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Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby red till i die!! » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:49 pm

The Raven » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:42 am wrote:Ive been away from the board for along time, but i had to come here to give my 2p worth.

The board have played a total blinder so far. So they got grief last season for not putting the money up to help klopp, even in Jan when we needed it most. SO they promise the summer will be BIG. VVD, 50m? and Nabby 60? bids rejected tapping up and so on.......so we are to believe we have in excess of 100m? to spend? Now we are told that klopp has deemed that no one......no one.......is good enough but those two players and if we cant get them them we dont get anyone.

So now we have little phil who will push his move though, to the tune of 100m so now we have 200m. So here comes the "to late in the window to replace him" excuses

In short we get hoodwinked into thinking FSG tried to spend but just couldnt. While they walk away with a cool 200m saved. This is without offloading some dead wood to balance the money spent on MO and Robertson 

Purely my take. I hope im wrong and things change but with the window looming and phils "back pain" i dont see it.


I don't really hold Klopp responsible at all but do get frustrated with his only those players will improve us approach. That could be a dig at the owners in that I don't want the players off your list. I think he is becoming frustrated and beginning to realise just exactly what their version of backing is. Last year they failed on his top targets and this year it looks similar. He has basically admitted as well that if the owners want to sell then they will and he will just get on with what he has.
Klopp has the pedigree to win this league but he won't with the way things are going. In his 3rd season he is still using 70% of Rodgers team and they are not suited to how he wants to play. He has to use a LB that he wouldn't use for the best part of 2 years, The one they bought him didn't even make the squad for the Watford game,He Could lose his best player and if Can doesn't sign in the next week or so then he is gone as well. He doesn't even have a recognised striker in the team when his teams have always had one. It is testament to his quality as a manager that we got 4th but how much longer will he put up with this shyte. He could walk away if we slide down the table next year citing that he gave it his all and he can't take us any further. That would be a nightmare scenario or even worse him taking a better job.
The annual FSG letter isn't that far off so it will be hands up time again and we have learned from our mistakes but it isn't our fault other clubs don't want our money. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.....
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Postby The Raven » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:14 pm

Its just to perfect for them isnt it.

They will claim nothing is their fault, Targets unreachable, Phil forced move even tho we tried our best to keep him, no time to find replacement. Reeks of making a packet load of cash. Klopps "owners decide" comment is a strange one.

They sell phil, and god forbid Can to and dont replace them they will have pushed the fan base to far. I suspect a massive backlash against them when the window closes if it goes down that way
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Postby devaney » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:24 am

Raven it is very easy to know where you are coming from. I'm just very glad your somewhat depressing predictions didn't materialise.

Just maybe this very annoying Coutinho saga has done LFC and FSG a lot of good. It takes serious balls to walk away from £140m. I'll be honest if I had been in their position I would have found it almost impossible not to take the money. FSG have been heavily criticised for their greed and lack of commitment since they bought the club. If this very serious  "fk off" Barca doesn't cause a few people to have a rethink then I don't know what will. Klopp and FSG were adamant that Coutinho wouldn't be sold all summer. At times I struggled to believe them. SHOVING ONE UP CHELSEA AND TELLING BARCA TO STUFF THEIR MONEY HAS MADE A DIFFICULT WINDOW JUST A LOT MORE ENJOYABLE !! Well done Klopp and FSG - RESPECT !!
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years (10 years
are in brackets)
LFC £255m (£467m)
Everton £38m (£287m)
Arsenal £645m6 (£925m)
Spurs £510m (£541m)
Chelsea £788m (£1007m)
Man City £307m (£1012m)
Man United £702m (£1249m)
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Postby The Raven » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:31 pm

Im shocked they didnt sell him really really shocked, to the point i was dreading checking the news waiting for it.

My mistrust of them has lessened somewhat, barca being told to go away was good for LFC as a club. We will see how it works out with phil.

I would be very interested to find out if we went in for lemar regardless of phil. If we did thats balls out spending.
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Postby Franky000 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:37 pm

A part of me hopes that Klopp will dump him in the reserves for the rest of the season, but if we're going to make something of this season, we're better off ''keeping our enemies close". I just hope the fans don't turn on him - the best thing we can do is to let him know what he'll be missing when he's finally gone.
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Postby devaney » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:34 pm

Fans are fickle including me !! All will be forgiven when he blasts in a winning goal from 30 yards :laugh:

Let's face it everything was the agents fault  :laugh:
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years (10 years
are in brackets)
LFC £255m (£467m)
Everton £38m (£287m)
Arsenal £645m6 (£925m)
Spurs £510m (£541m)
Chelsea £788m (£1007m)
Man City £307m (£1012m)
Man United £702m (£1249m)
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Postby The Raven » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:17 pm

They must have talks this week.

