Liverpool FC Forum

by **Dundalk** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:15 pm

Squad of 25 with at least 8 homegrown players from next season plus they are talking about coming down hard on teams with financial problems

Link

Under the rules, clubs will have to name a squad of 25 players over 21 before the season begins. Eight of those players must be "home-grown", in that they must have been developed for at least three years by an English or Welsh club before their 21st birthday. They can name a second, limitless list of players under 21 and both lists can be resubmitted at the end of the January transfer window.

Liverpool will be among the worst-hit clubs. According to their website, they have 56 registered professionals with 23 battling for 17 spots for non-home-grown players within the squad under the new rules.

by **JC_81** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:20 pm

Apart from the coming down hard on clubs in financial trouble I don't think that'll affect us too badly mate.

We'll have Pacheco, Nemeth, Insua, Carra, Gerrard, Ayala all counting as 'homegrown', ie trained by the club. Johnson counts as trained in the country. We can also include Spearing, Kelly or one of the others to fill the quota.

Beyond that our first team squad (in terms of people who actually get a game in the first team, and not simply registered players) is probably smaller than all of our rivals.

We'll not be worst affected. What are Chelsea going to do??

by **Dundalk** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:24 pm

From reading, I think foreign players have to be with you after the age of 21 for 3 years to be considered home grown, so does that rule Insua out straight away?

by **Dundalk** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:33 pm

All 20 Premier League members also agreed to adhere to a set of financial reporting rules designed to protect the viability and sustainability of the clubs.

"They will all have to annually submit accounts and future financial information," said Scudamore.

"At all times the board of the Premier League will be applying a test which basically says this: can the club fulfil its fixtures, pay off its creditors when they are due and also to meet obligations to the Premier League's contracts and partners?

"If the board believe a club is at risk of not meeting those obligations, it has to then step in and agree a budget for the running of that club. Any transfers can be embargoed.

"It's absolutely crucial that these clubs are run as ongoing viable concerns. These financial rules apply immediately.

"This is tied in, and we passed the rule during the summer, to a 'fit and proper person test'. At our club meeting last week, the clubs absolutely endorsed our position of not linking expenditure to income."

LINK

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:28 am

What a load of old sh*t.

How can they possibly justify embargoing a club because the owner(s) choose to pay for things with loans rather than savings?

Typical meddling c*nts. ;no

by **Sabre** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:55 am

A rule must have a purpose.

What's the purpose of these rules?

by **Redman in wales** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:06 am

john craig wrote:Apart from the coming down hard on clubs in financial trouble I don't think that'll affect us too badly mate.

We'll have Pacheco, Nemeth, Insua, Carra, Gerrard, Ayala all counting as 'homegrown', ie trained by the club. Johnson counts as trained in the country. We can also include Spearing, Kelly or one of the others to fill the quota.

Beyond that our first team squad (in terms of people who actually get a game in the first team, and not simply registered players) is probably smaller than all of our rivals.

We'll not be worst affected. What are Chelsea going to do??

I cant find any written reports, but when sky sports news was covering it this morning they put up (what they thought) what the 25 man squads for each team.

As far as I can remeber it was some thing like

Liverpool - 8
Chelsea - 8
Man utd - 12
.
.
.
Aston villa had the most in the high teens, 18 or 19

----------

So far I have:

Liverpool FC Squad - 2009-2010 (in order of squad number)

Diego Cavalieri
Glen Johnson
Alberto Aquilani
Daniel Agger
Steven Gerrard
Fernando Torres
Andriy Voronin
Albert Riera
Fabio Aurelio
Yossi Benayoun
Sotirios Kyrgiakos
Dirk Kuyt
Ryan Babel
Javier Mascherano
Lucas Leiva
Emiliano Insua
Jamie Carragher
David Ngog
Pepe Reina
Jay Spearing
Philipp Degen
Damien Plessis
Krisztian Nemeth
Nabil El Zhar
Stephen Darby
Martin Kelly
Martin Skrtel
Andrea Dossena
Daniel Sanchez Ayala
Mikel San Jose Dominguez

Pacheco and Ayala wont count as they wont be 21 yet.
El Zhar wont count as he wasn't trained in this country for 3 years before he was 21 (we bought him when he was 20) - same goes for Plessis (signed when he was 19)

by **Greavesie** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:28 am

so that means Rafa might stop signing nothing 19 and 20 year olds?

by **JC_81** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:56 am

I still don't think the '8 homegrown' rule will be a problem for us.

We need 8 players who have trained in England/Wales before the age of 21. They don't actually have to be 21 or over now as I think some of you think, but if they're still under 21 and haven't been with an English club for 3 years then they can be added to the squad over and above the 25 players.

We definitely have the English players counting as 'homegrown' - Gerrard, Carragher, Johnson. Then the English lads who have come through the Academy - Spearing, Kelly, Irwin, Darby.

Insua (joined Jan '07, so will be here 3 years by Jan 2010. He also turns 21 in Jan 2010, so depending on whether he joined before or after his birthday in Jan '07 might determine whether he qualifies or not. Also his initial deal was a loan deal, so I have a bad feeling that Insua isn't going to count.)

Nemeth (joined summer '07, but he also turns 21 in January, which means he won't have been here 3 years before the age of 21, he's NOT going to count.)

