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Postby bunglemark2 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:44 pm

I presume Markovic has gone nowhere?
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Postby Doeboy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:52 pm

Fowler_E7 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:39 pm wrote:Not sure what everyone is so happy about we have left ourselves woefully short yet again, our centre options are quite frankly pitiful and we have written off any chance of winning the league, I like the signings we have made but we simply had to buy a centre back and going with Lovren as a starting centre back is criminal and will cost us


Totally agree. I think people are just seeing it as a successful window because it now looks like Coutinho is definitely staying and everyone is breathing a sigh of relief. Also yes, getting Naby Keita next summer is great, but that doesn't have no bearing on this season and it wouldn't have been a hard deal to complete seeing as he has a clause and Klopp convinced him to come here

If you look at our business in the cold light of day,  Salah aside, it's pretty average/***** at best for a club challenging on 4 fronts and the CL. Salah is an excellent signing and helps the first team straight away. However apart from him, the likes of Ox, Solanke and Robertson don't particularly strengthen us to the level we want/need to be imo. Solanke and Robertson are supplementary kind of signings you bring in and hope can blossom, not one's I'd be comfortable relying on at this stage. 

After all the hoo-ha with Klopp saying at the beginning of the window a lot of the ground/hard work had been done, overall our business makes pretty poor reading imo. Don't know who is responsible, but this ballbag Michael Edwards can do one and get replaced by a proper negotiator/director imo
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Postby Doeboy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:01 pm

We just seem to posture in most windows. Show we are making moves, trying to do deals for players, lots of spin in the media but apart from the odd good deal, we don't seem to get anywhere. All this talk of once we qualify for the CL, it will enhance our attractiveness to players etc and the best we can do is Oxlade Chamberlain, a guy who struggled to get into the Arsenal, never really shown anything and with that has question marks over his injury record.

I'm looking at the whole window and really thinking wtf. Feel like the wool has been pulled over the fans eyes to me. Think we can agree that the ***** in the media pretty much leads to a dead end
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Postby leeroy74 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:14 pm

Look at all the toys been thrown out of the prams... Some ungrateful spoilt little so and so's on here today. The Ox, Salah and Robertson will all feature in the first team, we've kept hold of one of the hottest properties in world football at the moment despite barca and their big money, we've got solanke who looks half decent prospect and secured Kieta for next year. All that aside without the Ox and Kieta we're currently sitting second in the league after demolishing arsenal...

The stress of being a Liverpool fan hey?
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Postby aCe' » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:23 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:46 am wrote:I don't think our defensive woes would have been solved by 1 CB.
Carragher pointed out the other day that our defensive record against the top sides is actually pretty good, as he said when our players know they have to be on their toes they defend well but against the so called lesser sides they become lackadaisical and sloppy.
As he said against the Watford's of this world our central defenders often get carried away and start joining in attacks when they don't need to and what's worse they even get ahead of the ball which is crazy for CB's away from home. He said our CM's aren't much better, they seem to vacate the midfield when they feel like as well.
He reckons it's great to play free flowing football but you still need to keep you basic shape and back your team mate up like we do against the better sides. As we showed Sunday keeping your shape doesn't stop you playing exhibition stuff.
IMO he has got a point, you never see Matip hanging around the edge of the opposition box against City or Chelsea.
Jurgen said after the match against Arsenal that the reason we defended so well was because Mane and Salah got back to help our fullbacks, he seems to think our defensive woes are largely down to organisation and shape and maybe that's why he didn't go for anyone else when the VVD deal didn't materialise.


I agree that one defensive signing wouldnt make us a good defensive side overnight. No one was arguing that. I dont think many would argue that Van Dijk would make us defend counters better or that he'd improve our performances against the top sides (I think he would improve us especially against a side like Utd with their size).

The main reason the Van Dijk deal would have improved us is his defnding of crosses. We've conceded more from crosses than any other top6 sides. If I'm not mistaken, only 4 sides in the whole division conceded more from crosses than we have. We needed a leader at the back and someone who could dominate aerially. He's also a better all round defender than both Matip and Lovren.

As things stand, we have 3 established CBs in Matip, Lovren, and Klavan, and Joe Gomez is our 4th choice. Remember, we had Lucas getting picked ahead of Klavan in many occasions last season because Klavan is a liability against any forward with a bit of pace. Gomez has barely played in 2 years and has very little experience playing at a high level.