A simple, "you can go after the world cup" should sort him out
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Postby C-R » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:48 am

This again, but seems to be gathering momentum this time around....

Liverpool owners slap £1BILLION price tag on club as leading financier begins takeover talks !!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/ ... e-11303882
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Postby kazza » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:48 pm

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/fsg-how-much-liverpools-owners-13739148

“It’s too early to say what we’re going to do but obviously we’re here to win and we’ll do whatever is necessary.”

They were the words of John W Henry as he emerged from the office of lawyers Slaughter and May in London as the new owner of Liverpool Football Club.


Next Sunday, it will be seven years since he uttered them in 2010, seven years since Liverpool embarked upon their second period of American ownership under the guise of New England Sports Ventures, later to morph into Fenway Sports Group (FSG).


John W. Henry delivers a statement in the offices of the law firm Slaughter and May to announce his purchase of Liverpool with Martin Broughton, Ian Ayre and Christian Purslow
Nobody - one would imagine - would argue that the second American reign at Anfield has not been considerably better than the first, though bettering the damaging civil war of the Hicks and Gillett era is to damn with faint praise.

And it would be unnecessarily churlish about a period of undoubted stability for the club, one which has seen Anfield finally expanded by 8,500 extra seats with the new Main Stand, with plans well advanced for a new first team training facility at Kirkby and with the club led by one of Europe’s elite managers.

A relatively newly recruited chief executive in Peter Moore has the sort of business CV which would have recruitment specialists hyper-ventilating - Microsoft, EA Sports, Reebok, Sega et al.

“It’s too early to say what we’re going to do but obviously we’re here to win and we’ll do whatever is necessary.”

They were the words of John W Henry as he emerged from the office of lawyers Slaughter and May in London as the new owner of Liverpool Football Club.


Next Sunday, it will be seven years since he uttered them in 2010, seven years since Liverpool embarked upon their second period of American ownership under the guise of New England Sports Ventures, later to morph into Fenway Sports Group (FSG).


John W. Henry delivers a statement in the offices of the law firm Slaughter and May to announce his purchase of Liverpool with Martin Broughton, Ian Ayre and Christian Purslow
Nobody - one would imagine - would argue that the second American reign at Anfield has not been considerably better than the first, though bettering the damaging civil war of the Hicks and Gillett era is to damn with faint praise.

And it would be unnecessarily churlish about a period of undoubted stability for the club, one which has seen Anfield finally expanded by 8,500 extra seats with the new Main Stand, with plans well advanced for a new first team training facility at Kirkby and with the club led by one of Europe’s elite managers.

A relatively newly recruited chief executive in Peter Moore has the sort of business CV which would have recruitment specialists hyper-ventilating - Microsoft, EA Sports, Reebok, Sega et al.

FSG have got many things right at Liverpool and will do so again just this week as the Centenary Stand is renamed in honour of the club legend that is Kenny Dalglish.

But it is the last three words of John Henry’s 2010 phrase which will see supporters diverge in their opinion on whether this ownership group has been as successful as it should have been.

“Whatever is necessary”. To win.

Winning so far in the FSG-era at Anfield has amounted to just one Carling Cup in 2012. And that got that same club legend in Dalglish the sack.

There have been close calls of course. The 2012 FA Cup under Dalglish again, the 2015 Europa League and Capital One finals under Jurgen Klopp and of course most heartbreakingly of all, the 2013/14 League campaign under Brendan Rodgers.

In the English game though “whatever is necessary” to win normally amounts to one thing. Spending.

The amount invested into playing squads has, more or less, offered an accurate correlation to how successful a club will be, for all that Leicester City offered the most crazy exception to prove the rule just two years ago.

So have FSG really done “whatever is necessary” to make Liverpool successful?

Here come the numbers.

Whatever an ownership group do throughout a club, there are probably two issues which above all others will decide their fate with the supporters - the price and availability of tickets alongside investment in the transfer market.

While FSG have certainly had their problems on ticketing issues - witness the infamous walk-out against Sunderland in early 2016 - that tends to affect just a small proportion of supporters, namely those who regularly attend games at Anfield.

For the vast majority of fans spread around the globe, the more pressing issue is the strength of the playing squad and the investment into it.

After taking over in October 2010, it was the January window of 2011 which was the first opportunity for FSG to begin their path towards doing “whatever is necessary” to bring success to Liverpool.