Pacheco (joined summer '07 and still only 18, by next summer he will have been trained by us for 3 years before the age of 21, so he will count as homegrown)

Ayala (joined summer '07, and doesn't turn 21 til 2011. By next season, he will have been here for 3 years before turning 21, so he will count as homegrown)

Hansen (Danish keeper joined in 2006 and he's still only 19. He'll count as homegrown)

Gulacsi (joined in 2008 so won't count)

San Jose (joined Aug 2007, but turns 21 in May 2010, so he'll be a couple of months shy of qualifying as homegrown)

Bouzanis (Aussie keeper signed summer 2007 and is still 19, he'll qualify as homegrown)

So in summary by next season we can pick our 8 from:

Gerrard
Carragher
Johnson
Spearing
Darby
Irwin
Kelly
Pacheco
Ayala
Hansen
Bouzanis

There may also be a few lads out on loan that might count when they come back, but basically we'll be fine. 3 of these are regular starters, another has started in the Premiership this season, Pacheco I think is a special talent and will be ready next season. We can use one of the young keepers as the third keeper on the squad list.

It does mean the likes of Ngog, Plessis, El Zhar, San Jose and perhaps even Nemeth and Insua might have a problem. They don't count as homegrown, but does Benitez think any of them are good enough to fill one of his only 17 places for non-homegrown players over 21? As we have thought for a while, that reserve squad needs some serious trimming by the start of next season.

by **Redman in wales** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:21 pm

I think its the double negatives in the quotes that threw me off:

"As of next season clubs will be required to have a squad named of up to 25 players, of which no more than 17 can be over the age of 21 and not home grown," Scudamore said.

"The definition of home grown is trained for three years under the age of 21 by somebody in the English and Welsh professional system.

"Clubs will have to declare their 25 at the end of August when the window shuts and then again at the end of January."

Players who are aged under 21 are eligible over and above the limit of 25 players per squad.

----

so does that mean up to 17 (out of the 25) can be over 21 and not home grown - there's no "OR" - its "AND"

So I presumed that the remain 8 had to be over the age of 21 AND homegrown (ie trained in the UK for at least 3 years before the age of 21

- I'm getting a bit confuddled here :kungfu:

by **JC_81** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:42 pm

Redman in wales wrote:So I presumed that the remain 8 had to be over the age of 21 AND homegrown (ie trained in the UK for at least 3 years before the age of 21

- I'm getting a bit confuddled here

As I understand it mate, the remaining 8 don't need to be over 21. I think that if you have trained for 3 years in England and Wales under the age of 21 then you qualify as homegrown - it doesn't matter if you're 29 or 19, as long as you fit that criteria.

It seems that there's also a third group though. Players who are under 21 and do NOT fit that criteria can be added over and above the list of 25. So if the law were in effect this season for example, we could register Plessis and Nemeth and they wouldn't count as either the 'homegrown 8' group or as the '17 over-21s but not homegrown' group. But next season they would have to be registered in the group of 17.

by **yolz** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:45 pm

It's a load of :censored:

that's what it is
How can anyone expect such far-reaching rules to be implemented over just one season
There has to be a period of at least 3 years before the rule can implemented officially
Clubs have to be given the time to adjust and make the proper modifications IMHO

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:34 pm

I am not taking any of the details about the rules as gospel until I see the official legaleese wording of the rules in an official document.

To me, it sounds like these are the same as the CL rules with one small change, there is no difference between home grown and club trained, but even that I am not sure of. It could be just that Scudamore or whoever did not want to over complicate and confuse reporters with the small details and specifics of how which players count as what.

For the record, UEFA counts being home grown as playing 3 seasons before you turn 21, but you count the season in which you turn 21. OR 36 months at the club before you turn 21.

Also, UEFA counts being currently U21 as being U21 at the time the year starts (January 1) in the season. This season starts in 2009, so anyone that was U21 at the start of 2009 will count as U21 for the 09-10 season. Meaning that there will be 22 year olds playing in May that will be on U21 lists.

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:46 pm

Further, UEFA's rules say that to count as U21, you also have to have spent the previous 2 years at the club. There don't seem to be any quotes about that, but I would imagine that would be part of the rule.

If this rule was in place this season, it would mean that El Zhar and Degen would be made redundant, thats it, and then the rest of the squad would be the same. We would still have some open slots to buy more "English" players with if we had the money, but we wouldn't really have to say goodbye to any important cogs in the team. Further, I don't think we will be toooo deterred from buying foreign, as long as its a class player. We could still easily say goodbye to N'gog, Dossena, and Voronin (and probably the Greek fella) if we found better high quality foriegn replacements, and we would be giving them up essentially for no cost to the team. It would be all gain.

**I think the one exception would be Cavalieri. I think he serves no purpose taking up a foreign slot and would want to see him replaced with a domestic keeper in order to free up another slot**

IMO, there is no reason to pay ransom prices for English players just to fill out the squad. Especially while Johnson, Carra, and Gerrard are still around. How crucial is your 21st best player going to be to your operations anyway?

NOTE: I am not saying we should avoid buying English players. I am just saying that we shouldn't buy them for the sake of it. They should be players who we would want to have bought anyway.

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