign VVD the other week when someone posted a link to that Southampton forum, once I saw the vitriol spewed by their fans towards this club and this city i knew it was politically impossible for Southamptons board to sell him to us. Of course you still hope but in my heart of hearts i accepted that deal wasn't going to happen a while ago.
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