Net spend on players in each of the succeeding seven years

2011: Ins £109.95m Outs £79.1m Net spend £20.8m

2012: Ins £30.23m Outs £14.3m Net spend £15.93m

2013: Ins £65.3m Outs £28.7m Net spend £36.6m

2014: Ins £116.85m Outs £72.875m Net spend £43.975m

2015: Ins £88.5m Outs £76.02m Net spend £12.488m

2016: Ins £69m Outs £86.5m Net spend -£17.5m

2017: Ins £88.9m Outs £47.25m Net spend £41.65m

Total: Ins £568.73m Outs £404.745m

FSG net spend on players in seven years - £163.985m

Average per year - £23.426m


A few provisos to mention of course. The exact value of player transfers can often remain a mystery so these figures occasionally relate to the best guestimates available, using the figures registered by the respected LFChistory.net website.


Luis Suarez of Liverpool celebrates after scoring his hat-trick during the Barclays Premier League match between Norwich City and Liverpool at Carrow Road on April 28, 2012 in Norwich, England. (Photo by John Powell/Liverpool FC via Getty Images)
Luis Suarez for instance was originally named as a £75m sale by Liverpool but later information suggested the amount picked up by the club was actually £65m, the figure we use here.

Many transfers also often include add-on clauses which can increase their value and Liverpool have been involved in plenty of such deals, including Roberto Firmino’s move from Hoffenheim and Mohamed Salah’s move from Roma.

In all cases the highest possible value for the move has been taken (eg Firmino at £29m) both in buying and selling players except where it is obvious the higher figure was never reached.

The figures for the latest transfer window also do not include the agreement to buy Naby Keita next season - which would add upwards of £60m to FSG’s investment - or the value of Dominic Solanke which has yet to be decided by a tribunal.

Man United were the most boring team at Anfield all season - but Klopp's big game players can make it different this time
Nevertheless, the figures are pretty stark.

In seven years of owning Liverpool, FSG have a net spend on players of just short of £164m or an average of £23.426m per year.

The highest spending years were in 2014 (the likes of Mario Balotelli, Dejan Lovren, Adam Lallana) and this summer (Mo Salah, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain).

That investment is well short even of the often-quoted minimum £30m seen as available to invest in each window, a figure which supporters have tended to see as simply not enough anyway.

Context of course is everything.

So how does FSG spend at Liverpool compare to other clubs in the top six?

Like for like comparisons are again difficult given FSG arrived in an October but the figures for the other clubs in the top six since 2010/11 season give a pretty obvious explanation as to why Liverpool have still not bridged the gap to the very top of the league.

Net spending of key rivals since 2010/11

Man City - £718.05m

Man United - £540.05m

Chelsea - £351.8m

Arsenal - £179.8m

Spurs - A remarkable £20.5m profit

In simple terms, Sheikh Mansour-backed Man City’s net spend on players is almost four and half times that of FGS at Liverpool. At Man United the Glazers are spending three and a third times more, despite servicing the huge debt they used to help buy the club. Chelsea and Abramovich are spending more than double.

Arsenal’s spending has been roughly on a par with Liverpool’s while Spurs have actually made a small profit on players, helped by big returns on the likes of Gareth Bale, Kyle Walker and Luka Modric.


These figures of course do not tell us whether FSG are good or bad owners of Liverpool, or whether fresh weekend reports of a possible takeover might be something desirable or not.

There are too many variables to factor in, many of them highly subjective, for that. You will have your own opinion on that.

But they do perhaps raise some doubt as to whether the owners have fully delivered on doing “whatever is necessary” to bring that longed-for success to Liverpool.
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Postby Eagle » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:15 am

These takeover rumours always surface in the press during international breaks. I wonder why!
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Postby Franky000 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:03 pm

John Henry personified, explaining why he's so afraid of success....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMA_UKX0IZU
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Postby red till i die!! » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:37 pm

Lol I wonder if he had actual input to the script.  This video is the one where peter wrote the software that identifies moneyball players.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGf6LNWY9AI

"this guy should cost 3 million dollars a year...we can get him for 237 thousand."


That's the bottom line with FSG  :nod
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Postby Franky000 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:29 pm

red till i die!! » Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:37 pm wrote:
"this guy should cost 3 million dollars a year...we can get him for 237 thousand."



"I think we're onto a real winner with this one, nobody will see him coming..."

"Well I've never heard of the guy, but let's see what this Aspas guy is made of..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaXlXjOVAko
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:25 pm

Franky000 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:29 pm wrote:
red till i die!! » Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:37 pm wrote:
"this guy should cost 3 million dollars a year...we can get him for 237 thousand."



"I think we're onto a real winner with this one, nobody will see him coming..."

"Well I've never heard of the guy, but let's see what this Aspas guy is made of..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaXlXjOVAko


Scored more goals this season than Ronaldo in La Liga and only 5 goals behind Messi ,most fans could see he had talent but was underused.

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Postby kazza » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:06 am

Credit to them for backing the manager, every transfer seems to break our previous record. We will have a very good team after years of mediocrity. We used to compete with mid table teams for players now we compete with the best teams and get our man.  :buttrock
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