Job too big for Rodgers?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Is the job too big for Rodgers and last season was a flash in the pan down to Suarez carrying us?

Yes
43
55%
No
28
36%
Not sure
7
9%
 
Total votes : 78

Postby johnbarnes » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:51 pm

The_Rock » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:34 pm wrote:FSG are known to be prudent businessman. That's why I find it hard to belief that they still backed Rodgers in the summer.

Don't they know by doing so..they are throwing millions down the drain.

If only they had tried not to be too smart (ie....unearthing the next mourinho) and got a proven DOF and Manager (not a f**king youth coach masquerading as a manager).... I am pretty sure with $300M spent, we would have a team capable of matching up to the elite teams in Europe.

1)Fans are not staying for the final whistle
2)Asian tours were not sold out
3)We are in danger of not-becoming relevant

All the above, and the owners are putting on more seats in the stadium.

FSG shouldn't take the fans for granted. Its not as if they are off the hook, as long as they keep pumping money for transfer. 

In a way Rodgers was kinda lucky the 6-1 happened on the last game of the season. If it was the 37th game, and the last game was at anfield (against any opposition), you can bet your bottom dollar, that the atmosphere would have been toxic. People would have been singing for rafa and/or klopp....

So a message to FSG....end the misery. You are owners of the 8th richest club in the world. We have won more European cups than any English team. We even have won more European cups than Barcelona. Stop going cheap with youth team coaches doubling up as head coaches.

We have a more than decent team. And it is being ruined by an utterly out of depth "ex-u18 reading youth-coach".


FSG will wake up!
$$$ speak...
Our sponsors are banking merchants, they will have more power over a managerial shift than many would like to think.
Finance is the reason why they are all in the game and as far as they're concerned the game will only get bigger!
Jigsaw pieces are clearly being put together. The appointment of BR was fresh, innovative and brave.
Pride needs to be swallowed in some cases in order for them to cut their loses.
They are the kings of swing. So when it happens, it'll all just be part of their grand master plan.
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Postby johnbarnes » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:13 pm

sgs » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:38 pm wrote:It would indeed be a harsh decision to base it on one defeat.

For me its rather a pattern of established weaknesses that have persisted for four years, some of which he does not look like he can sufficiently address...


All Football managerial sackings are based on one defeat. Hindsight then looks back at the whole picture.
Remember SAF? He was that ONE game away from being sacked. it was Mark Robbins who kept that ONE game at bay. The rest is his story.
I agree with you that it is a pattern that has been consistent for the past 4 years.

If only Rafa had been given such a lengthy piece of rope. If only. (just thinking allowed again).
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Postby damjan193 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:57 pm

What bugs me the most is how weak mentally we've become. There have been periods when we've been bad in the past as well, but we've rarely seen the team give up and capitulate. With players like Stevie and Carra you could bet your life that we were going to fight to the end no matter the odds. Getting hammered by a team wasn't an option back then, but yesterday conceding 3 against West Ham at Anfield wasn't anything unusual. I've always laughed at teams like Spurs, Newcastle and Arsenal for having zero mental strength but now we've become just like them.
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Postby johnbarnes » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:11 pm

damjan193 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:57 pm wrote:What bugs me the most is how weak mentally we've become. There have been periods when we've been bad in the past as well, but we've rarely seen the team give up and capitulate. With players like Stevie and Carra you could bet your life that we were going to fight to the end no matter the odds. Getting hammered by a team wasn't an option back then, but yesterday conceding 3 against West Ham at Anfield wasn't anything unusual. I've always laughed at teams like Spurs, Newcastle and Arsenal for having zero mental strength but now we've become just like them.


Mental strength comes from quality management. Under Rafa we had one of the strongest teams mentally I've ever seen play. The towel was rarely thrown in.
Needless to say, that in our glorious heyday our mental capacity was second to known. Only a change of management will change our mentality and mental strength.
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Postby red till i die!! » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:19 pm

damjan193 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:57 pm wrote:What bugs me the most is how weak mentally we've become. There have been periods when we've been bad in the past as well, but we've rarely seen the team give up and capitulate. With players like Stevie and Carra you could bet your life that we were going to fight to the end no matter the odds. Getting hammered by a team wasn't an option back then, but yesterday conceding 3 against West Ham at Anfield wasn't anything unusual. I've always laughed at teams like Spurs, Newcastle and Arsenal for having zero mental strength but now we've become just like them.


We are so mentally weak its unbelievable considering rodgers inherited a side that appeared in 2 cup finals in a single season. Maybe we need to hire someone like Steve Peters :laugh:
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Postby redshade » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:20 pm

I wonder if BR knows how to solidify his back four? Can't remember if he had a strong back four at Swansea or not.
Its obvious his trying to adapt to a different system compared to his attacking barca style. I don't think he will ever be successful in that.
Its going to be a long season im affraid.

