Liverpool FC Forum

JC_81 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:00 pm wrote:Are Chelsea's centre backs really better than ours though?

Cahill is average imo. Azpilicueta is a right back. Luiz is, and always has been dodgy.

The difference is they have a class keeper, they play 3 centre backs not 2, and they are screened by Kante and Matic.

For me, stick Lovren, Matip and Sakho in there as their 3 centre halves and it probably strengthens them.

There not. Stick Matip and Lovren in for 2 out of Azpilicueta, Cahill and Luiz, with Kante and Matic ahead of them, and they would ensure an equally impressive defensive record if not better.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:39 pm wrote:

JC_81 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:00 pm wrote:Are Chelsea's centre backs really better than ours though?

Cahill is average imo. Azpilicueta is a right back. Luiz is, and always has been dodgy.

The difference is they have a class keeper, they play 3 centre backs not 2, and they are screened by Kante and Matic.

For me, stick Lovren, Matip and Sakho in there as their 3 centre halves and it probably strengthens them.

Agree about Lovren, Matip and Sakho mate, I think they have the potential to be a fine back 3. Incidentally i think playing in a 3 could even be Can's best position too. Must admit though I've got my heart set on that Greek lad from Roma who's name escapes me atm, he looks like the second coming of Tommy Smith.

Both Chelsea and Spurs play a back three and no surprise both teams have conceded the least in the league and sitting 1st and 2nd. Think it is something we should look at potentially.It would free up Clyne and i would even feel comfortable playing Moreno at LWB as the 3 man central defense would give him cover and will free him up defensively (his weakest point) somewhat

Doeboy » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:01 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:39 pm wrote:

JC_81 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:00 pm wrote:Are Chelsea's centre backs really better than ours though?

Cahill is average imo. Azpilicueta is a right back. Luiz is, and always has been dodgy.

The difference is they have a class keeper, they play 3 centre backs not 2, and they are screened by Kante and Matic.

For me, stick Lovren, Matip and Sakho in there as their 3 centre halves and it probably strengthens them.

Agree about Lovren, Matip and Sakho mate, I think they have the potential to be a fine back 3. Incidentally i think playing in a 3 could even be Can's best position too. Must admit though I've got my heart set on that Greek lad from Roma who's name escapes me atm, he looks like the second coming of Tommy Smith.

Both Chelsea and Spurs play a back three and no surprise both teams have conceded the least in the league and sitting 1st and 2nd. Think it is something we should look at potentially.It would free up Clyne and i would even feel comfortable playing Moreno at LWB as the 3 man central defense would give him cover and will free him up defensively (his weakest point) somewhat

Yep, agree 100% mate. I was a fan of 3 at the back under Brendan mainly because it gave us the extra man in midfield where I felt we were weak. If anyone looks born to play wingback its Moreno too.

I read somewhere that Klopp is not a fan of back 3. He's always played the traditional flat back four in his team...

I have to admit I have never been a massive fan of a back 3 myself.

As things stand, Chelsea will be the first team to win the Premier League playing a back 3. It just hasn't worked that well in this league for some reason but always seems popular in Italy, which is where Conte has had success before obviously.

Nothing wrong with a back 4 and undoubtedly at some point Chelsea will hit a sticky patch or change manager and they'll go back to it, or someone will work out how to nullify their system, everyone will copy and they'll have to abandon the back 3.

Part of our issue, keeper and defensive mid positions aside, is playing wing backs with 2 centre halves not 3, which is essentially what we do in possession.

Our system needs tweaked and we need a couple of personnel changes, but keeper, left back and defensive mid are more pressing than centre half when everyone is fit. Back up centre halves are another story and we do need more depth.

It all starts with the keeper for me. Migs isn't good enough and wouldn't get anywhere near the starting 11 of Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham or Man City.  The same goes for Lovern...