Thats what we're taking into the 4 competitions we're in. And that was our most glaring weakness going into this season.
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Postby ken_job » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:24 pm

I think we've done some really great business this summer and Klopp and FSG have done well to resist the Coutinho advances. I believe Robertson will grow into a valuable first team player and that Salah has the potential to be great! Also credit to the team for signing Keita up for next season. However we are all aware that our weakness is not attack but defense. Klopp admitted last season that we would need to strengthen our defence in the summer and we have failed completely in this department. VVD didn't happen for whatever reason but in my opinion we should have signed a CB and DM as absolute priority regardless of the VVD deal. We could be sitting here today with Michael Keane and Greg Krychowiak for an additional outlay of £25M. VVD deal aside these two players for me represent a massive missed opportunity and our squad would be so much stronger with them (or similar) signed up. Even if we had managed to get VVD we could have still signed Keane and had 4 decent CBs. Klavan could have been moved on and Gomez sent out on a PL loan deal. Right now if Lovren or Matip get injured or even suspended for a couple of matches we are fooked. We have no reliable cover at CB and for all the matches we will be playing we really could have done with a specialist DM for squad rotation. Sorry for stating the obvious
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Postby ken_job » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:29 pm

Agree with Ace. I was typing and didn't see ur post mate
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:46 pm

Doeboy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:01 pm wrote:We just seem to posture in most windows. Show we are making moves, trying to do deals for players, lots of spin in the media but apart from the odd good deal, we don't seem to get anywhere. All this talk of once we qualify for the CL, it will enhance our attractiveness to players etc and the best we can do is Oxlade Chamberlain, a guy who struggled to get into the Arsenal, never really shown anything and with that has question marks over his injury record.

I'm looking at the whole window and really thinking wtf. Feel like the wool has been pulled over the fans eyes to me. Think we can agree that the ***** in the media pretty much leads to a dead end


Oh come on mate Salah has come in and made a difference already and Alex O/C is similar to Mane in the sense that he is someone Jurgen had earmarked back in Dortmund days as a player who would fit his system perfectly.
We have also secured the services of a top, top class CM for next year and once Coutinho comes back our front 4 will be ripping teams to shreds.
Okay the window hasn't been perfect but tbh I knew we weren't going to sign VVD the other week when someone posted a link to that Southampton forum, once I saw the vitriol spewed by their fans towards this club and this city i knew it was politically impossible for Southamptons board to sell him to us. Of course you still hope but in my heart of hearts i accepted that deal wasn't going to happen a while ago.
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Postby redshade » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:18 am

aCe' » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:23 pm wrote:
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:46 am wrote:I don't think our defensive woes would have been solved by 1 CB.
Carragher pointed out the other day that our defensive record against the top sides is actually pretty good, as he said when our players know they have to be on their toes they defend well but against the so called lesser sides they become lackadaisical and sloppy.
As he said against the Watford's of this world our central defenders often get carried away and start joining in attacks when they don't need to and what's worse they even get ahead of the ball which is crazy for CB's away from home. He said our CM's aren't much better, they seem to vacate the midfield when they feel like as well.
He reckons it's great to play free flowing football but you still need to keep you basic shape and back your team mate up like we do against the better sides. As we showed Sunday keeping your shape doesn't stop you playing exhibition stuff.
IMO he has got a point, you never see Matip hanging around the edge of the opposition box against City or Chelsea.
Jurgen said after the match against Arsenal that the reason we defended so well was because Mane and Salah got back to help our fullbacks, he seems to think our defensive woes are largely down to organisation and shape and maybe that's why he didn't go for anyone else when the VVD deal didn't materialise.


I agree that one defensive signing wouldnt make us a good defensive side overnight. No one was arguing that. I dont think many would argue that Van Dijk would make us defend counters better or that he'd improve our performances against the top sides (I think he would improve us especially against a side like Utd with their size).

The main reason the Van Dijk deal would have improved us is his defnding of crosses. We've conceded more from crosses than any other top6 sides. If I'm not mistaken, only 4 sides in the whole division conceded more from crosses than we have. We needed a leader at the back and someone who could dominate aerially. He's also a better all round defender than both Matip and Lovren.