When Houllier was in charge of us the first thing he did was sort out the defense. He snapped Hyypia and Henchoz who became beasts for us.
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Postby red till i die!! » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:21 pm

johnbarnes » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:11 pm wrote:
damjan193 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:57 pm wrote:What bugs me the most is how weak mentally we've become. There have been periods when we've been bad in the past as well, but we've rarely seen the team give up and capitulate. With players like Stevie and Carra you could bet your life that we were going to fight to the end no matter the odds. Getting hammered by a team wasn't an option back then, but yesterday conceding 3 against West Ham at Anfield wasn't anything unusual. I've always laughed at teams like Spurs, Newcastle and Arsenal for having zero mental strength but now we've become just like them.


Mental strength comes from quality management. Under Rafa we had one of the strongest teams mentally I've ever seen play. The towel was rarely thrown in.
Needless to say, that in our glorious heyday our mental capacity was second to known. Only a change of management will change our mentality and mental strength.


Well put  :nod
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:06 pm

JC_81 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:27 pm wrote:I think it's harsh that after one defeat Klopp's name has been getting thrown about.

For those of you praying for Klopp, how much do you actually know about him?

7 seasons at Dortmund - 6th, 5th, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 7th. They tailed off spectacularly over the last few seasons.

They lost players yes, but those brought in over the past few seasons were nowhere near the quality of those that left. Does that raise questions about Klopp's recruitment?

Actually most of Dortmunds star players were brought in while klopp was there - Hummels, Lewandowski, Reus, Gundogan etc. But who signed them?? Klopp regards himself as 'head coach' and not a manager. His title has always been very clearly stated. Does that mean that if he did come in he would also have to work with the transfer committee? Perhaps he would be happy to as someone who seemingly sees his role as a coach rather than being overly involved in the player recruitment side. Is this what we want?

I would also question whether the guy is burnt out as a manager. He's only 47 but saw his team rise to the peak of European football before seeing his stars picked off by his main rivals in front of him. His team had been on the slide for 3 seasons and last season he simply looked a broken man as Dortmund slid down the league.

Whatever my views on Rodgers are, if he went I would have serious reservations about Klopp.


It's not one defeat though JC we have been going backwards for 12 months, it's not even the fact we are going backwards it's the manner of our regression, just look at how we finished last season, we actually looked disinterested, we looked like a side that had stopped playing for the manager.
As for Klopp only the other day Franz Beckenbauer tipped him to become Bayern Munich's manager after Guardiola, i think the fact his biggest rivals want him tells you how highly rated he still is.
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Postby damjan193 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:54 am

johnbarnes » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:11 pm wrote:
damjan193 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:57 pm wrote:What bugs me the most is how weak mentally we've become. There have been periods when we've been bad in the past as well, but we've rarely seen the team give up and capitulate. With players like Stevie and Carra you could bet your life that we were going to fight to the end no matter the odds. Getting hammered by a team wasn't an option back then, but yesterday conceding 3 against West Ham at Anfield wasn't anything unusual. I've always laughed at teams like Spurs, Newcastle and Arsenal for having zero mental strength but now we've become just like them.


Mental strength comes from quality management. Under Rafa we had one of the strongest teams mentally I've ever seen play. The towel was rarely thrown in.
Needless to say, that in our glorious heyday our mental capacity was second to known. Only a change of management will change our mentality and mental strength.

Agreed, to an extent. It has a lot to do with the players as well and you can't ask for mental strength from a team that has an average age of 22 (or something silly like that). It's a men's game but all we have is a bunch of kids. What I'd give for a Carra or a Hyypia right now...
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:52 am

I don't think you need to be a radical thinker ,just a rational one ,this job was always going to be such a huge  task for a manager with a barely minimal grasp on tactics. We need a manager who can outmanoeuvre the Billic's and the Pulis's of this league ,by having a plan for the visit of those managers and their respective football teams ,not one that professes to having a blueprint that he stated was written in stone and one he swore he would never deter from.  ???

I mean when he first walked into this club he promised the fans he would play progressive innovative football and make visiting Anfield the longest 90 minutes of an opponents season ,and as far as I'm aware all of the above has been scrapped completely.

The football we're playing just eradicates any chance of our game progressing ,its turgid soulless ,and racked with fear ,and its drying up the atmosphere and that heightened sense of anticipation that used to make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up just walking in the place.