A back 4 is fine, but we need to add depth to the defence. That means a  new CB and LB who will provide a step up in quality. Milner has done fine this season, but he'll never complete a full season with European footie. I mean, look at him now, he's shattered. And that's from played once a week. Moreno has to be shipped out and we need some quality in that area.

We also need a new keeper and defensive midfielder, because we've never really replaced Hamman and he left years ago....

Talk of Rakitic and money for Courtinho, would you take it?

Wrong place to be discussing this but its all about the system and style of play rather than formation and personnel for me. You look at a side like Madrid who have Ramos, Varane, Carvajal and Marcelo + a decent keeper + 2 of the best CMs in the world + a decent DM and they are still poor defensively.

Our side is set up to keep possession and press teams from higher up. Bar our keeper, 2 CBs and defensive mid, all our players dont have defending as a priority. The likes of Chelsea, Spurs and even Utd play with 2 holding midfielders and dont usually have both full/wingbacks going forward without adequate cover. They also dont rely anywhere near as heavily as we do on possession (you need a higher defensive line with that) or on pressing opposition (which leads to midfielders being out of position). Lovren and Matip are both good enough imo; you could improve on all of Clyne, Milner, and Henderson but that wouldnt necessarily improve our defensive record.

If Klopp wants to continue with the same system and style of play, we'd probably be better off buying forwards and midfielders (to make us more effective against the smaller sides), and a goalkeeper unless Mignolet impresses until end of season.

kazza » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:43 pm wrote:Talk of Rakitic and money for Courtinho, would you take it?

No, if they want him they will have to pay for him, no part exes.
If we do lose Phil we need to go out and get Mahrez, he'd be a decent replacement.

I remember when they offered Sanchez plus cash for Suarez.. that got his hopes up for a big transfer, then Sanchez decides he wants to Join Arsenal instead.

Sounds like we are going to try a Sakho plus cash offer for van Dijk. If the likes of Man City and Chelsea don't go in for him I could see that one happening.

kazza » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:43 pm wrote:Talk of Rakitic and money for Courtinho, would you take it?

Not a bad swap. Rakitic is a quality player but it would depend on the alternatives. I'd be tempted tho

kazza » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:43 pm wrote:Talk of Rakitic and money for Courtinho, would you take it?

Depends on how much cash... maybe Rakitic + 40 million would be acceptable. Rakitic is 29, Coutinho is 24. Coutinho still has his peak and whole career ahead of him. Rakitic is probably at his peak.

By the way those who criticize Coutinho, have you stopped to think that he's still only 24?

JC_81 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:02 pm wrote:I have to admit I have never been a massive fan of a back 3 myself.

As things stand, Chelsea will be the first team to win the Premier League playing a back 3. It just hasn't worked that well in this league for some reason but always seems popular in Italy, which is where Conte has had success before obviously.

Nothing wrong with a back 4 and undoubtedly at some point Chelsea will hit a sticky patch or change manager and they'll go back to it, or someone will work out how to nullify their system, everyone will copy and they'll have to abandon the back 3.

Part of our issue, keeper and defensive mid positions aside, is playing wing backs with 2 centre halves not 3, which is essentially what we do in possession.

Our system needs tweaked and we need a couple of personnel changes, but keeper, left back and defensive mid are more pressing than centre half when everyone is fit. Back up centre halves are another story and we do need more depth.

I'm not sure what Chelsea plays but the back 3 was popular in 90's German national teams in the form of 5-3-2/3-5-2. Back then the Germans play with a libero. The libero was popular among German teams because Beckenbauer used that position to great effect when he was playing. From defense he would push on to attack and the other teams would not know how to mark him... well it helps that he is very elegant and skillful on the ball. I think there is no libero player at this day and age anymore...

Klopptomaniac » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:53 am wrote:

kazza » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:43 pm wrote:Talk of Rakitic and money for Courtinho, would you take it?

Not a bad swap. Rakitic is a quality player but it would depend on the alternatives. I'd be tempted tho

No way ,Rakitic was always a side kick...Wouldn't consider him for a swap+Cash deal he is just not good enough.