As things stand, we have 3 established CBs in Matip, Lovren, and Klavan, and Joe Gomez is our 4th choice. Remember, we had Lucas getting picked ahead of Klavan in many occasions last season because Klavan is a liability against any forward with a bit of pace. Gomez has barely played in 2 years and has very little experience playing at a high level.

Thats what we're taking into the 4 competitions we're in. And that was our most glaring weakness going into this season.


I was going to mention something similar like that. Van Dijk would have helped 100% with crosses, set plays etc.. How many times do we see a cross whipped in and our CBs lose the aerial battle. That is one of our main weaknesses that we really need to sort out. We know Van Dijk can't help out in every duel but surely would've made a difference.
Last edited by redshade on Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:26 am

aCe' » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:23 pm wrote:
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:46 am wrote:I don't think our defensive woes would have been solved by 1 CB.
Carragher pointed out the other day that our defensive record against the top sides is actually pretty good, as he said when our players know they have to be on their toes they defend well but against the so called lesser sides they become lackadaisical and sloppy.
As he said against the Watford's of this world our central defenders often get carried away and start joining in attacks when they don't need to and what's worse they even get ahead of the ball which is crazy for CB's away from home. He said our CM's aren't much better, they seem to vacate the midfield when they feel like as well.
He reckons it's great to play free flowing football but you still need to keep you basic shape and back your team mate up like we do against the better sides. As we showed Sunday keeping your shape doesn't stop you playing exhibition stuff.
IMO he has got a point, you never see Matip hanging around the edge of the opposition box against City or Chelsea.
Jurgen said after the match against Arsenal that the reason we defended so well was because Mane and Salah got back to help our fullbacks, he seems to think our defensive woes are largely down to organisation and shape and maybe that's why he didn't go for anyone else when the VVD deal didn't materialise.


I agree that one defensive signing wouldnt make us a good defensive side overnight. No one was arguing that. I dont think many would argue that Van Dijk would make us defend counters better or that he'd improve our performances against the top sides (I think he would improve us especially against a side like Utd with their size).

The main reason the Van Dijk deal would have improved us is his defnding of crosses. We've conceded more from crosses than any other top6 sides. If I'm not mistaken, only 4 sides in the whole division conceded more from crosses than we have. We needed a leader at the back and someone who could dominate aerially. He's also a better all round defender than both Matip and Lovren.

As things stand, we have 3 established CBs in Matip, Lovren, and Klavan, and Joe Gomez is our 4th choice. Remember, we had Lucas getting picked ahead of Klavan in many occasions last season because Klavan is a liability against any forward with a bit of pace. Gomez has barely played in 2 years and has very little experience playing at a high level.

Thats what we're taking into the 4 competitions we're in. And that was our most glaring weakness going into this season.


Defending corners/set pieces is definitely an Achilles Heel of ours no two ways about it but something from last Sunday that got lost in Karius's shaky display was how well he punched. Karius is definitely better than Mingolet at coming off his line and punching the ball and when he did it he didn't half help the back 4 out.
Things like fullbacks blocking crosses and keepers coming off their line and punching can help a lot.
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Postby Santa » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:12 am

A lot of wingers blaming the club for a lacklustre transfer window, which we have broken our transfer record in 2 successive months Is, imo rather unfair.

Sure not signing a centre defender besides pinning all hoped on getting VVD is criminal but to call AOC and Salah a squad player is just silly. Klopp is NOT looking at just a starting 11 but his starting 18 because of the kind of football that he wants his team to play, which will put a lot of stress especially on the midfielders and the front 3, so having 5 or 6 players each that can play different positions in both midfield and forward is as important as signing just a player who could walk straight into the starting 11.

The inability of signing VVD and Lemar, as well as Keira for this season is not totally our fault. As far as Coutinho is concerned I'm indifferent. If I am in charge I would have cashed out £150M on him (as i cannot accept dis-loyalty and indiscipline among these supremely well paid athletics) and bid high for both Lemar and VVD...but that's just me.

All in, I would rather be in our position than to be in either Wagner or Conti's shoes. Window is closed now let's look forward to see how we fare in both CL and PL. If we do well and play exciting football then the next window will be even more interesting indeed
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Postby parchpea » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:12 am

Our own transfer record is low in this market and we havent addressed defensive and goalkeeping issues that have haunted us since Rodgers reign.