Witnessing that legendary stadium practically emptying before the 80th minute mark was saddening ,it was like its lifeblood was slowly seeping from its heart ,we the fans give that place life ,every other week we breathe life into it ,because without us its just a shell ,and without a manager we believe in its becoming more and more ordinary by the minute ,and ordinary is somewhere I don't even want to visit.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:36 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:52 am wrote:I mean when he first walked into this club he promised the fans he would play progressive innovative football and make visiting Anfield the longest 90 minutes of an opponents season ,and as far as I'm aware all of the above has been scrapped completely.


That's to key to it imo, if Rodgers was sticking to his original philosophy and trying to build a team around young talented players like Ilorri, Markovic, Coutinho, Firmino etc then you'd take losses like Saturday's on the chin because you could at least see what he's trying to do.
We are just all over the place at the moment though - he's sacked his coaching staff, thrown his 180 page dossier in the bin, brought back players who's performances haven't warranted a return to the first team, we are changing formation 2 and 3 times a game, one minute players are on the verge of leaving the club next they are in the starting XI, he made Milner VC after being at the club 5 minutes etc etc......there's seemingly no rhyme and reason to it all, it just looks like we are making it up as we go along.
I think a lot has been going on behind the scene's between him and this transfer committee and I think he has lost his way, I think internal club politics have clouded his judgement (certainly in terms of player selection) and I think the club and Brendan need a fresh start.
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Postby RedAnt » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:48 pm

Maybe Rodgers has played too much Footie Manager. He probably picked Hendo and Milner because they have good influence on FM. And when he's stood on the line he could simply be shrugging his shoulders thinking "I've gone all out attack and hard tackling. Not sure there's much else I can do."
I've often thought his approach has been FM-esque.
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:19 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:36 am wrote:
RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:52 am wrote:I mean when he first walked into this club he promised the fans he would play progressive innovative football and make visiting Anfield the longest 90 minutes of an opponents season ,and as far as I'm aware all of the above has been scrapped completely.


That's to key to it imo, if Rodgers was sticking to his original philosophy and trying to build a team around young talented players like Ilorri, Markovic, Coutinho, Firmino etc then you'd take losses like Saturday's on the chin because you could at least see what he's trying to do.
We are just all over the place at the moment though - he's sacked his coaching staff, thrown his 180 page dossier in the bin, brought back players who's performances haven't warranted a return to the first team, we are changing formation 2 and 3 times a game, one minute players are on the verge of leaving the club next they are in the starting XI, he made Milner VC after being at the club 5 minutes etc etc......there's seemingly no rhyme and reason to it all, it just looks like we are making it up as we go along.
I think a lot has been going on behind the scene's between him and this transfer committee and I think he has lost his way, I think internal club politics have clouded his judgement (certainly in terms of player selection) and I think the club and Brendan need a fresh start.


That's it precisely mate ,we could take the losses if signs existed of us returning to those philosophies ,and producing high intensity pressing football. I mean we can point to possessing one of the most exciting strikers in world football at that time ,but we still had to work hard denying our opponents the time on the ball and pressing the play with an intensity that at times left you breathless. Suarez was a phenomenon ,but he was just a cog in a  truly exciting team to watch. It seems that mind set has been completely dispensed with ,and he's intent to fill the team with workmanlike players that look rigid and bereft of
any inclination to inspire inventive and imaginative football.
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:51 pm

Just to add further to the above appraisal Wenger has stuck almost steadfastly to his belief as to how the game should be played ,his teams play intricate football which sees them produce some startlingly innovative passages of play ,its based on possession of the football and the fella has never finished outside the top four ,and yet some sections pillory him for adhering to these philosophies ,and some eulogise about the mans love of beautiful football. I'm a football romantic and the latter appeals to me rather than the pragmatic and staged ,football to me has always been about the expressive. 

I honestly believe the manager thought he could bring this to Liverpool ,and in shelving this he is doing a disservice to both the club and its fans ,and more importantly to himself and those beliefs he once held.

Its time the manager  moved on ,as he's been the sole architect in his own demise ,frankly he's cheated himself out of greatness ,and he's lost the trust of the fans who would have handed him that.
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Postby johnbarnes » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:21 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:51 pm wrote:
Its time the manager  moved on ,as he's been the sole architect in his own demise ,frankly he's cheated himself out of greatness ,and he's lost the trust of the fans who would have handed him that.


I always felt this ^^^^
BR was 3 games from being a Legend, Hero, Messiah and a very good man. HE BLEW IT!
7 points needed from 3 games to guarantee his status and took only 4.
The Mancs know he blew. Chelski know he blew it. The Gooners know he blew it. SKY Sports know he blew. The Bookies know he blew it.
Why can't LFC just expect HE BLEW IT! And move on...
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