Fundamentally that is down to Klopp who only wanted VVD and is unwilling to find an upgrade elsewhere despite sitting on the sidelines for 2 years watching our defence fall over each other under pressure, and bewildered from ariel bombardment.

If he can turn the defence around fine but I dont see it and we will suffer a lot of pain putting increasing pressure on our albeit excellent attack.
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Postby The Raven » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:17 am

Just so im clear.

Last season well end there of we had one thing to do really this summer. Sort the CB issues out at the club. Now the window is closed and we did nothing other than ***** up and let the one man deemed capable of fixing that problem slip though our fingers.

What ever happened with VVD needs looking at

As it stands till Jan if lovern or matip get injured or suspended we are starting gomez or and worse case with Klavan in the CL

Until tonight im still not convinced they wont sell phil
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Postby Doeboy » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:58 am

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:46 pm wrote:
Doeboy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:01 pm wrote:We just seem to posture in most windows. Show we are making moves, trying to do deals for players, lots of spin in the media but apart from the odd good deal, we don't seem to get anywhere. All this talk of once we qualify for the CL, it will enhance our attractiveness to players etc and the best we can do is Oxlade Chamberlain, a guy who struggled to get into the Arsenal, never really shown anything and with that has question marks over his injury record.

I'm looking at the whole window and really thinking wtf. Feel like the wool has been pulled over the fans eyes to me. Think we can agree that the ***** in the media pretty much leads to a dead end


Oh come on mate Salah has come in and made a difference already and Alex O/C is similar to Mane in the sense that he is someone Jurgen had earmarked back in Dortmund days as a player who would fit his system perfectly.
We have also secured the services of a top, top class CM for next year and once Coutinho comes back our front 4 will be ripping teams to shreds.
Okay the window hasn't been perfect but tbh I knew we weren't going to sign VVD the other week when someone posted a link to that Southampton forum, once I saw the vitriol spewed by their fans towards this club and this city i knew it was politically impossible for Southamptons board to sell him to us. Of course you still hope but in my heart of hearts i accepted that deal wasn't going to happen a while ago.


Yep Salah is a top signing and is a cracking bit of business. Tying up Keita for next season is also great news but doesn't help us going into this season with a CL campaign. However, just feel underwhelmed.

If Southampton don't want to sell VVD, fair enough, not much we can do but surely there are alternatives out there? For example, spurs have vertongen and alderweirald yet go and spend on that sanchez guy from Ajax who looks the part. Similarly Chelsea sign rudiger, a German international. That's two teams who had solid defensive records from last season who have gone out and spent decent money on defenders. Just shows there are options out there apart other than VVD. I've got no problem with Gomez being the younger up and coming CB but Klavan isn't someone I'd have that much confidence in if either Matip or Lovren sustain a long term injury.

Defence is the key to sustaining a real challenge. I love our attacking play but so far we've played a poor Crystal Palace and and an Arsenal team that is in a mess. I remember last season and how we started on fire but the fall is still very vivid in my mind. Maybe i'm worrying a bit too much but i'm not convinced w'eve ironed out those chinks in our armour.

I just don't know about Ox. Chelsea were close to signing Barkley for similar money last night and I know out the two who is the better footballer. Yes Everton would never sell to us but the fact that Ox and Barkley could have gone for the same money is mind boggling really.

Solanke and Robertson are signings we have to see how they get on. No real experience or pedigree to talk of so can't judge them yet but also can't blame people who are less than enthused that those two make up 50% of our incoming transfer dealings.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:54 pm

IMO mate I reckon Jurgen thinks most of our defensive woes are down to problems with the system, yes he wanted Van Dijk but I don't think he saw him as a panacea who would solve all our defensive issue's on his own.
Van Dijk is good in the air but he can't be everywhere at once, our team has got to learn how to defend crosses as a unit.
I think our back 4 are probably carrying the can for something that is a team problem. We don't defend corners with 4 men, everyone is back.
Gary Neville made a good point the other day, he pointed out how many headers Emre Can won in our area and how good he was at picking up his man at corners/free kicks, if we went onto the pitch with 6 Emre Can's to help our back 4 the number of goals we'd concede from corners would decrease significantly.
Our problems run deeper than 1 centre half mate, it's a team thing.
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